future of scenarios

[treba]

hey,

while working again on my scenarioeditor i had some thoughts about how i would want them to be in the future.
folowing ideas:

• scenarios should be playable in multiplayer
• there should be a new map format, a countainer (zip or tar.gz) that contains the map and the scenario files. the only nessecary file in the container would be the map, everything else would be optional
• in scenarios, the values "network" and "select" should be added for the "control" attribute
• there should be a possability for creating campaigns
• megaglest should adopt the lua stuff from gae

the first point shouldn´t need any further explanation. the lua scripts in scenarios are a kind of modding feature. without it, there is no possability for mappers to make real modifications to the multiplayer.

the map container is another point which is interesting for map makers and modders. at first, it would simplify the multiplayer part, because when you select a scenario map, it will be played as scenario.
at the same time, the "scenario" button in the game menu could be removed. you could just select a scenario in "custom game" and play it. 
further, when creating complex scenarios you will often create special maps for it. but you have to distribute the stuff with the whole folderpath in a zip file or something like that. also, the special map will be displayed in custom games, even if it´s real not build for normal games.
all in all, it makes many things easier for map/scenario creators and solves problems that would occur with the abillity to play scenarios via mp.

of course, if you make a scenario mp-compatible, you have to have the possability to choose whether a slot in the scenario should be filled with another human, a cpu or by nobody, aka closed. im not really sure if "network" is really nessecary, because it would only be used to force a second human player.
because all maps are hosted via custom game now, because we have the map container and don´t need a special "scenario" menu anymore, there will be a menu to choose this stuff. at the moment, there is no possability to choose anything for scenarios (because it makes no sense so far). still, it has to be ensured that, when a map container with a scenario inside is selected in "custom map", values which are not "select" have to be forced.

campaigns could be a replacement for the scenario menu. a campaign could persist of a folder with some scenarios and a xml file, which defines the order in which the scenarios are played. of course game saving would be nice feature at this point.

and finally, please just adopt the lua stuff from gae, it would make scenarios much more powerfull. together with the mp-possability, some really nice fun-maps and stuff like that could come to mg.

so far,
treba

[softcoder]

Yes this is a good idea and I'd like some dicussion with Titi in this thread when he gets back.

[silnarm]

• there should be a new map format, a countainer (zip or tar.gz) that contains the map and the scenario files. the only nessecary file in the container would be the map, everything else would be optional

In GAE, Yggdrasil has incorporated PhysFS (or more fully, "Physics File System") which allows any game content to be distributed and loaded from zip files (and some others, like Id's archive formats, I believe). This work is mostly complete, but various problems with Windows have prevented any quick roll-out, I think we are mostly there though.  Softcoder has expressed an interest this work, and as soon as I'm satisfied that it is working correctly in GAE, it is likely to be added to MG.

• megaglest should adopt the lua stuff from gae

This will hopefully come to fruition in the near future, pending Titi's approval.

[treba]

that sounds really cool
just wanted to add that a possibillity to modify the techtree in the map would be really cool. so if you just one additional unit like a hero for a scenario, it could just be included in the map. (in a folder structure like "techtree/factions/tech/units/hero/").
hopefully, this physfs will allow something like that!?

greetz

[Omega]

Multiplayer scenarios would be interesting, though complex.

It wouldn't be a new _map_ format, but a simple way to add more files to the scenario folder, such as tell them to add a new unit from the scenario folder, or a new map, without having to place them in the map folder or the tech tree. This has been a bit of a pain to me, I admit, when military's scripted scenarios use a special map that cannot be played normally, but still has to go in the map folder. Hopefully the very abstract name I gave it gives away the fact its no normal map, but it would still be nice to not see it within the map selection (preferably bundled in the scenario folder).

Well, select would be a very odd choice for control, because it would (presumably) let you choose whether it is network or CPU, which could lead to difficulties coding. A better choice, I should think, is the ability to select the FACTIONS (not control). Of course, this would have to be very carefully used when making scenarios, since you'd be unable to create units or control the units of a selected faction (so we can assume select would be limited to the player, and would be used only for some scenarios).

Campaigns are a good idea. They would really just be a bunch of scenarios that have to be played in order. Complete scenario 1 and you can do scenario 2.

Adopting the lua from GAE would be the hardest part, I should think. GAE has sooo much new code, some which is dependant on GAE only code, so implimentation, while not impossible, may be very difficult.

[treba]

hey!

can somebody move this thread to the feature request board, please?

@titi: what do you think about it? imo it shouldn´t be that difficult to create atleast a possabillity to execute lua code in multiplayer games since it is handled by the server. but of course, the whole lua stuff would have to be changed for multiplayer because atm it has many functions that just target "the" human player. will it be possible in the next few month?

greetz

[John.d.h]

can somebody move this thread to the feature request board, please?

Done.

[Omega]

the whole lua stuff would have to be changed for multiplayer because atm it has many functions that just target "the" human player. will it be possible in the next few month?

Actually, they can target any player. For example, createUnit('swordman', 0, startLocation(0)) will create a swordman for the player 0. Likewise, replacing the 0's with 1's will make it create them for player 1. The main problem is that there's no way to know what faction the player is using. For example, if the player is magic, you can't create a swordman for them. And since multiplayer lets you choose the factions, maps, etc, that just won't do. Unless, of course, you want a game mode where you have set maps, factions, etc;

[treba]

actually, there are commands like setDisplayText, showMessage and setCameraPosition which don´t have a player or faction attribute.
and gae has even more of them, like unfogMap and lockInput.

[Omega]

True. It is unknown how they would react to a multiplayer situation as they are. Presumably, would affect all players, the rest would just crash the game...