Stealth Units?

[ChupaReaper]

Can this be done if not a new feature request...
I'd like to have units hidden from none allied players when standing still with a radius given on how close to an enemy/enemy sight before it is detected, in fact a stealth detection property would be good for anti-stealth/scout units. If this could be used through effects/emanations that would be better still as I could then work on cloaking units hiding an entire army which would make scouts all the more important even in none fog of war matches.

[wciow]

Pretty sure theres a ticket for this somewhere an Trac but its unlikely any time soon 

[John.d.h]

I can't seem to find a ticket for it, but I know it's been discussed.  I seem to remember someone saying it would be pretty difficult/complicated, and just think of the AI nightmare that would cause.  Would be nice, but I'm not holding my breath.

[silnarm]

There was a ticket on the old bugzilla tracker for cloaking or some such, we lost a bunch of stuff there

Will re-add it...

Pretty sure theres a ticket for this somewhere an Trac but its unlikely any time soon

I can't seem to find a ticket for it, but I know it's been discussed.  I seem to remember someone saying it would be pretty difficult/complicated, and just think of the AI nightmare that would cause.  Would be nice, but I'm not holding my breath.

There will soon be some changes regarding the way I select what features to work on, I think GAE is floundering a little because we're just a bunch of programmers... None of us mod. So, for myself at least, I intend not to work on whatever feature grabs me the most, but whatever feature people using the engine want/need the most.

While input from anyone will be gladly accepted, I intend to give extreme bias towards those that are demonstrably working on mods for GAE.  There'll be a new sticky topic within a couple of weeks, but I know a few things that I'm fairly certain everyone wants now, so getting particle systems for skills / effects / emanations is going to be my current focus.

Cheers.

[ChupaReaper]

Particles for those would look very nice, units could have blank effects just for the particles too, this request would be nice but yea not a priority at the moment, I've units at the minute that would suit stealth really well and would give them more distinction but they work effectively enough for now as it is.

[Omega]

There will soon be some changes regarding the way I select what features to work on, I think GAE is floundering a little because we're just a bunch of programmers... None of us mod. So, for myself at least, I intend not to work on whatever feature grabs me the most, but whatever feature people using the engine want/need the most.

A noble choice silnarm that the community must thank you for. You have done much to help GAE, and we all are grateful!

This is a bit offtopic, I'm sorry, but you haven't made another topic yet and I'm reluctant to flood the thread. Particle effects are naturally a must. I think secondly, lua's abilities should be expanded. There seems to be more scenarios than mods for GAE at the moment. However, I also believe that titi's map format (which will need an 8 player minimum) should be implimented eventually. I can't wait for the ability to add colored console messages or whatever it was that serve as dialogue! One bug I noticed in ALL versions of glest (Vanilla, MG, and GAE) is that a widescreen resolution stretches all the images, including the title background, the logo, the icons, etc; However, nothing else like the minimap or models are effected, just the images.


Concerning stealth, it would be fairly complex. The AI would have to be programmed to not attack units under stealth (but attack them when they reappear), as well as to use them properly as a recon or scouting unit, stealth buildings shouldn't count as a normal building (ie: we don't have to defeat it to win the game), the stealth unit would have to be invisible to other players in multiplayer, and also couldn't appear on the minimaps of other players (but on yours so that you don't forget about the unit or "lose" it). The units would also have to come out of stealth if in combat (discussion: Can they go back into stealth after combat, ie: after 20 seconds of non-combat). Not to mention there would need to be an XML variable to store whether a unit is stealth or not.

[ChupaReaper]

Perhaps something could be added to the stop skill regarding stealth.
Also is there a way to make buildings that don't need to be destroyed to win, at the minute in my mod every unit of a wall must be destroyed! This is kinda off topic but then again as mentioned would be important regarding stealth buildings.

[wyvern]

I had a makeshift idea for the stealth thing once, but it only worked against a human player, I took the original crossbowman and gave him the morph skill, the morph skill only changed his outward appearance, there was snow, which was dappled with black, grassy, desert, and one more that I don't remember, when I played against a human player it sort of worked, unless his units automatically attacked.
I don't know if this is on topic or helpful but I just felt like mentioning it.

[ChupaReaper]

Using the morph skill if there was some form of stealth field that could work

[wyvern]

Using the morph skill if there was some form of stealth field that could work

the closest to stealth is as I just mentioned, having the unit texture changing, maybe you could make it turn invisible.

[silnarm]

One bug I noticed in ALL versions of glest (Vanilla, MG, and GAE) is that a widescreen resolution stretches all the images, including the title background, the logo, the icons, etc; However, nothing else like the minimap or models are effected, just the images.

Yeah, Glest uses a 'Virtual' co-ordinate system, the virtual window is 1000x750, 4:3.  Wide-screen means stretched GUI, my new widget system does not use these virtual co-ordinates, so that 'bug' will be fixed in 0.3.

Also is there a way to make buildings that don't need to be destroyed to win, at the minute in my mod every unit of a wall must be destroyed! This is kinda off topic but then again as mentioned would be important regarding stealth buildings.

Not currently, but please add the (as of now, completely unused) property 'wall' to the wall units 'properties' ...

Code: [Select]

<properties>
<property value="wall"/>
<property value="burnable"/>
</properties>

I haven't released 0.2.13a yet, so I'll sneak it in to that, walls so tagged will be ignored in the win/loose check.

Using the morph skill if there was some form of stealth field that could work

Now that's an interesting idea... will think on this...

[ChupaReaper]

Ok well I've already used wall so all ready for that update.

[Little Helper]

I had the same idea for stealth unit too! 

[Coldfusionstorm]

the way this is implentend in starcraft 1 and 2 is as forllows

you give the unit a abilty that have a certain effect this effect can be many different things but lets keep it simple.

what you will need (gameplay/codewise)to make stealth.

you are able to add/modify a units renderstate.(the render state is used to acually remove the unit from the players screen, this could be a sort of disortion from 0-100 were 100 is totally invisible and NOTHING is rendered. and 0 is full rendering). or perhaps a transparency effect.(i personally LOVE the starcraft style cloak).
and
you are able to modify the units attackable status (in starcraft this is dont by a flag in the effect section i guess).

so in a abilty of this type (crude example it would go down something like this:)and its some time ive been in the XM's

<ability>
<renderstate="100">
<flag="1""0""0">           (there the flag values are in order, wich means the first number is stealth and second*
<Duration="passive">   (acceptable values"passive" and "1-99999999999999999999" where passive is allways-on
<Type"=passive">   (the type defines how the button is suposed to act,if its passive the button is in a "state"of*2
<target"none">   (acceptable values are "enemy,self,allied,owned,objects"
<dmg"disable"  (acceptable values are "disable","1-9999999999999999"
<ability/>

*Could be invunrable, and third could be stucture,
*2allways pressed down.

Firstly, it is a crude example in comparrison to the current xml, but the values and diffines are as i would like them to be just with a syntax that looked more like the current XML syntax.

Secondly, it does look like im either inventing a new ability system, or vastly adding to the flexbilty, i suggest a open mind to this as the current system is limited, BUT capable of for example of adding new features like this-

thirdly, im sorry i couldt push AOE in there, i could not quite figure how you would define spash, since it both could be a effect on a attack on enemy and a spash effect on a ability.

Comment!, i would like to hear you opinions/concerns about this.

[John.d.h]

Just a few thoughts regarding possibilities for stealth (sorry if this comes out as a word salad rather than thorough ideas):

Different stealth modes:

• Passive (always on) vs. Active (toggle on/off)
• Light-sensitive (only available in low-light, i.e. at night and away from glowing units)
• Applied by effect/emanation vs. morph vs. some new mechanism

Different attack types:

• Regular (a normal attack that reveals the unit)
• Ambush (a special attack only available while cloaked, and it reveals the unit)
• Stealth attack (does not reveal the unit, like the sniper shot or Col. Burton's knife attack in C&C:G)

Then of course there's the issue of detector units (units that can see cloaked units), unless we just had light-sensitive cloaking, which would make every glowing unit a detector, although I'm sure real detector units would be vastly preferable.

[Coldfusionstorm]

Just a few thoughts regarding possibilities for stealth (sorry if this comes out as a word salad rather than thorough ideas):

Different stealth modes:

• Passive (always on) vs. Active (toggle on/off)
• Light-sensitive (only available in low-light, i.e. at night and away from glowing units)
• Applied by effect/emanation vs. morph vs. some new mechanism

Different attack types:

• Regular (a normal attack that reveals the unit)
• Ambush (a special attack only available while cloaked, and it reveals the unit)
• Stealth attack (does not reveal the unit, like the sniper shot or Col. Burton's knife attack in C&C:G)

Then of course there's the issue of detector units (units that can see cloaked units), unless we just had light-sensitive cloaking, which would make every glowing unit a detector, although I'm sure real detector units would be vastly preferable.

Passive (always on) vs. Active (toggle on/off) is covered in my above exapmle for type,i should perhaps have defined that, but that would look like this

<type="toggle">

For ambush, you could simply make the attack require a certain ability.and im not sure about desteathling under attack.

for Dections the same counts as a ability, it shows the unit as the owning player of the unit sees it.