Author Topic: Build vs. repair  (Read 2722 times)

John.d.h

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Build vs. repair
« on: 3 October 2010, 21:34:51 »
Not really sure if this is a bug or not, but when you have a unit working on a building and he gets interrupted and then goes back to it, he uses his repair skill instead of his build skill.  The problem with this is that repairing is (at least in both Magic and Tech) drastically slower than building.  I propose that whenever a building is being built, exactly one of the builders should use his build skill instead of repair skill if he has the building on his list of buildable units.

ChupaReaper

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Re: Build vs. repair
« Reply #1 on: 3 October 2010, 22:09:33 »
Or alternative, you could have it so that if a unit is 'repairing' a building in its be_built state then the unit should use its build skill instead, but only if that unit is capable of building it. (So in my faction I have units that can build the same things but sometimes different things if worker type 1 was to build something that type 2 cant, type 2 should still be able to repair it, where as other type 1 workers would go to use their repair skill on a building and swap to their build skill because they can build that building and the building is in its be built state).

John.d.h

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Re: Build vs. repair
« Reply #2 on: 3 October 2010, 22:22:26 »
What? :confused:

ChupaReaper

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Re: Build vs. repair
« Reply #3 on: 3 October 2010, 22:45:15 »
Basically if a building is in a units build command, the unit should use build rather than repair, but only if that building is still being built. Units that can't build the building in question just use their repair skill.

John.d.h

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Re: Build vs. repair
« Reply #4 on: 4 October 2010, 00:55:41 »
Oh... how is that different from what I said?  Or is it?  I'm not sure anymore.

ChupaReaper

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Re: Build vs. repair
« Reply #5 on: 4 October 2010, 09:37:03 »
The difference is, with yours only the worker that started building the building uses his build skill even when interupted, where as I said all the workers that can build the buildings should use build instead of repair.

John.d.h

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Re: Build vs. repair
« Reply #6 on: 4 October 2010, 15:52:53 »
Oh, gotcha.  I think that would mess things up a lot, considering build skills are usually something like three times as fast as repair skills, so buildings would go up at a ridiculous rate.

ChupaReaper

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Re: Build vs. repair
« Reply #7 on: 4 October 2010, 17:10:30 »
True but with my mod it's slightly different as I designing expecting that all workers would use build not repair, so it can vary with different mods and can be interesting for multi worker factions. Perhaps this could be optional per faction so mods that would build too fast only allow one worker to use build where as other mods may have multiple workers using build on the same building.

John.d.h

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Re: Build vs. repair
« Reply #8 on: 4 October 2010, 17:17:16 »
I think my way is much simpler, and more like it's fixing a minor glitch/oversight, whereas you're proposing a change to the fundamental way the game is played.  If you want your buildings to go up really fast with multiple workers, you can just give them a faster repair skill.  Of course, that will make your other repairs really fast, but that doesn't seem like a huge deal.

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Re: Build vs. repair
« Reply #9 on: 4 October 2010, 19:33:25 »
I'm with ChupaReaper on this.

Quote
I think that would mess things up a lot, considering build skills are usually something like three times as fast as repair skills, so buildings would go up at a ridiculous rate.

The buildings have ridiculously low hp. :|
How many times do you have to stab someone to kill them? 1 time usually
How many times do you have to stab a building to knock it down?  :P

I think some things are ridiculous, you think some things are ridiculous, they're really just opinions. The fact is that ChupaReaper's idea makes more sense.
« Last Edit: 4 October 2010, 19:35:57 by -Archmage- »
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ChupaReaper

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Re: Build vs. repair
« Reply #10 on: 4 October 2010, 20:57:36 »
I just think it adds more to a multi worker situation and a building that hasn't been built yet doesn't need repaired because it hasn't been built yet, but workers that can't build that type of building could use their repair skill to help contribute a bit.
Also a building should only be completed by the build skill if it's about to be completed using just repair it should have -1 its total hp until a unit that can build the building comes and polishes it off this stop people using one worker type from starting the building then swapping to another to finish it off.
This all adds to a diverse faction that has multiple workers where some workers can build or repair faster or move faster, etc.

John.d.h

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Re: Build vs. repair
« Reply #11 on: 4 October 2010, 22:19:12 »
The buildings have ridiculously low hp. :|
How many times do you have to stab someone to kill them? 1 time usually
How many times do you have to stab a building to knock it down?  :P
So make a mod with high-HP buildings and low-HP troops if you like.  That's not an engine issue at all.

Quote
I think some things are ridiculous, you think some things are ridiculous, they're really just opinions. The fact is that ChupaReaper's idea makes more sense.
Not if it breaks balanced gameplay or makes it overly complicated.

I just think it adds more to a multi worker situation and a building that hasn't been built yet doesn't need repaired because it hasn't been built yet, but workers that can't build that type of building could use their repair skill to help contribute a bit.
That's already how it works.

Quote
Also a building should only be completed by the build skill if it's about to be completed using just repair it should have -1 its total hp until a unit that can build the building comes and polishes it off this stop people using one worker type from starting the building then swapping to another to finish it off.
This all adds to a diverse faction that has multiple workers where some workers can build or repair faster or move faster, etc.
Why would a worker know how to repair something that he/she can't build?  Either you can lay bricks or you can't.  Why would a unit be able to lay every brick except the final one?

ChupaReaper

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Re: Build vs. repair
« Reply #12 on: 4 October 2010, 23:29:51 »
I just think it adds more to a multi worker situation and a building that hasn't been built yet doesn't need repaired because it hasn't been built yet, but workers that can't build that type of building could use their repair skill to help contribute a bit.
That's already how it works.
It's not really, all units that can repair the building go over and repair it (if auto repair is on, else if instructed) and if instructed workers that can't repair it but have a repair command can be told to repair the building and they do which I'm not sure if it's meant to be like that or if it's a bug.

Quote
Also a building should only be completed by the build skill if it's about to be completed using just repair it should have -1 its total hp until a unit that can build the building comes and polishes it off this stop people using one worker type from starting the building then swapping to another to finish it off.
This all adds to a diverse faction that has multiple workers where some workers can build or repair faster or move faster, etc.
Why would a worker know how to repair something that he/she can't build?  Either you can lay bricks or you can't.  Why would a unit be able to lay every brick except the final one?
You have a good point here, maybe instead if a building is being built by workers that can build the building then workers that can't can assist with their repair skill (optional assist flag or something?). If the workers that can build the building suddenly stop and go away then all assisting workers that can't build it and are using their repair skill would stop. The idea is they're being guided by other workers so when the other workers go away the workers that can't build the building aren't being guided any more so have to wait for the other workers to come back.

Also the auto-repair skill should tell workers to auto-build nearby buildings that are being built too using their build skill not repair.

So when building buildings...!
If a unit can build the building:
  • They can start building it.
  • They use their build skill in place of their repair skill when the building is using it's be_built skill.
  • Auto-Repair effects building things as well as repairing.
If a unit can't build the building:
  • They can't start building it (obviously).
  • They can only use their repair skill to help build the building which is slower and only when at least one worker that can build the building is using its build skill on it, else repairing is stopped/cannot be started.
  • Auto-Repair acts as normal (so long as the building listed in the units repair list).

Also the repair skill/command should have a flag that disallows repairing buildings that are being built (using their be_built skill to be precise). As some units may have powerful repair skills which fix buildings fast. (One of my factions will have units dedicated to maintaining buildings, this would mean that they can use these units to build things really fast.)
If this makes some mods broken so that buildings are built too fast, perhaps buildings could have a flag or something set somewhere like their parameters or in their be_built skill where only a certain amount of units can use build on it (this would be a default of 1 but could be increased or set to 0 for no limit).
« Last Edit: 4 October 2010, 23:37:06 by ChupaReaper »

silnarm

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Re: Build vs. repair
« Reply #13 on: 5 October 2010, 13:43:58 »
Wow, I didn't think this one would generate so much discussion.

I think that for balance reasons it wont be changing. Making sure at least one of them was using the build skill might be nice, but I say if your original worker gets interrupted, tough luck! (While it wouldn't hard to implement, it would not be 'clean' in the code, and I'm not keen on adding myself).

If you want workers to repair faster in a mod you are making, that your prerogative, just increase the skill speed.
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Re: Build vs. repair
« Reply #14 on: 6 October 2010, 00:12:28 »
Thus why military's build and repair speeds are the same. You're welcome to do likewise in your mod if you'd like. To be honest, it's not a massively huge deal...
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ChupaReaper

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Re: Build vs. repair
« Reply #15 on: 7 October 2010, 09:07:40 »
Well I'm not too bothered by this, I just see a way to make having different worker units that can build different things a tiny bit more interesting.

lazyanttu

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Re: Build vs. repair
« Reply #16 on: 15 January 2012, 21:55:26 »
Posting in very old thread I know...but this was exactly what was my problem.

So if I want that the building is built at same speed (was the worker interupted or not) is the only way to do it by having build speed = repair speed? Or has it changed somehow.

Kiko

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Re: Build vs. repair
« Reply #17 on: 22 January 2012, 05:43:41 »
Just my tuppence-worth as a new GAE player. I love the fact that moving workers near to a building under construction causes them to join in the 'repair', so from a gameplay point of view it all feels pretty natural. Thus, the build speed of an interrupted worker isn't important from my point of view.

In fact this, plus GAE's ability to have characters return to their original position after a fight, guard others and patrol, etc., are major plus points for me personally. Such things make the game very fluid and easy to follow when things become complicated.

 

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