Japanese Faction mod [WIP] V0.89a released! (9 December 2011)

[emscape]

Well, the barracks and the whatchtower look very suitable for my mod

Would that be ok with you?

[John.d.h]

Ninja's were very skilled at close-combat.

Ninjas aren't superhuman, you know.  The last thing he'd want to do is get into a fight with somebody who's better armed, better armored, and better trained than he is.  Like a samurai, for example.

And also, the idea of them wearing black jumpsuits originated (AFAIK) in Japanese theatre, not reality.  Still, maybe it's necessary for distinguishing him from the other units.

[emscape]

I doubt samurai where better trained than ninja, Armored they were for sure, their katanas butchered ninja's indeed. But a ninja had a really neat training

[Zoythrus]

if i remember correctly, ninjas and samurai werent the best of friends. this means that they would have special training to defeat each other. i think that the samurai and the ninja should have damage bonuses against each other. that would make things interesting....

[Hagekura]

Well, the barracks and the whatchtower look very suitable for my mod

Would that be ok with you?

I got it.
I'm looking forward to how my models used in your story mod.

lol I'm pleased to see how you guys are interested in Ninja.

actually,John's comment is right.Black robed Ninja style what we often see in movies and comics are not true.
such styles were created after sengoku period,In modern pulp fictions.
Ninjas at that time,乱破(rappa),素破(suppa),間者(kanja),they were actually a people who were good with disguisement and sneak into enemy territory,and grab some important information or spread rumor to confuse enemies.so they were looked like ordinary peasants or vendors indeed. - but it's not interesting so I'll use the familiar black suit style in my mod -.maybe some of them had special skills to pursuit their sabotage missions. maybe some of them had a excellent fighting skills.but truth is in the darkness.
after all,they were "secret services".

if i remember correctly, ninjas and samurai werent the best of friends. this means that they would have special training to defeat each other. i think that the samurai and the ninja should have damage bonuses against each other. that would make things interesting....

this is somewhat truth.Daimyo Oda Nobunaga invaded one of the famous Ninja villages,Iga village in 1579 and 1581.
but many daimyos and Ninja families had a contract each other.for example,Hojo clan dealed with famous Ninja family,風魔衆(Fuuma family).Takeda clan also had their own ninja unit,祝師衆(Hafuri unit).above all,Tokugawa clan used tha Ninjas most largely.Tokugawa clan used the most famous ninjas 甲賀衆(koga people)lead by The Ninja Hattori Hanzo and 伊賀衆(Iga people).these Ninjas often saved Tokugawa from crisis.

anyway,Ninja pwns!

[Mark]

The only reason ninjas existed is that bushido (which samurai followed more than knights followed chivalry) forbade samurai from undertaking secret tasks.  So, they hired people who would do these for them.  Ninjas were hired thieves and spies, and when it was necessary to remain inconspicuous, they wore normal clothes.  They also did not necessarily have good fighting skills, especially when compared to samurai.

[Zoythrus]

well, isnt a ninja anyone who knows Ninjitsu?

ninjas need to awesome, but flawed. so far, i like the idea of no armor/ little HP, but ok attack, good speed, and just overall awesomeness....

[John.d.h]

actually,John's comment is right.Black robed Ninja style what we often see in movies and comics are not true.
such styles were created after sengoku period,In modern pulp fictions.
Ninjas at that time,乱破(rappa),素破(suppa),間者(kanja),they were actually a people who were good with disguisement and sneak into enemy territory,and grab some important information or spread rumor to confuse enemies.so they were looked like ordinary peasants or vendors indeed. - but it's not interesting so I'll use the familiar black suit style in my mod -.maybe some of them had special skills to pursuit their sabotage missions. maybe some of them had a excellent fighting skills.but truth is in the darkness.
after all,they were "secret services".

I think you could have some compromise between reality and fantasy here.  Maybe something like this would be a good starting point.  A black shirt and a headband might make it a bit more obvious to the player that he's a ninja.  A headband would also be a good place to put team color, and so would a belt (or both).

[-Archmage-]

Quote from: -Archmage- on Today at 05:50:09
Ninja's were very skilled at close-combat. No Opinion
Ninjas aren't superhuman, you know.  The last thing he'd want to do is get into a fight with somebody who's better armed, better armored, and better trained than he is.  Like a samurai, for example.

They were usually recruited, but there were some families that trained ninja's professionally, so it's really about the ninja personally not ninja's in general. Consider this an update I've read a bit more. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ninja#Iga_and_K.C5.8Dga_clans

And also, the idea of them wearing black jumpsuits originated (AFAIK) in Japanese theatre, not reality.  Still, maybe it's necessary for distinguishing him from the other units.

Still, the point is to be stealthy, black "jumpsuits" would work well at night. For instance, my halloween costume was great, I was in all black and people literally a few feet away from me looked right past me.

if i remember correctly

How old are you???

ninjas and samurai werent the best of friends. this means that they would have special training to defeat each other. i think that the samurai and the ninja should have damage bonuses against each other. that would make things interesting...

Class difference....
Samarai were from the high classes, and because the work of a ninja was not considered honorable, ninjas were mostly people recruited from lower classes to spy, sabotage, assassinate, not be seen, fit in, and more.

I did some reading up on ninjas the other day. The siege at Hara Castle, a final stand for the Shimabara Rebellion, was won mainly through the use of ninjas, infiltrating and sabotaging. Maybe the ninjas should have a sabotage attack which is very effective again buildings, of course you'll need to add some attack modifiers though...

The only reason ninjas existed is that bushido (which samurai followed more than knights followed chivalry) forbade samurai from undertaking secret tasks.  So, they hired people who would do these for them.  Ninjas were hired thieves and spies, and when it was necessary to remain inconspicuous, they wore normal clothes.

 

The ninja emerged as mercenaries in the 15th century, where they were recruited as spies, raiders, arsonists and even terrorists. Amongst the samurai, a sense of ritual and decorum was observed, where one was expected to fight or duel openly. Combined with the unrest of the Sengoku era, these factors created a demand for men willing to commit deeds considered not respectable for conventional warriors. By the Sengoku period, the shinobi had several roles, including spy (kanchō), scout (teisatsu), surprise attacker (kishu), and agitator (konran). The ninja families were organized into larger guilds, each with their own territories. A system of rank existed. A jōnin ("upper man") was the highest rank, representing the group and hiring out mercenaries. This is followed by the chūnin ("middle man"), assistants to the jōnin. At the bottom was the genin ("lower man"), field agents drawn from the lower class and assigned to carry out actual missions.

[Mark]

I was right!  Good, I don't remember where I got that from... might have been TV, actually.

I like john's idea, but make sure he has some team color.  Maybe the sock and the sleeves (the orange parts).

[ultifd]

https://docs.megaglest.org/Japanese 
Alright, now everyone else please help add information...
(For now I put it as a faction, because it would be kinda hard to edit it when it is a "techtree" with only one known faction...Also, cause this faction is still in WIP + it'll be easier to change the wiki page later when you announce the other factions...)
For the Mansion of Daimyo, should it really have a pointer?

[Hagekura]

I think you could have some compromise between reality and fantasy here.  Maybe something like this would be a good starting point.  A black shirt and a headband might make it a bit more obvious to the player that he's a ninja.  A headband would also be a good place to put team color, and so would a belt (or both).

Cool,Kamui!
I'll use his style as a reference.thx.

https://docs.megaglest.org/Japanese 
Alright, now everyone else please help add information...
(For now I put it as a faction, because it would be kinda hard to edit it when it is a "techtree" with only one known faction...Also, cause this faction is still in WIP + it'll be easier to change the wiki page later when you announce the other factions...)

Thank you! I think it's okay put it as a faction.

For the Mansion of Daimyo, should it really have a pointer?

pointer???

[ultifd]

A headband would also be a good place to put team color, and so would a belt (or both).

heh, I thought of that too. 

pointer?

Meeting point, I mean.

[Hagekura]

Meeting point, I mean.

Ah,I see.
Daimyo's mansion will produces Ninjas when they are done,so it has a meeting pointer.

[Psychedelic_hands]

if i remember correctly, ninjas and samurai werent the best of friends. this means that they would have special training to defeat each other. i think that the samurai and the ninja should have damage bonuses against each other. that would make things interesting....

This is true. I may be wrong about this, so don't condemn me for saying it. ( also I don't know times)

The Samurai were dominant in Japan, like they did all the dirty work for their lords. They were the mac daddies. Until the ninja came along who didn't care about honor so they actually used smart tactics to defeat them. So the lords started hiring them instead....

So wouldn't the most accurate thing to do is to make the Samurai beat all other infantry, but you could counter them with the ninjas.

[Zoythrus]

if i remember correctly, ninjas and samurai werent the best of friends. this means that they would have special training to defeat each other. i think that the samurai and the ninja should have damage bonuses against each other. that would make things interesting....

So wouldn't the most accurate thing to do is to make the Samurai beat all other infantry, but you could counter them with the ninjas.

Ninjas should be the anti-heavy infantry/reconnaissance unit. that's a fun combination

[Gabbe]

Hmm, i think you also should make a colonial japanese faction, with "Ashigaru" or something musketeer [Ashigaru musketeer]

[Hagekura]

colonial japanese?like 19th~20th Empire of Japan?

[ultifd]

Daimyo's mansion will produces Ninjas when they are done,so it has a meeting pointer.

Oh... I thought they would be produced from another building... But good, cause some people thought it had one for no reason...

[Gabbe]

Ashigaru formed the backbone of samurai armies in the later periods. The real change for the ashigaru began in mid 16th century with the introduction of guns from foreign traders, such as the Portuguese. Almost immediately local daimyo started to equip their ashigaru with the new weapon that required little training to use proficiently, as compared to the Japanese longbow which took many years to learn.

The advantage of the new powerful ranged weapon proved decisive to samurai warfare. This was demonstrated at the Battle of Nagashino in 1575, where carefully positioned ashigaru with muskets thwarted Takeda's repeated heavy cavalry charges against the Oda clan's defensive lines and broke the back of the Takeda war machine.

After the battle, the ashigarus' role in the armies were cemented as a very powerful complement to the samurai. The advantage was used in the two invasions of Korea in 1592 and 1597 against the Koreans and later the Chinese. Though the ratio of the guns (muskets) and the bows was 2:1 at the first invasion the ratio became 4:1 at the second invasion since the guns were very effective .[1]

[Hagekura]

Daimyo's mansion will produces Ninjas when they are done,so it has a meeting pointer.

Oh... I thought they would be produced from another building... But good, cause some people thought it had one for no reason...

You missed the small sign which shows where Ninja produced from in the tech-tree map huh?
again,thank you for creating wiki page.I'll try edit it after i take short sleep(I just returned from night shift) .

Are you talking about Japanese invasion of Korea,Gabbe?
that is an interesting idea,though there are some problems about I make the mod.
First,I don't know much about Joseon Dynasty and Ming empire's militaries.
Second,If I make such a mod,korean people will get angry like fire .

[ultifd]

You missed the small sign which shows where Ninja produced from in the tech-tree map huh?

Yes

Second,If I make such a mod,korean people will get angry like fire .

Yeah, I think there are a lot of other ideas that would be better, or more appropriate.

again,thank you for creating wiki page.

It's my pleasure, such a great mod anyways  and of course also we're trying to update the wiki...  

[Gabbe]

just make Korea afterwards, or get someone to help you.  Im not angry at Titi for him making norsemen 

[ultifd]

Im not angry at Titi for him making norsemen  

That's not the same thing...Hagekura isn't making a Korean faction...different scenario. This is about if any Koreans feel uh...not that good after seeing a mod based upon when Japan invaded Korea...  
Plus, he doesn't have much information about them (he could research as others do, but if he knows more information about other eras of Japan/etc. , wouldn't it would be better to create them...)

[Gabbe]

I wouldnt stop anyone from making a swedish mod, from the napoleon era, even though at that time, sweden controlled norway.