Author Topic: *om nom nom*, or food and diet  (Read 9080 times)

Trappin

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Re: *om nom nom*, or food and diet
« Reply #50 on: 9 November 2010, 00:34:28 »
Government exists to protect citizens from threats of force and fraud. How far we allow those laws to extend into our private lives is where our differences become apparent.

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The new SF ordinance enables this odd paradox where one institution of government creates socially approved anti-fat laws/rhetoric while the other institution (academia) promotes fat liberation philosophy (fat people as a subset of the oppressed minority class). It will not modify the behavior of San Franciscans nor improve conditions at feed lots and stockyards. Mark Twain was right then as now, the happy meal toy ban is just an affectation worn for approval and applause of the progressive left.

San Francisco has one of the highest HIV/AIDS rates in the western world, residents are well informed and educated yet chose to engage in high risk sexual behavior. This is the result of 30 years worth of aids prevention courses and billions of dollars of medical out-reach programs and research.

Laws and regulations do not stop people from making poor choices.

Trappin

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Re: *om nom nom*, or food and diet
« Reply #51 on: 9 November 2010, 00:44:36 »
Pictures of abused animals or aborted bloody fetuses provides insight into the radical elements of our societies but converts very few people - indeed, it turns them away.

ultifd

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Re: *om nom nom*, or food and diet
« Reply #52 on: 9 November 2010, 01:36:32 »

 :dead: Yuck.

John.d.h

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Re: *om nom nom*, or food and diet
« Reply #53 on: 9 November 2010, 01:37:06 »
The way I see it, one shouldn't have to worry about "obesity" as long as they eat balanced diets, don't over eat, exercise, get enough sleep, etc etc. Meat has NOTHING to do with it.
Even when controlling for other factors, veg'ns are far less likely to be obese or suffer from high cholesterol, high blood pressure, or heart disease.  Nothing to do with it?
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You'll notice most professional athletes understand the importance of meat (not going into how much better it tastes over nuts and berries). Providing protein, ALL the amino acids, iron, and much much more nutrients, meat is a powerhouse.
It also provides saturated fat, cholesterol, estrogen, etc.  It's a powerhouse in the bad sense, too.  It's been shown pretty conclusively that even professional athletes, olympians, and bodybuilders don't need meat, as some of the best of all time have become champions without it.
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Sure it contains higher fat count than some vegetarian alternatives, but buy lean meat (I always do) and, as previously mentioned, eat balanced (for example, a burger can provide all food groups (and I'm not refering to some junky burger that you buy in packs of 20 at a store, but home-made burgers from ground beef. I can BBQ a mean burger)).
That mitigates (doesn't cancel out, but does mitigate) one of the problems with meat, but it does nothing against the many others.  If you're trying so hard to make a meat-eating diet less like a meat-eating diet, is that really any easier or better than just cutting out the meat to begin with?
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Other than the fat contents, another common excuse for vegetarians that I hear is about the "humanity of killing animals". What about the humanity of killing plants? :|
I don't think plants can contemplate suffering, agony, or terror.  Plants do not scream in pain.  Plants do not see their friends and family with their throats cut, thrashing in agony as they die in a pool of their own blood.  The animals we raise for food absolutely do.  Even if killing plants were unethical, eating meat causes many times more plants to be eaten because it takes up to 16 pounds of feed to produce one pound of edible flesh.  Either way, your argument loses.
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In all honesty, the animals are raised by humans in careful numbers for that purpose.
You seem to be suggesting that the meat industry regulates itself in a responsible manner.  If you'll buy that, I've got some ocean front property in Tibet you might be interested in.
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Their purpose is food, and there's nothing inhuman about it.
No, the purpose of an animal is to live, thrive, and reproduce.  Everything that is even remotely normal for a cow, pig, or chicken to do in life is completely subverted by farming.
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Just basic food chain. It's like how your cat catches that mouse, or how that wolf gets a deer. To put bluntly, it's just life.
You're comparing things that aren't even remotely similar.  Your cat isn't causing widespread habitat destruction.  That wolf isn't causing worldwide outbreaks of deadly diseases.  Crocodiles need flesh to survive.  We don't.
That's a very biased site....
What, you think that's rare?  Every time someone goes into a factory farm or slaughterhouse with a camera, they find the same kinds of cruelty.  This is downright typical.  How would you feel if dogs or cats were treated the same way?

Laws and regulations do not stop people from making poor choices.
I can't really argue with that, I suppose.  I'm not sure what else there is to do.  It's kind of a no-win situation, it seems. :-\
Pictures of abused animals or aborted bloody fetuses provides insight into the radical elements of our societies but converts very few people - indeed, it turns them away.
My experience tells me otherwise.  I don't know about you, but most of the veg'ns I know changed their habits as a direct result of being made aware of the cruelty involved in the meat industry.  Most of us already know these things are happening, but sometimes it takes something gruesome to shock us out of our complacency.  For me, that moment was when I cut open the package of a pound of ground turkey and torrents of blood came gushing out of it.  It wasn't that it was disgusting or that it made me nauseous, as I have an abnormally strong stomach.  Rather, it made me realize that what I was doing by funding the slaughter of that animal was the same as if I had cut its throat myself.

I find that the typical story of the veg'ns I know is summed up pretty well by this quote:
Quote from: Onision
It was a video that showed a bunch of guys surrounding an animal, and they were roping it off and the animal was screaming in pain.  I couldn't watch it.  I stopped three seconds in and in that moment I said, "You know what?  I cannot sit here and complain about this animal's suffering when I myself contributed to it."  Regardless of how the animal is killed, it's happening because you demanded it, because you paid for it, because you said "I need a supply of this.  I need to feed my family, even though I could feed them plenty of other things that wouldn't make us feel so dirty inside."

Why should any industry have to cover up their methods?  Why should anyone be afraid to see how their food got to their plate?  Why should anyone have to lie to their children about where their food came from?  I can't force anyone to eat a certain way, and ethically I wouldn't want to.  However, I believe everyone deserves to know the truth about what they're eating, what it does to their bodies, what it does to the environment, the suffering that it causes, and that it is all done so needlessly.  Everyone is free to make their own choices, but they have the right to make those choices based on truth instead of blissful ignorance.

Edit: Cleaned up some of the wording.
« Last Edit: 9 November 2010, 01:40:45 by John.d.h »

Trappin

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Re: *om nom nom*, or food and diet
« Reply #54 on: 9 November 2010, 03:27:10 »
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I can't really argue with that, I suppose.  I'm not sure what else there is to do.  It's kind of a no-win situation, it seems.

This is why libertarians oppose passage of morality laws and social reform legislation, these laws serve no purpose and are ineffectual at best and drain economic resources of government and private businesses. I just want people to stay out of our private affairs, what I chose to do with my life is my business but activists on both sides of the political spectrum refuse to accept this simple request.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/07/us/07fat.html?_r=1
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Domino’s Pizza was hurting early last year. Domestic sales had fallen, and a survey of big pizza chain customers left the company tied for the worst tasting pies.

Then help arrived from an organization called Dairy Management. It teamed up with Domino’s to develop a new line of pizzas with 40 percent more cheese, and proceeded to devise and pay for a $12 million marketing campaign. Consumers devoured the cheesier pizza, and sales soared by double digits. But as healthy as this pizza has been for Domino’s, one slice contains as much as two-thirds of a day’s maximum recommended amount of saturated fat, which has been linked to heart disease and is high in calories.

And Dairy Management, which has made cheese its cause, is not a private business consultant. It is a marketing creation of the United States Department of Agriculture — the same agency at the center of a federal anti-obesity drive that discourages over-consumption of some of the very foods Dairy Management is vigorously promoting.

« Last Edit: 9 November 2010, 14:08:30 by Trappin »

Omega

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Re: *om nom nom*, or food and diet
« Reply #55 on: 9 November 2010, 18:51:08 »
The way I see it, one shouldn't have to worry about "obesity" as long as they eat balanced diets, don't over eat, exercise, get enough sleep, etc etc. Meat has NOTHING to do with it.
Even when controlling for other factors, veg'ns are far less likely to be obese or suffer from high cholesterol, high blood pressure, or heart disease.  Nothing to do with it
Ok, straying away from science and into the merky realm of real life examples. I eat plenty of meat, and am the strongest and best shape person in my family. I have none of those things. My sister eats very little meat and isn't near as in shape.
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Re: *om nom nom*, or food and diet
« Reply #56 on: 9 November 2010, 19:11:52 »
The way I see it, one shouldn't have to worry about "obesity" as long as they eat balanced diets, don't over eat, exercise, get enough sleep, etc etc. Meat has NOTHING to do with it.
Even when controlling for other factors, veg'ns are far less likely to be obese or suffer from high cholesterol, high blood pressure, or heart disease.  Nothing to do with it
Ok, straying away from science and into the merky realm of real life examples. I eat plenty of meat, and am the strongest and best shape person in my family. I have none of those things. My sister eats very little meat and isn't near as in shape.

Me to, and i dont eat much meat, only on Taco :|

John.d.h

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Re: *om nom nom*, or food and diet
« Reply #57 on: 10 November 2010, 00:38:11 »
This is why libertarians oppose passage of morality laws and social reform legislation, these laws serve no purpose and are ineffectual at best and drain economic resources of government and private businesses. I just want people to stay out of our private affairs, what I chose to do with my life is my business but activists on both sides of the political spectrum refuse to accept this simple request.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/07/us/07fat.html?_r=1
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<snip/>
Frankly, I don't have enough background in this to argue either way, in favor or against, so I think I'll have to sit this one out as a neutral and undecided but interested observer.

Ok, straying away from science and into the merky realm of real life examples. I eat plenty of meat, and am the strongest and best shape person in my family. I have none of those things. My sister eats very little meat and isn't near as in shape.
Me to, and i dont eat much meat, only on Taco :|
As I recall, you're both in your teens.  I should dearly hope you don't have heart disease.  Maybe you'll never develop it, or any other terrible diseases.  I hope you'll still be in great shape when you're ancient.

You're in shape.  Great.  That's not that unusual for your age.  What if your metabolism slows down when you get older?  What if you have kids, and they're not so lucky?  There are plenty of people younger than you who do have these conditions, and who are morbidly obese, their parents getting told they'll never reach college age if they don't stop stuffing their faces with grease.  That's tragic.  It's also entirely avoidable.  What if I have children some day and they're not blessed with my father's metabolism?  (That's a very real possibility as they'll likely be adopted.)  What if their genetics and various other factors leave them predisposed to the various conditions that become aggravated by feeding on meat?  I won't have to worry about that so much, will I?

Maybe you're some of the lucky folks who can eat whatever they want in whatever quantity they want, and never gain a pound.  That's kind of how I am, and how my dad was.  In fact, I'm probably one of the last people in the world who needs to be worried about becoming obese.  Personally, I don't need to abstain from eating meat, and maybe you don't need to either.  As far as I can tell, there's not a remarkable difference in my health either way.  I'm a little more toned and a little stronger than I was a year or two ago, but I can't say conclusively that things would be different if I were still eating meat.  Now that I've said that, you may wonder what I'm getting out of being a vegetarian.

It's simple, really.  I'm mitigating the negative effect I have as a human being on the world.  I'm not contributing to sickness, suffering, and death in nearly the same way as I would if I still ate meat.  I'm not contributing to disasters like the Deep Water Horizon or outbreaks of diseases like swine flu in nearly the same way, either.  I recognized that I can be part of the problems of this world, or I can make the world a better place for future generations as well as myself by changing my behavior.  I realized that these things that are destroying our future are unnecessary.  I don't need to kill these animals in order to eat, nor do I need to pay someone else to do it for me.

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Re: *om nom nom*, or food and diet
« Reply #58 on: 30 November 2010, 19:08:31 »
i used to LOVE fast food from KFC or mcdonald's but i saw something changed my mind.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sG-9ju11zo0

i was absloutly and extremley shocked....

 i never ate it anymore ever.

in saudia it even came out at the newspapers. showing lots of abuse exposed in the fast food companies.

also the online newspaper okaz and sabaq showed it and a video of a foriegn doctor exposed a chicken industry.

i miss the old days. before this bird disaese came out. they used to sell chicken at stores. you see the cage. select a chicken by your OWN hand. instead of those sick ones at the industries.

theres still some clean fast food restaurants at saudia. they are very good. they becam rich as result of the exposion of KFC and mcdonald's. the health inspectors signed it

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Re: *om nom nom*, or food and diet
« Reply #59 on: 30 November 2010, 19:32:05 »
i used to LOVE fast food from KFC or mcdonald's but i saw something changed my mind.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sG-9ju11zo0

i was absloutly and extremley shocked....

 i never ate it anymore ever.

in saudia it even came out at the newspapers. showing lots of abuse exposed in the fast food companies.

also the online newspaper okaz and sabaq showed it and a video of a foriegn doctor exposed a chicken industry.

i miss the old days. before this bird disaese came out. they used to sell chicken at stores. you see the cage. select a chicken by your OWN hand. instead of those sick ones at the industries.

theres still some clean fast food restaurants at saudia. they are very good. they becam rich as result of the exposion of KFC and mcdonald's. the health inspectors signed it

All they need to do is give them 3 times as much space so they can walk around, and not try to breed them so fast. They could also use a skylight, or better a whole field to roam around in. I think they should go for healthy strong chicken with good meat, rather than fat ones with baby meat.
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the warlord of the reich

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Re: *om nom nom*, or food and diet
« Reply #60 on: 30 November 2010, 20:52:28 »
right. theres no fieeld toroam because chickens are not field creatures. better a barn or a big space. like my father when he was young he says chickens were unbelivably clean and healthy and strong and diffrent. they defend their eggs like a wilf animal and they were strong and healthy and they made good eggs. he says bring a real chicken from a real farm and a chicken from an industry. spread a few ceral and see what happens. the real one will immedietl devour it. the industriall will cowe back. and also old chickens from farms can confront wild cats and wolfs and snakes.

by now. look at this industry. father says. theres nothing in the world that god created is still same as itself after the industry and human colonies came.

ultifd

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Re: *om nom nom*, or food and diet
« Reply #61 on: 1 December 2010, 00:29:58 »
All they need to do is give them 3 times as much space so they can walk around, and not try to breed them so fast.
Too bad they're never going to do that... :/