*om nom nom*, or food and diet

[John.d.h]

http://www.peta.org/b/thepetafiles/archive/2010/11/03/san-francisco-bans-happy-meals.aspx?c=pfs

Score!

[ultifd]

Yeah!

[ElimiNator]

That is why you shouldn't ever buy from MicDonalds.

[-Archmage-]

There's nothing wrong with some Mac'Donalds once in a while. But seriously, changing kids meals isn't the answer to overweight problems.

[ultifd]

There's nothing wrong with some Mac'Donalds once in a while.

That's true. Too bad a lot of people eat McDonalds more than once in a while...

But seriously, changing kids meals isn't the answer to overweight problems

Of course, it is part of the solution...the toys in the kids meals were/are related to people being overweight, well kids for that part...

[-Archmage-]

If you see a fat person reading carbs, go up to them and tell them to just stop eating obviously fattening foods, and go walking. I could get fat, but I don't because I control my lifestyle, I feel like I wanna lose a little weight, I cut my diet and exercise a little more. Loosing weight(at least for me) is not very hard at all.

[John.d.h]

I don't think any amount of McDonald's is a good idea unless you're literally starving to death.  Plus, of course you'd be supporting a company that deals death to kids in the same way that any tobacco corporation does.  I don't think I can think of a single thing about them that I do not hate.  Then again, I'm somewhat particular about what I allow into my body.  Of course, parents are just as much to blame for feeding this garbage to their children in the first place.  You can't really force people to be good parents, but you can force a company to stop selling a product that is harmful to consumers.

If you see a fat person reading carbs, go up to them and tell them to just stop eating obviously fattening foods, and go walking. I could get fat, but I don't because I control my lifestyle, I feel like I wanna lose a little weight, I cut my diet and exercise a little more. Loosing weight(at least for me) is not very hard at all.

You most likely have a good metabolism, so you can stay in shape pretty easily.  Other people, such as many Pacific islanders, are genetically predisposed to weight gain.  Of course, they still can be in shape, but it doesn't come as naturally to many as it does to people like you and me.

But seriously, changing kids meals isn't the answer to overweight problems.

It's not going to fix it entirely, but I think that getting that crap out of our children's mouths is a step in the right direction.
Now might be a good time to note that people who eat meat, on average, are three times as likely to be obese, are 40% more likely to develop cancer, have 2.5 times more cardiac events (including heart attacks, angioplasty, bypass surgery, and strokes), and die younger than those who don't eat meat.  So really, the obvious answer to overweight problems is simply for people to eat less meat.  It's not rocket science.

Edit: To clarify, I'm not saying that eating less meat is guaranteed to solve all obesity-related health problems, as you can be vegan and still spend your days sitting on your butt while eating potato chips, smoking crystal meth, and drinking whiskey.  With that said, a meat-free diet carries far fewer health risks than a meat-eating diet, even when controlling for other factors such as tobacco use and socioeconomic status.  There are obviously going to be obstacles, notably that vegans tend to not get as much B12, iron, calcium, or zinc in their diets.  However, all of these are easily offset with supplementation, and the American Medical Association says that you should be taking a daily multivitamin no matter what diet you follow.

[ultifd]

Loosing weight(at least for me) is not very hard at all.

Well, that's probably related to your metabolism...or something else. But nice, if only it would be as easy for others...

Yeah, I rarely eat at Mcdonald's these days...there is always something better...

I'm not vegetarian, but I try to eat less meat...usually.

[-Archmage-]

Quote from: -Archmage- on Today at 02:53:10
If you see a fat person reading carbs, go up to them and tell them to just stop eating obviously fattening foods, and go walking. I could get fat, but I don't because I control my lifestyle, I feel like I wanna lose a little weight, I cut my diet and exercise a little more. Loosing weight(at least for me) is not very hard at all. Look
You most likely have a good metabolism, so you can stay in shape pretty easily.  Other people, such as many Pacific islanders, are genetically predisposed to weight gain.  Of course, they still can be in shape, but it doesn't come as naturally to many as it does to people like you and me.

No, I can get fat, but I just choose not too. I don't eat very much and I ride my bike a lot. Back when I was in public school, I was pudgy. Even with gym, and carrying my books all over the place.

Quote from: -Archmage- on Today at 02:03:34
But seriously, changing kids meals isn't the answer to overweight problems. Roll Eyes
It's not going to fix it entirely, but I think that getting that crap out of our children's mouths is a step in the right direction.

I'm pretty sure most kids don't crave stupid little plastic toys, but still I agree, a step in the right direction.

Now might be a good time to note that people who eat meat, on average, are three times as likely to be obese, are 40% more likely to develop cancer, have 2.5 times more cardiac events (including heart attacks, angioplasty, bypass surgery, and strokes), and die younger than those who don't eat meat.  So really, the obvious answer to overweight problems is simply for people to eat less meat.  It's not rocket science

You're quoting the big organizations... As usual, they give the dummie explanation which is very untrustworthy. My Dad(age 64) reads an independent doctor, who explains things in detail. Guess what, apart from parkinsons(which I will explain if asked), he is very healthy, he's growing black hairs again, and he can still ride his bike 5 miles one-way to work. I'll definitely trust the independent doctor more, because compare results: A healthy kickin' 64 year-old, or someone recovered from cancer in a wheel-chair with a giant scar.

My health advice(one reason why I never get sick): Human's are naturally short of Vitamin C, other animals produce it naturally, but we don't, therefore we need to supply ourselves, I take Emergen-C since it's easy and tastes good. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_C

However, all of these are easily offset with supplementation, and the American Medical Association says that you should be taking a daily multivitamin no matter what diet you follow

Your body needs way more than a puny multi-vitamin.

Mac'Donalds tastes really good, that's the only reason I go there once in a while(few times a year).

[wyvern]

No offense but I think its not the meat that a problem its more of the stuff thats in the meat nowadays, if it was pure meat I doubt it would affect you in any negative way.

[John.d.h]

You're quoting the big organizations... As usual, they give the dummie explanation which is very untrustworthy.

Would you prefer the American Dietetic Association, the American Medical Association, the Centers for Disease Control, university studies?  It's not like PETA is pulling these statistics out of thin air, and all of the data can be found in scholarly works.

My Dad(age 64) reads an independent doctor, who explains things in detail. Guess what, apart from parkinsons(which I will explain if asked), he is very healthy, he's growing black hairs again, and he can still ride his bike 5 miles one-way to work. I'll definitely trust the independent doctor more, because compare results: A healthy kickin' 64 year-old, or someone recovered from cancer in a wheel-chair with a giant scar.

Good for him, but the plural of "anecdote" is not "data".  If it works for him, then great, but there are a ton of other possible factors (like genetics, mental state, etc.) that make it impossible to generalize that to an entire population.  I'll also take a peer-reviewed journal over the word of a single author any day.  When someone writes a book, they usually don't have a panel of experts verifying the validity of what they say.  I could write a book saying that the secret to a healthy life was to breathe less and maybe even get it published, but that doesn't mean it's true.  That's a bit of hyperbole, but I think you get the idea.

My health advice(one reason why I never get sick): Human's are naturally short of Vitamin C, other animals produce it naturally, but we don't, therefore we need to supply ourselves, I take Emergen-C since it's easy and tastes good. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_C

Your body needs way more than a puny multi-vitamin.

So... you're short on C, so you take a supplement and that's plenty good enough, and I'm short on B12, so I take a supplement and it's not good enough?  I think I missed something.  Or maybe you mean that a regular multi doesn't have everything you need?  If you were referring to something like Centrum, I would agree, but what I take has

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[url=http://www.amway.com/JohnHarvey/en/ResourceCenterDocuments/Visitor/nutr-nut-nutr-v-en--NutriliteDoubleXVitaminMineralPhytonutrient.pdf]loads of everything[/url].

Mac'Donalds tastes really good, that's the only reason I go there once in a while(few times a year).

Ew.

No offense but I think its not the meat that a problem its more of the stuff thats in the meat nowadays, if it was pure meat I doubt it would affect you in any negative way.

Either way, meat still has a ton of saturated fat and cholesterol in it.  Whether it's loaded with antibiotics and artificial hormones like most of it is, cancer is still cancer and a heart attack is still a heart attack.  There are few good reasons to eat meat, and many good reasons not to.

[Omega]

Meh, that's stupid. Where I live, the vast majority of kids are in shape, because parents actually give a ****. Look at any of those fatties, and you'll notice they're stuffing their faces while their parents sit around doing NOTHING. When I was a kid, my parents gave me one choice for a meal, don't like it, too bad. You ate it all or you get punished. McDonalds was a rare treat that might happen once a month or so. The toys in happy meals? Just a fun extra. Not like anyone who wants the toys buys the food themselves. They always have their parents do, which just brings us back to the fact that it's a parent's responsibility to maintain their child's health.

Me? I eat more than anyone else in my family, probably eat at McDonalds once a week on average (because it's affiliated with the store I work at for a P/T job, and get a discount), spend plenty of time in front of a computer, yet, still maintain a healthy 175 pounds (accord to

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[url=http://www.nhlbisupport.com/bmi/]this site[/url] that's a nice healthy weight for 6'1") simply because I exercise, eat balanced meals, etc etc... Never had any trouble maintaining my weight. I don't make a huge effort for it either. It's not as hard as some people make it sound (first rule: do something you love. I dislike long distance jogging, but love sports, thus, sports are a better way to exercise).

@Multivitamins: They are fine. I've taken a multivitamin daily (abet, the parent issue again). Very very few people can possibly reach all their minimum vitamins in a day, and this simply helps you maintain healthy levels of those vitamins. As John pointed out, many vitamins are not produced naturally in our body, such as C (mmm, fruit) and D (mmm, sunlight).

[ultifd]

I'm pretty sure most kids don't crave stupid little plastic toys

If only that was true...

[-Archmage-]

Quote from: -Archmage- on November 04, 2010, 14:35:39
You're quoting the big organizations... As usual, they give the dummie explanation which is very untrustworthy.
Would you prefer the American Dietetic Association, the American Medical Association, the Centers for Disease Control, university studies?  It's not like PETA is pulling these statistics out of thin air, and all of the data can be found in scholarly works.

How about hard facts from independent sources that can be fully cross-referenced. I don't trust Unions or large associations, and I never will. Not that I think they're totally wrong on everything.

Quote
My Dad(age 64) reads an independent doctor, who explains things in detail. Guess what, apart from parkinsons(which I will explain if asked), he is very healthy, he's growing black hairs again, and he can still ride his bike 5 miles one-way to work. I'll definitely trust the independent doctor more, because compare results: A healthy kickin' 64 year-old, or someone recovered from cancer in a wheel-chair with a giant scar.
Good for him, but the plural of "anecdote" is not "data".  If it works for him, then great, but there are a ton of other possible factors (like genetics, mental state, etc.) that make it impossible to generalize that to an entire population.  I'll also take a peer-reviewed journal over the word of a single author any day.  When someone writes a book, they usually don't have a panel of experts verifying the validity of what they say.  I could write a book saying that the secret to a healthy life was to breathe less and maybe even get it published, but that doesn't mean it's true.  That's a bit of hyperbole, but I think you get the idea.

It's not a book, it's on the internet.

Quote
My health advice(one reason why I never get sick): Human's are naturally short of Vitamin C, other animals produce it naturally, but we don't, therefore we need to supply ourselves, I take Emergen-C since it's easy and tastes good. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_C
Quote
Your body needs way more than a puny multi-vitamin.
So... you're short on C, so you take a supplement and that's plenty good enough, and I'm short on B12, so I take a supplement and it's not good enough?  I think I missed something.  Or maybe you mean that a regular multi doesn't have everything you need?  If you were referring to something like Centrum, I would agree, but what I take has loads of everything.

I was talking about those sad little multi-vitamins with 30 mg of vital things like vitamin C. Yours looks like quality stuff, though you need to take about 8 of em a day for low-average C levels(2000-4000mg is average as far as I know).
What I meant was that regular multi-vitamins have way too little of everything you need.

Quote
Mac'Donalds tastes really good, that's the only reason I go there once in a while(few times a year). Tongue
Ew.

 

Quote from: Wyvern on November 04, 2010, 16:53:06
No offense but I think its not the meat that a problem its more of the stuff thats in the meat nowadays, if it was pure meat I doubt it would affect you in any negative way.
Either way, meat still has a ton of saturated fat and cholesterol in it.  Whether it's loaded with antibiotics and artificial hormones like most of it is, cancer is still cancer and a heart attack is still a heart attack.  There are few good reasons to eat meat, and many good reasons not to.

Cholestoral isn't bad in general, it's a type of cholestoral that's bad.
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Why_is_cholestoral_good
Cross-reference - AHA: http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/Conditions/Cholesterol/AboutCholesterol/Good-vs-Bad-Cholesterol_UCM_305561_Article.jsp

This is also very interesting:

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http://health.ninemsn.com.au/whatsgoodforyou/theshow/693988/are-eggs-bad-for-your-heartI don't eat eggs much, but I do enjoy them.

They always have their parents do, which just brings us back to the fact that it's a parent's responsibility to maintain their child's health.

I would have to disagree, it's not a parents responibility to maintain their kid's health, but rather to teach the kid to manage his own health.

[ultifd]

Mac'Donalds tastes really good, that's the only reason I go there once in a while(few times a year).

Ew.

Taste really good? I wonder why...  

They always have their parents do, which just brings us back to the fact that it's a parent's responsibility to maintain their child's health.

I would have to disagree, it's not a parents responibility to maintain their kid's health, but rather to teach the kid to manage his own health.

Well, I think it is both...

[-Archmage-]

Quote from: John.d.h on November 04, 2010, 17:10:32
Quote
Mac'Donalds tastes really good, that's the only reason I go there once in a while(few times a year). Tongue
Ew.
Laughing Taste really good? I wonder why...  Laughing

That's why I only go when we're hungry and driving by one.

Quote
Quote
They always have their parents do, which just brings us back to the fact that it's a parent's responsibility to maintain their child's health.
I would have to disagree, it's not a parents responibility to maintain their kid's health, but rather to teach the kid to manage his own health.
Well, I think it is both...

I guess you're right.

[John.d.h]

How about hard facts from independent sources that can be fully cross-referenced. I don't trust Unions or large associations, and I never will. Not that I think they're totally wrong on everything.

I'm not really sure what you mean by "independent sources".  Like university studies?

It's not a book, it's on the internet.

Even more so.  Anyone can post anything they want on the internet as long as it doesn't violate laws... and still, they sometimes get away with it.

I was talking about those sad little multi-vitamins with 30 mg of vital things like vitamin C. Yours looks like quality stuff, though you need to take about 8 of em a day for low-average C levels(2000-4000mg is average as far as I know).
What I meant was that regular multi-vitamins have way too little of everything you need.

In that case, I agree completely.  Crystal Light makes this alleged immunity-boosting thing with twenty four grams of vitamin C!  What, did they have it sitting next to an orange on the ride over to the grocery store?  By the way, the RDV for vitamin C is 60mg as I recall, but it's not unusual for supplements to have thousands.  There are some vitamins you can overdose on (like vitamin A), but C isn't one of them.  You probably knew that already.

Cholestoral isn't bad in general, it's a type of cholestoral that's bad.
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Why_is_cholestoral_good
Cross-reference - AHA: http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/Conditions/Cholesterol/AboutCholesterol/Good-vs-Bad-Cholesterol_UCM_305561_Article.jsp

Yes, low-density lypoproteins are harmful while high-density are helpful only in that they balance against the low-density.  Your body naturally makes cholesterol and doesn't need to ingest any.

This is also very interesting:

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http://health.ninemsn.com.au/whatsgoodforyou/theshow/693988/are-eggs-bad-for-your-heartI don't eat eggs much, but I do enjoy them.

Would you like a little arsenic with that? http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/home/49868991-75/arsenic-eggs-feed-levels.html.csp?page=1

I would have to disagree, it's not a parents responibility to maintain their kid's health, but rather to teach the kid to manage his own health.

That really depends on the age of the child, I'd say.

[-Archmage-]

Quote from: -Archmage- on Today at 01:48:36
How about hard facts from independent sources that can be fully cross-referenced. I don't trust Unions or large associations, and I never will. Not that I think they're totally wrong on everything.
I'm not really sure what you mean by "independent sources".  Like university studies?

Not linked to big unions/associations? Not that their view doesn't count it's just that I'd like to see some good cross-referencing from other sources.

Quote
It's not a book, it's on the internet.
Even more so.  Anyone can post anything they want on the internet as long as it doesn't violate laws... and still, they sometimes get away with it.

Well, as a third party to my Dad's health stuff, I can tell you it all works for him, it all makes good sense, and like most things it could be cross-referenced.

By the way, the RDV for vitamin C is 60mg as I recall, but it's not unusual for supplements to have thousands.

As a person who takes over 1000mg of Vitamin C a day I can tell you that is false, or whatever organization set that standard is pretty dumb.

Quote
Cholestoral isn't bad in general, it's a type of cholestoral that's bad.
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Why_is_cholestoral_good
Cross-reference - AHA: http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/Conditions/Cholesterol/AboutCholesterol/Good-vs-Bad-Cholesterol_UCM_305561_Article.jsp
Yes, low-density lypoproteins are harmful while high-density are helpful only in that they balance against the low-density.  Your body naturally makes cholesterol and doesn't need to ingest any.

 

Quote
This is also very interesting:

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http://health.ninemsn.com.au/whatsgoodforyou/theshow/693988/are-eggs-bad-for-your-heartI don't eat eggs much, but I do enjoy them.
Would you like a little arsenic with that? http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/home/49868991-75/arsenic-eggs-feed-levels.html.csp?page=1

I don't eat very many eggs(haven't eaten any in a few months...), so I'm not going to worry about that too much. Thanks though.

Quote
I would have to disagree, it's not a parents responibility to maintain their kid's health, but rather to teach the kid to manage his own health.
That really depends on the age of the child, I'd say.

True... I maintain my own health, many other kids/teens do not..

[John.d.h]

Not linked to big unions/associations? Not that their view doesn't count it's just that I'd like to see some good cross-referencing from other sources.

I'm not sure if this is the kind of thing you're looking for, but here's an eight-part series on youtube that outlines some of the reasons to not eat meat, so if you've got an hour to kill...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yResuAasCnA
There are a lot of things it leaves out, as it would take a very long time to cover everything, and it's a bit dated, but overall a good production, presented by experts in a variety of fields.

As a person who takes over 1000mg of Vitamin C a day I can tell you that is false, or whatever organization set that standard is pretty dumb.

IIRC, the RDV is based on the least amount you can get to avoid deficiency.  It's a sort of bad joke in many regards, especially considering the various factors that can inhibit nutrient absorption and utilization.

[-Archmage-]

Quote from: -Archmage- on Today at 05:22:10
Not linked to big unions/associations? Not that their view doesn't count it's just that I'd like to see some good cross-referencing from other sources.
I'm not sure if this is the kind of thing you're looking for, but here's an eight-part series on youtube that outlines some of the reasons to not eat meat, so if you've got an hour to kill...

There are a lot of things it leaves out, as it would take a very long time to cover everything, and it's a bit dated, but overall a good production, presented by experts in a variety of fields.

I've got about 2 hours of totally free time...
Just watched about 15 minutes of it. I don't eat much meat at all, and fat in the meat seems to be the main problem so I'll stick with the 90% lean stuff. I think the problem is more when you eat a lot of meat and keep up the habit. Would you agree?

Quote
As a person who takes over 1000mg of Vitamin C a day I can tell you that is false, or whatever organization set that standard is pretty dumb. Tongue
IIRC, the RDV is based on the least amount you can get to avoid deficiency.  It's a sort of bad joke in many regards, especially considering the various factors that can inhibit nutrient absorption and utilization.

Oh....

[John.d.h]

I've got about 2 hours of totally free time...
Just watched about 15 minutes of it. I don't eat much meat at all, and fat in the meat seems to be the main problem so I'll stick with the 90% lean stuff. I think the problem is more when you eat a lot of meat and keep up the habit. Would you agree?

I'd say that eating a little bit of meat is like smoking a little bit of tobacco.  Quitting altogether would be better, but reduction is a step in the right direction.  As far as leaner meat goes, it's bound to be better in terms of obesity and heart disease.  However, it's bound to still have the numerous other problems, such as depleting our fossil fuels, contaminating rivers and aquifers with toxins that cause birth defects, leveling our forests for pastures, creating desert by over-grazing, creating new and more resistant diseases, and making "slaughterhouse worker" the worst job in the country.  There's enough right there to write a book or several, and I haven't even touched on what the animals themselves go through.

Since this is getting interesting, I'm going to go ahead and split to a new topic.

[-Archmage-]

such as depleting our fossil fuels

We seem to disagree, I don't wanna talk about this simply because I can't remember why I disagree, I have a pretty bad memory, and it's been a while since I've even touched on this subject with anyone, so it's pretty covered in cobwebs. I'll talk to my Dad tomorrow(he's sleeping now...), because he doesn't seem to forget these things.

contaminating rivers and aquifers with toxins that cause birth defects

I really don't know anything about this. Explain?

leveling our forests for pastures

I'm pretty sure our forests are doing fine, come up to Maine, you'll see we've got an unlimited amount of open field and forestland, and we've got quite a number of farms.

creating desert by over-grazing

I have to say I doubt that has much truth to it, got a horse-farm right down the road, eat-poop, eat-poop, eat-poop, that's all they do. Same in all the farms around Maine that I've seen, cows, llamas, horses, eat-poop, eat-poop, eat-poop, they eat and then they fertilize. All the farms I've seen have nice lush grass with animals all over the place.

creating new and more resistant diseases

How exactly does that happen???

Since this is getting interesting, I'm going to go ahead and split to a new topic.

No offense but it's always funny when someone says: "I'm going to go ahead and", because it's very redundant.

[wyvern]

such as depleting our fossil fuels

We seem to disagree, I don't wanna talk about this simply because I can't remember why I disagree, I have a pretty bad memory, and it's been a while since I've even touched on this subject with anyone, so it's pretty covered in cobwebs. I'll talk to my Dad tomorrow(he's sleeping now...), because he doesn't seem to forget these things.

contaminating rivers and aquifers with toxins that cause birth defects

I really don't know anything about this. Explain?

leveling our forests for pastures

I'm pretty sure our forests are doing fine, come up to Maine, you'll see we've got an unlimited amount of open field and forestland, and we've got quite a number of farms.

creating desert by over-grazing

I have to say I doubt that has much truth to it, got a horse-farm right down the road, eat-poop, eat-poop, eat-poop, that's all they do. Same in all the farms around Maine that I've seen, cows, llamas, horses, eat-poop, eat-poop, eat-poop, they eat and then they fertilize. All the farms I've seen have nice lush grass with animals all over the place.

creating new and more resistant diseases

How exactly does that happen???

Since this is getting interesting, I'm going to go ahead and split to a new topic.

No offense but it's always funny when someone says: "I'm going to go ahead and", because it's very redundant.

The sahara is expanding due to overgrazing, and new diseases are forming and they are immune to modern medicines.

[John.d.h]

We seem to disagree, I don't wanna talk about this simply because I can't remember why I disagree, I have a pretty bad memory, and it's been a while since I've even touched on this subject with anyone, so it's pretty covered in cobwebs. I'll talk to my Dad tomorrow(he's sleeping now...), because he doesn't seem to forget these things.

A huge amount of the fossil fuel usage in the United States and the rest of the world goes toward animal agriculture.
http://www.care2.com/causes/environment/blog/new-un-report-says-vegan-diet-vital-to-saving-fossil-fuels-the-environment/
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/jun/02/un-report-meat-free-diet

contaminating rivers and aquifers with toxins that cause birth defects

I really don't know anything about this. Explain?

Animals poop a lot.  It all has to go somewhere.  Often, it goes into our waterways.  Part six of the video series covers it.
http://www.youtube.com/user/heylover3#p/u/57/t8-c-1SyEew

leveling our forests for pastures

I'm pretty sure our forests are doing fine, come up to Maine, you'll see we've got an unlimited amount of open field and forestland, and we've got quite a number of farms.

creating desert by over-grazing

I have to say I doubt that has much truth to it, got a horse-farm right down the road, eat-poop, eat-poop, eat-poop, that's all they do. Same in all the farms around Maine that I've seen, cows, llamas, horses, eat-poop, eat-poop, eat-poop, they eat and then they fertilize. All the farms I've seen have nice lush grass with animals all over the place.

Desertification is a problem mainly in Africa, where the ground is already dry and it doesn't take much grazing to turn a savannah into sand.  Deforestation is not a huge problem locally, but much of the rain forest that's being cleared in Latin America is for pasture land, and the United States imports hundreds of millions of pounds of meat from Latin America annually.  The extinction of plant and animal species in the rain forest is a direct result of our demand for meat.  

creating new and more resistant diseases

How exactly does that happen???

When livestock are kept in such close proximity and ankle-deep in their own filth, it creates a breeding ground for germs, so farmers use massive amounts of antibiotics on their animals.  If one strain of a virus happens to have a mutation that makes it immune to the antibiotics the farmers are using, it can reproduce wildly because it has no other microbes to compete with it.  Thus, we get a resistant form of a virus breeding like crazy and spreading to farmers and slaughterhouse workers, and then to the general population.  Bird flu, swine flu, and SARS all started in livestock and spread to human populations, and all were resistant to the treatments available at the time.  Consequently, all of them became near-global outbreaks.

[Omega]

I support eating meat!


Repeat after me John, Bacon is good.