Should we bring back the rope?

[John.d.h]

This thread is a response to a post in the "schools and genders" topic, but I feel it warrants its own thread because it's likely to cover a lot more territory.  Plus, it's something I feel like ranting about for a bit, and nobody's going to stop me.

some parents might get angry if their child gets in the lower int. class...

Blah blah blah.  Too many problems are caused by people not being willing to hurt somebody's feelings by telling them they're fat, stupid, and generally not very good at anything.  Instead, kids get constant compliments for doing nothing of worth, and they grow up thinking that everything they do is great and that they're somehow "special".  Guess what folks; you're not special.  There should be an entire class in elementary school dedicated to teaching kids that.

While I don't normally consider AskMen to be a reliable source of advice, this particular article nails it.

Climbing a rope is tough, and many boys can't do it, especially today’s fatties. The same coddling parents who turned their sons into meatballs turned their overprotective attention on the schools and blamed the administration if young butterball Timmy feels shame. The pressure persuades schools to slacken standards and, thus, the ropes have been taken down. While kids may feel better that day, they lose important lessons: the need to overcome adversity, the iniquity of life and that satisfaction of physical strength. We say bring back the rope.

The entire article: http://www.askmen.com/entertainment/austin_400/437_bring-back-the-rope.html

Read, comment, discuss.  Go go go!

[Omega]

I agree with you there. That borders on one discussion we had a bit back too about taking the blame.

IMO, protectiveness, while well intended, is a bad thing. People do need to learn to fend for themselves.

While I don't think that "Guess what folks; you're not special.  There should be an entire class in elementary school dedicated to teaching kids that.", as I think a more optimist view is better (I've seen schools with "Self Motivation" classes. Not sure how they teach that). However, you are right on some parts.

[wyvern]

Yes I will third that motion. In gymnastics, your not allowed to hurt a kids feelings if coaching cuz they could be hurt, well guess what, my gymnastics coach who was on the national team of the USSR has told some people that they were fat or lazy because thats what the old coaches were allowed to do, yet no one has quit because of it. I really think that all of this pampering of kids should stop

[-Archmage-]

I agree with you John. I'm sick and tired of hearing fat people talk about how people are starving in Africa. I'm not fat, I'm fit, and I enjoy being fit. Although I admit, I can't climb a rope.
I don't think we should have all these classes in school about self confidence and all that crap, people used to be taught arithmetic and spelling at school, and they learned morals from society and their family. Now-a-days, divorce rates have gone way up, and kids treat each other like dirt. We have f*cking social workers too, who try to manipulate kids into saying things(trust me, I went through that shit). Considering that back in the 1800's everyone was more civil that they are now, I think trying to make even more social classes would just make things worse.

IMO, protectiveness, while well intended, is a bad thing. People do need to learn to fend for themselves.

Agreed.

[John.d.h]

By the way, the rope isn't just the literal rope in gym class.  It's also a metaphor.  It's all there in the article, which is only about a page long.

IMO, protectiveness, while well intended, is a bad thing. People do need to learn to fend for themselves.

Agreed.  People need to fail sometimes.  When you fail at something and you recognize it, you have a chance to get better.  I was always a wimpy kid in elementary and middle school.  Arm wrestling, shuttle runs, you name it, I was terrible at it.  I realized it, and decided I didn't want to be that way anymore.  My 12th grade year, I could clean and jerk 200 pounds over my head.  Okay, so that doesn't make me Hercules and I only ever did it once, but still that's a pretty massive improvement, and I'll let these speak for themselves.  The point is, if you have no way of knowing that there's something wrong with you, then you have no way of fixing it except by accident, which is not going to happen.

While I don't think that "Guess what folks; you're not special.  There should be an entire class in elementary school dedicated to teaching kids that.", as I think a more optimist view is better (I've seen schools with "Self Motivation" classes. Not sure how they teach that). However, you are right on some parts.

I disagree.  I think a lot of the careless things that people do are a result of thinking that they're exceptional.  They look down on other people doing something, but then they give themselves a pass when they do the same thing.  I believe this stems from some fundamental flaw in their self-perceptions, that they're somehow special, so their good deeds are given more weight and their evil deeds less.

[modman]

I heard about this sort of thing (and lived through it).  I think that it is hard for a child to understand his/her place in the modern global culture.  Part of the problem, as John recognized, is the suggestion that a child is "exceptional", especially in the sense that they are some sort of exception.

I hate blaming in general, but might this have something to do with the media and interactions children are given?  Disney movies.  *shudder*  Maybe this is totally unrelated (in which case I will commit hari kari), but they always wrap the plots up very neatly, and the protagonist succeeds without exception.  The "bad guys" are always easily identifiable.

I think it is a sin to lie to a child in almost every case.  This might be the big cause.

[Gabbe]

Blah blah blah.  Too many problems are caused by people not being willing to hurt somebody's feelings by telling them they're fat, stupid, and generally not very good at anything.

I agree, while writing that about parents getting angry I was thinking of the social consequences, like small "riots" if you get it.

Instead, kids get constant compliments for doing nothing of worth, and they grow up thinking that everything they do is great and that they're somehow "special".  Guess what folks; you're not special.

Agreed, exception is that everyone is not special, "everyone one is special", "everyone is weird", "noone is special" all have the same meaning.

There should be an entire class in elementary school dedicated to teaching kids that.

Thank you there is already enough useless crap-classes. What should be done is teaching kids all the stuff till their 4-5 grades. then they can choose to specialize themselves within something. Teachers tell me they always know what some are good to do at a early age

I think it is a sin to lie to a child in almost every case.

Tell em all there is to know, then they can make up their own minds.

[John.d.h]

There should be an entire class in elementary school dedicated to teaching kids that.

Thank you there is already enough useless crap-classes. What should be done is teaching kids all the stuff till their 4-5 grades. then they can choose to specialize themselves within something. Teachers tell me they always know what some are good to do at a early age

I was using hyperbole, but yeah, most of the stuff we learn in school is pretty useless.