open historical conversation

[the warlord of the reich]

that i have seen talking about WW2 aircraft was too minimum. i open thread about free talk for history.

lets talk about historical wars. not only aircraft. but ships and warriors of legends and tales and stories of mighty battles like battle of cannae.

as a start. lets talk about WW2 naval war and mighty ships. to.... you know. continue the aircraft and WW2 talk in the first topic.

also i'd like to talk more about medieval wars and battles and feudualism. this knighs of honor game drived me to love it so much. but lets finish the older conversation first

[Hagekura]

Hey,warlord have u ever seen this movie?


男たちの大和 YAMATO (2005)

Watch it,you'd like it.

[the warlord of the reich]

AWESOM

this battleship is very tough vetren of the entire war in WW2

it has probably the hugest bridge during the war

i love it. the yamato battleship was a furios ship during the war. the US had to send lots of dauntless and avenger to destroy it. it was very cool ship. it happens to be my favourite battleship during the war

[wyvern]

the Yamato was a nice shit and by the way it was helldivers not dauntlesses that attacked it, it is a very neat ship and has 18inch guns, but sometimes I wonder, wouldnt' two smaller battleships have been better

[the warlord of the reich]

yes. it was alone with no support but it toke a beating and survived it. its a survivor.

am sorry i never heard of this helldiver bomber. can you explain it more?

yamato were the heaviest and most powerfully armed battleships ever constructed, displacing 72,800 tonnes at full load and armed with nine 46 cm (18.1 inch) main guns

her sister the musashi was strong too! but both of musashi and yamato were attacked while alone. they bea down allied planes but eventually destroyed

Code: [Select]

[URL=http://www.almlf.com][IMG]http://www.almlf.com/get-12-2010-almlf_com_qovqod23.jpg[/img][/URL] yamato under attack off kure

Code: [Select]

[URL=http://www.almlf.com][IMG]http://www.almlf.com/get-12-2010-almlf_com_gntvay58.jpg[/img][/URL] yamato steering to avoid bombs and aerial torpedos in operation ten-go

Code: [Select]

[URL=http://www.almlf.com][IMG]http://www.almlf.com/get-12-2010-almlf_com_fvuttpmw.jpg[/img][/URL] Yamato on 24 October 1944 during the Battle of the Sibuyan Sea; she has just been hit by a bomb.

Code: [Select]

[URL=http://www.almlf.com][IMG]http://www.almlf.com/get-12-2010-almlf_com_uh9v92uo.jpg[/img][/URL]Yamato photographed during the battle by an aircraft from USS Yorktown (CV-10). The battleship is on fire and visibly listing to port.

Code: [Select]

[URL=http://www.almlf.com][IMG]http://www.almlf.com/get-12-2010-almlf_com_v343qi6w.jpg[/img][/URL] The explosion of Yamato's magazines

super battleship musashi

Code: [Select]

[URL=http://www.almlf.com][IMG]http://www.almlf.com/get-12-2010-almlf_com_72ge1via.jpg[/img][/URL] side picture for musashi

Code: [Select]

[URL=http://www.almlf.com][IMG]http://www.almlf.com/get-12-2010-almlf_com_u3rspqqs.jpg[/img][/URL] Musashi under attack by American carrier aircraft during the Battle of Leyte Gulf

[wyvern]

they didn't have air support you mean, the helldiver was meant to be the dauntless's replacement, though it could carry two thousand instead of one thousand pounds of bombs, had a bomb bay and two twenty mm cannons instead of two .50 cals it never reached the popularity or liking of its predecessor, the crews hated it and said its classification SB2C stood for "son of a bitch second class"

[-Archmage-]

You're navy didn't stop us, we took tons of islands with our marines! Our battleships were very good too.

[the warlord of the reich]

sorry i just red about in wikipedia. helldivers are replacments thats right

When it was introduced early in World War II, the Zero was the best carrier-based fighter in the world, combining excellent maneuverability and very long range. In early combat operations, the Zero gained a legendary reputation as a "dogfighter", achieving the outstanding kill ratio of 12 to 1. it was also called wonder weapon

Code: [Select]

[URL=http://www.almlf.com][IMG]http://www.almlf.com/get-12-2010-almlf_com_0vt2mipm.jpg[/img][/URL] A6M3 Model 32.

Code: [Select]

[URL=http://www.almlf.com][IMG]http://www.almlf.com/get-12-2010-almlf_com_pzuz9k3r.jpg[/img][/URL] zero taking off from carriar akagi to attack pearl harbor

as for planes.

i learnt more about them

devestators were very weak planes. kate was more better performance and usage. while devestators served fair in some early battles. but in the Battle of Midway the Devastators launched against the Japanese fleet were almost totally wiped out.

Code: [Select]

[URL=http://www.almlf.com][IMG]http://www.almlf.com/get-12-2010-almlf_com_46zv23os.jpg[/img][/URL] devestator picture.

it was replaced by the amazing grumman avengar.

Code: [Select]

[URL=http://www.almlf.com][IMG]http://www.almlf.com/get-12-2010-almlf_com_or9so4m3.jpg[/img][/URL]
[URL=http://www.almlf.com][IMG]http://www.almlf.com/get-12-2010-almlf_com_p6sb50jx.jpg[/img][/URL]
even the avenger was abit better then kate. trying to make it more better they added a redar to it in an attempt to make even more improved. avengers were amazing. they even served untill the 1960s

kate was used extensivly during the war. proved good. but however. there was new bomber came up. it was jill. with its amazing flying performance. jill was a very good bomber that was used as replacment for kate. jill was never displayed niley because it was made too late in the war and the US navy already had suporiority and the IJN had a huge shortage to experienced pilots. jill was able to perform better then it could.

Code: [Select]

[URL=http://www.almlf.com][IMG]http://www.almlf.com/get-12-2010-almlf_com_ow7hyzd3.jpg[/img][/URL] jill in flight

Code: [Select]

[URL=http://www.almlf.com][IMG]http://www.almlf.com/get-12-2010-almlf_com_srjcpx3d.jpg[/img][/URL]jill before starting engine

heres a replacment for zeros
Like the A6M, the radial-engined Ki-43 was light and easy to fly, and became legendary for its combat performance in East Asia in the early years of the war. It could outmaneuver any opponent, but did not have armor or self-sealing tanks, and its armament was poor until the last version, which was produced as late as 1944 Allied pilots often reported that the nimble Ki-43s were difficult targets, but burned easily or broke apart with few hits In spite of its drawbacks, the Ki-43 shot down more Allied aircraft than any other Japanese fighter and almost all the JAAF'S aces achieved most of their kills in it.

Code: [Select]

[URL=http://www.almlf.com][IMG]http://www.almlf.com/get-12-2010-almlf_com_ru0xebrp.jpg[/img][/URL] picture for Ki 43

helldivers were so amazing planes indeed. heres pictures for it

Code: [Select]

[URL=http://www.almlf.com][IMG]http://www.almlf.com/get-12-2010-almlf_com_x0giu9mk.jpg[/img][/URL]
[URL=http://www.almlf.com][IMG]http://www.almlf.com/get-12-2010-almlf_com_0ayn6y7i.jpg[/img][/URL]
[URL=http://www.almlf.com][IMG]http://www.almlf.com/get-12-2010-almlf_com_t62wq9m4.jpg[/img][/URL]

no more to say oveer here

waiting to read more replies

[Hagekura]

You're navy didn't stop us, we took tons of islands with our marines! Our battleships were very good too.

Hey yankee,your marines couldn't take Rabaul till the end of the war.
Because my grandfather fought at there(he was a tank crew).
He survived the war and returned japan safely(he is still alive),so I am alive too.thank goodness! 

btw Yamato was the biggest and the best battleship of the history.US couldn't have such a big ship because of panama canal restricted US ship's size.

probably the best battleship US had was the IOWA class battleships.

but she is a... she isn't a so beauteous ship.

and here's Yamato.Wow...look,she's so beautiful... yamato was not only biggest but the most beautiful ship of the world!

[the warlord of the reich]

i'd say too! yamato was so beutiful. huge bridge. big front. nice guns. but, ummm. is this its picture? its bridge looks abit smaller in the piture.

iowa class was not beutiful as yamato.

oie! wrong. US navy ships was'nt better then the IJN's. US navy had more carriars but IJN had less but MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH stronger carriars. like akagi. shikoku. and i think houston was best US ship...

yamato dropped down alot of airplanes along with musashi.

yamato had a huge AA number of guns. it was an amazing battleship. it also had a torpedo bay!!!!

it was both agile and heavy and armoured and destructive at the same time.

its a fact that both UK and US had no better battleships then the IJN had. marines were just no factor in the war.
the aircraft and bombers clear the way. and they run to rise the flag up in a "glorious day". if the marines will be just sent straight forward without the coastal defenses out. they'll be wiped out before they even reach shore.

marines did small battles in guadalcanal. no biggie. it was all by air. most japanese troops died by banzai and US just shoot them while they charge

great! you had a family member joined in a great war too?

my great grandfather fought in WW1 with the saudian arabian rebels and loyalists against the ottoman invasion. he died in a small battle which nobody realy knew where he died. damascus perhaps?

he was in a small rebel force which joined the war against the ottomans.

glad to know about your grandfather fought in the war!

nope. tow smaller ships wouldnt be better. so they made 2 huge super battleships muashi and yamato,

musashi was attacked alone. no support and aircover. it defeated alot of enemy planes. same as yamato

umm. theres a little request i dare ask you. is there any possibilties you might be alittle faster replies? i am bored and i keep waiting for more replies. meanwhile. i get bored. i want to write more!

cheers. great topic is this

[wyvern]

A little info on the devastators at midway, they got wiped out because of the lack of fighter escorts, the kates were well escorted in their successful missions. the ki-43 was a ground fighter and was older, not newer then the zero.

You're navy didn't stop us, we took tons of islands with our marines! Our battleships were very good too.

I agree
by the way,the US couldn't or didn't feel like wasting live on attacking the japanese on rabaul when they could be bypassed and cut off, also do you know what tank he worked in ,most japanese tanks sucked, no offense meant,
the yamato was not that good, two battleships of lighter weight would be better then one huge one, it only had some sort of radar guidance on its main guns and like other japanese ships, lacked the critical medium anti air artillery, like the british and american 40mm bofors or german 37mm. the only time battleships torpedoed each other was when the rodney torpedoed the bismarck, the yamato did not shoot down that many planes and both it and the musashi were with a large amount of other ships when attacked, they still got sunk , the IJN's carriers were roughly the equal of american carriers and the japanese navy also suffered from nearly none existent anti submarine defense, as did their convoys., need i remind you that the US and UK had lighter battleships, superior AA defense and radar guided cannon, they were far superior to the japanese in such technology. The UK had the best carriers nearly without a doubt . The marines fought very well and smashed the japanese, while air support helped with artillery and naval guns they took many bunkers out with flamethrowers and flame tanks, they also sealed their caves with bulldozer tanks. , two smaller ships with say 15inch guns would be better, because they would have more accurate faster and greater attacks and damage rate. When it is said that the japanese navy was superior to the americans and british it is not greatly true.
Its nice to know many peoples ancestors fought in the great wars, my great great grandfather was a russian general in WW1, and my grandfather lived through ww2.
a fact about the japanese anti air defenses on ships versus american and british AA defenses
UK+USA=20mm, 40mm and 4.5-5 inch AA guns, latter two radar guided
IJN=25mm, 100mm and 5inch, none of them radar guided

[the warlord of the reich]

radar? japanese had those good biplanes to scout around,

and also that the number of AA and flak on those 2 sister ships was HUGE especielly at the yamato.

musashi was attacked when it was alone. infront of its fleet. its fleet was in the back musashi was alone completley.

yamato was attacked alone near an islan. the USS yorktown sent its planes in a desprate attempt to destroy it while its alone.

the japanese fleet was awesome. much more numbers. better carriars. heard of kaga? it had 3 decks. an huge number of planes to carry. alied planes said after an attack on it "we barley scratch the paint"

it was a carriar powerful enough probably its deck wont be broken by a dive bomb.

about that supioriority in radars. how could the light and "low level" kates and vals wont destroy and sink the carriar lexington? and destroy sevrel other ships. watch this video how could all those planes hit the alied ships without its feul tanks caughting lots of fighter. told ya zeros are agile enough to avoid fire.


marines do small jobs. bunkers tanks etc etc.

the real business was in air and sea

infantry was bigger manner in europe.

US carriars were not as good as the IJN's. yorktown was alittle good. but lots of US carriars was damaged alot by kamikaze.

betty bombers were heavily escorted if needed to be used. and it toke a huge role in kamikaze. carrying small rockets that bieng shot into enemy causing lots of damage to the ships

cheers! faster replies plz

[wyvern]

the kaga got itself sunk by dive bombers,

it was a carriar powerful enough probably its deck wont be broken by a dive bomb.

so this is bull.
It was unarmored.
the movies was kinda nice but the planes got shot down most of the time, this is showing most of the few successful attacks, also a lot of those explosions are quite possibly just the fuel blowing up in the kamikaze plane, despite the large amounts of it the japanese flak was not very accurate and there weren't any medium AA guns. also they're not avoiding the fire they're charging through it and a lot of them are getting hit and shot down.
The musashi was with its fleet, the yamato was with a light cruiser and multiple destroyers, neither was alone
the US produced more had better technology and its carriers carried just as many if not more planes then the japanese carriers, obviously both the US and IJN sacrificed armor for the cheapness and speed of construction, the UK had the best carriers in my opinion and if you look at their successes. marines conquered those islands, even Guadalcanal fell despite a lack of much naval support, plus the USS washington, sank a japanese battleship, the kirishima, and a destroyer mainly because of its radar guided guns, the US lost three destroyers but thats not a bad trade for a battleship ,when you say rockets, you mean the ohka right, well very few of those were actually fired at ships due to their betty getting shot down. also the planes sent to attack the Yamato were from many, not few carriers.

[the warlord of the reich]

kaga was sank by dive bombers? wrong. it was DAMAGED by bombers. it survived the bombers and held strong. but it wasdamaged and slowed down. so the other ships had to scuttle her so it wont slow them down and so it wont fall to US hands

bettys got shot down in that proccess? hard to belive. the rockets were long range but if not mistaken they had too few feul.

bettys dident try to go close they throw away the rockets and run.

in the video there was sevrel success. i saw and you saw at the 2:10 there was i checked by my own eyes a kate or jill bomber carrying a torpedo flying awfully slow through all te AA firing at it. it even hit without getting shot at.

yamato was supported in its fight? i dont realy know.

musashi you meybe right was supported by something but its still outclassed in this fight. its entire fleet was in its back far away. it was foolish to advance so far.

mainly the radar was gonna support but the battleship was doing perfectly fine without it.

though i must be able to get alittle confidence here. bettys gotta get close to the US fleet? i think what i saw at the video at 3:01 there was some werd looking big plane falling down on fire. it hada wing on fire meaning it had 2 engines so it was a randy or a bomber. the plane was falling down slowly so it was with big chances as you said a betty bomber.

marines their succes was raising flags over fields for pilots to land. destroying the ships and the assulting planes and cannons was a ship/aircraft business. thats why infantry had 20% business in the entire pacific. both IJN and US

infact the IJN carriars were most of i bigger. more amazing construction and they even made light carriars could you imagine it?

there was like 300 japanese VS 10000 US navys. because the japanese carriars were extremley short and few. while US had less and no big amazment or oerformance carriars, lexington was sunk by a kamikaze pilot

once the japanese carriars they started making a long run back to the islands. unsupported by the carriars. when the japanese planes came back they dident find the carriars they were supposed to land on that the US bombers sank and destroyed. the japanese pilots started to land on water

look here how the kaga looks.

Code: [Select]

[URL=http://www.almlf.com][IMG]http://www.almlf.com/get-12-2010-almlf_com_v45mvf0s.jpg[/img][/URL] kaga conducting sea operations

Code: [Select]

[URL=http://www.almlf.com][IMG]http://www.almlf.com/get-12-2010-almlf_com_l4ylp43n.jpg[/img][/URL] kaga with its amazing three decks

heres more other good IJN carriars

shoho light carriar

Code: [Select]

[URL=http://www.almlf.com][IMG]http://www.almlf.com/get-12-2010-almlf_com_4bged2dy.jpg[/img][/URL] shoho under attack

Code: [Select]

[URL=http://www.almlf.com][IMG]http://www.almlf.com/get-12-2010-almlf_com_sd3yi752.jpg[/img][/URL] shoho side photo

zikaku

Code: [Select]

[URL=http://www.almlf.com][IMG]http://www.almlf.com/get-12-2010-almlf_com_yf9ydan5.jpg[/img][/URL]
zikakou and kaga towards attacking pearl harbor

shokaku

Code: [Select]

[URL=http://www.almlf.com][IMG]http://www.almlf.com/get-12-2010-almlf_com_r73nbg78.jpg[/img][/URL] normal photo. no fights sorry.

about more information.

the IJN was much 99% better navy and it was experienced. the IJN constructed world's heaviest battleship yamato and constructed the world's first aircraft carrying purpose ships and it was completed in 1922 and it was called hosho and it survived the entire war with a good record for any old carrier and designed jet planes in the war before US had any. and the IJN designed the world's first all-big-gun battleship and designed the world war's biggest submarine the l-400 was the largest submarine in world war 2

the IJN started in the early medieval period. starting to a glorious conquest to a series of experienced and very powerful diffrent ships and marines and naval power

Code: [Select]

[URL=http://www.almlf.com][IMG]http://www.almlf.com/get-12-2010-almlf_com_n529afoy.jpg[/img][/URL] Japan's first domestically-built steam warship, the 1866 Chiyodagata.

Code: [Select]

[URL=http://www.almlf.com][IMG]http://www.almlf.com/get-12-2010-almlf_com_xf4c3weg.jpg[/img][/URL] Naval battle of Dan-no-Ura in 1185.

Code: [Select]

[URL=http://www.almlf.com][IMG]http://www.almlf.com/get-12-2010-almlf_com_c92jo47l.jpg[/img][/URL] The landing of the Japanese marines from the Unyo at Ganghwa Island, Korea, in the 1875 Ganghwa Island incident.

Code: [Select]

[URL=http://www.almlf.com][IMG]http://www.almlf.com/get-12-2010-almlf_com_t2ai8apm.jpg[/img][/URL] Satsuma, the first ship in the world to be designed and laid down as an "all-big-gun" battleship

Code: [Select]

[URL=http://www.almlf.com][IMG]http://www.almlf.com/get-12-2010-almlf_com_y44cl9oj.jpg[/img][/URL] The British-built RyÅ«jō was the flagship of the Imperial Japanese Navy until 1881.

Code: [Select]

[URL=http://www.almlf.com][IMG]http://www.almlf.com/get-12-2010-almlf_com_we6z05as.jpg[/img][/URL] Kanrin Maru, Japan's first screw-driven steam warship, 1857

Code: [Select]

[URL=http://www.almlf.com][IMG]http://www.almlf.com/get-12-2010-almlf_com_vj0jbigi.jpg[/img][/URL] The torpedo boat Kotaka (1887)

Code: [Select]

[URL=http://www.almlf.com][IMG]http://www.almlf.com/get-12-2010-almlf_com_fso4h306.jpg[/img][/URL] A 1634 Japanese Red seal ship, combining eastern and western naval technologies

Code: [Select]

[URL=http://www.almlf.com][IMG]http://www.almlf.com/get-12-2010-almlf_com_lem25d5z.jpg[/img][/URL] The French-built Kotetsu (ex-CSS Stonewall), Japan's first modern ironclad, 1869

Code: [Select]

[URL=http://www.almlf.com][IMG]http://www.almlf.com/get-12-2010-almlf_com_waek7iwz.jpg[/img][/URL] Hosho, the first purpose-designed aircraft carrier in the world, completed (1922)

Code: [Select]

[URL=http://www.almlf.com][IMG]http://www.almlf.com/get-12-2010-almlf_com_kkjizudv.jpg[/img][/URL] An Imperial Japanese Navy's I-400 class submarine, the largest submarine type of World War II.

Code: [Select]

[URL=http://www.almlf.com][IMG]http://www.almlf.com/get-12-2010-almlf_com_iwhed9iu.jpg[/img][/URL] Japan's first jet-powered aircraft, the Imperial Japanese Navy's Nakajima J9Y Kikka (1945).

Code: [Select]

[URL=http://www.almlf.com][IMG]http://www.almlf.com/get-12-2010-almlf_com_qoh3zkvu.jpg[/img][/URL] The Japanese seaplane carrier Wakamiya conducted the world's first sea-launched air raids in September 1914.

Code: [Select]

[URL=http://www.almlf.com][IMG]http://www.almlf.com/get-12-2010-almlf_com_62vysseg.jpg[/img][/URL] Yamato, the largest battleship in history, in 1941.

hagekura, you should catch up with us in this conversation to keep your pace with the talk line. right our talk is taking a turn point towards the IJN and carriers. i dont realy know it sems like

cheers!

[wyvern]

the kaga sank at midway, it was sunk with the akagi and soryu, overwhelmed by dauntlesses. the ohka was not particularly long ranged and it was usually shot down before they reached the firing off point. the japanese lacked light carriers in large amounts and the few they had were low quality like the US jeep carriers As I said the shots showed in the film were mainly the successful, obviously not the unsuccessful attacks, for your info, nearly none of the old carriers were sunk because they had secondary roles like aircraft transport. radar was quite necessary, the medium and heavy AA batteries on US and UK ships was bloody accurate, more then can be said for Japanese gunnery against ground and air
While the infantry had less of a job they still built airfields and secured territory, their construction was at first equal then worse then US construction of ships not to mention the awesome british ships. Lexington was sunk by a huge amount of japanese bombers at the battle of the coral sea. the americans beat the japanese from april 1942 onward, they smashed them, outnumbered or not. , the japanese didn;t have domestic parts for their jets they only had german engine technology, plus the US had the comet being tested by that time, it was in the berlin victory parade. also bigger is not always better and the japanese still had poor technology and their super huge weapons achieved on the verge of nothing , also the first all big gun warship was the british dreadnought, warlord I have a suggestion, get your facts straight before presenting stuff. The best aircraft carriers were british, boasting 3 inches of deck armor, huge radar guided AA batteries and 60+ aircraft, the US comes second, some of their carriers had over 90 aircraft but no armor, lastly is the IJN, their standard fleet carriers carried between 70 and 90 aircraft but lacked armor radar or decent AA defense, they initially had well trained crew, but later with combat losses were unable to train or replace pilots fast enough or with equally good training unlike what the US and UK was capable of doing, they were also inneficient in logistics, they lacked large amounts of anti sub ships or technology, most of their shipping and many warships were sunk by US and UK subs by the end of the war.

[wyvern]

Fun WW2 facts(I won't mention those previously said):
first jet aircraft in official military service is the gloster meteor.
worlds greatest fighter ace of all time is Germanies Hartmann with 365 kills.
worlds greatest tank ace of all time is Germanies Kurt Knispel with 168 kills.
first military use of radar by the british.
greatest sniper of all time is Finlands Simo Hayha with 505 sniper kills and possibly as much as 200 smg kills.
heaviest tank(self propelled guns not included) is the koenigtiger.
last great use of cavalry anywhere.
Britain's last great bayonet charge by the seaforth highlanders.
First and only use of nuclear weapons in combat.
Around 50 million people killed
greatest invasion of all time, germanies operation Barbarossa.
largest seaborne invasion of all time, the allies operation overlord
Last major ship versus ship combats in history.
Last major use of biplane fighters, these include the British Gladiator, the Soviet i-15 chaika, and the Italian Cr-42.
First great use of aircraft carriers and naval battles fought without ships seeing each other.
first assault rifle in use is Germanies stg 44
More facts are to come, I like this topic

[the warlord of the reich]

look. the IJN's carriars were bigger

three decks and you say only 70 planes? huh

my source about the all big gun is wrong then

anti submarine? they had subs bigger then UK or US had

and YOU should get some of your facts right

kaga was'nt sunk at midway. it was SCUTLED in the way back home

"super huge weapons achived the verge of nothing"? huh

lets start a test. iowa class VS yamato.

radar not effective

kamikaze zeros VS radar AA

not effective

radar AA VS okha rockets

NOT EFFECTIVE

kaga:

Length: 247.65 m (812 ft 6 in)
Beam: 32.5 m (106 ft 8 in)
Draught: 9.48 m (31 ft 1 in)
Installed power: 127,400 shp (95,000 kW)
Propulsion: 4-shaft Kampon geared turbines
8 Kampon Type B boilers
Speed: 28 knots (52 km/h; 32 mph)
Endurance: 10,000 nmi (19,000 km; 12,000 mi) at 15 knots (28 km/h; 17 mph)
Complement: 1,708 (after reconstruction); 2,016 (total)
Armament: 10 × 1 – 200 mm (7.9 in) guns,[2]
8 × 2 – 127 mm (5.0 in) guns,
11 × 2 – 25 mm (0.98 in) AA guns
Armor: Belt: 152 mm (6.0 in)
Deck: 38 mm (1.5 in)
Aircraft carried: 90 (total); 72 (+ 18 in storage) (1936)
18 Mitsubishi A6M Zero, 27 Aichi D3A, 27 Nakajima B5N (+ 9 in storage) (Dec. 1941

happy are we now?

sunk by a huge amount of "weak vals and kates who had no self sealing tanks and no armor and were shot by radar AA"

yamato was sunk by a huge amount

kaga was attack by a huge amount and won

musashi was sunk by a huge number of squads

i like this topic too

cheers!

check my other parody topic if have time

[wyvern]

first off I said seventy to ninety, second of all you are counting planes in storage which take a relatively long time to build, third off while wikipedia states it was scuttled over a third of the crew was lost and the whole ship sunk after, what, four hits, that doesn't say much about its sturdiness, also the Kaga was sinking when the japanese decided to scuttle her not on the way home as you are claiming , it lacked proper armor and your sources are even proving my point that it lacked medium AA weapons and radar , the US and UK submarines were superior though and the japanese didn't have the means to catch them, unlike the US and UK which with a few exceptions sank them quite promptly. You are also basing your claims on the inneffectiveness of radar guided AA guns on a few clips of successful attacks not on the big picture that statistics show, hundreds of aircraft were shot down by the allies great anti air gunnery. ohka rockets relied on the betty for transport so usually got shot down, they were often gunned down by AA guns or missed, very few of them reached their targets. Iowa vs Yamato you say, thats a roughly even fight, the yamato is heavier by a lot, has heavier weapons and armor, but lacks much inf any radar guidance on its weapons thus there is a huge chance that it would be struck far more by the Iowa then it would in return fire. You should base your ideas on overall results not on a few limited successes. The Kaga was attacked by a small amount of dauntlesses and couldn't be saved if the japanese didn't scuttle her she would sink in a matter of hours and couldn't be saved by towing her back. The Yamato and Musashi were faced by a huge amount, true, but, they both had a lot of support from other ships and due to poor AA gunnery failed to cause much damage to the attacking force Do you know how much damage US submarines did to the japanese, nearly sunk all of their shipping and multiple cruisers and aircraft carriers, the US only lossed the sinking yorktown and the wasp out of their major ships.

[Gabbe]

Anyone seen wikileaks cold war documents, some are obviously fake but overall I found it interesting and entertaining

[the warlord of the reich]

yeah right.

Yamato had fire control. It had radar directed guns. Although not as accurate. Fired its shells in an area. The Yamato had the best turning radius. The best stability. The shells that plunge even at short range ( and had ability like a torpedo). It had effective 6 inch guns ( if good trained crew). It could take lots of punishment. All its secondary guns could do more damage and had better range than Iowa secondary guns.

meybe you should get your facts more right next time

saying that IJN ships never and wont have any radar control guns is like saying that if tow countries go to war both wont expand their weapons and advance them to overwhelm the enemy's army and attempt to fight at better chances

zeros are exellent planes WITHOUT any doubts, it has an incredible feul tank. real agility. i toke one of world's greates fighters at the war, it was a lethal dogfighter which IJN will probably lose the war much quicker without it, the zero can outfly and outfight ANYTHING the allies had, it can fly for 1900 miles without a refill

all IJN fighters and bombers were made to be agile and fast and menouverble. like ninja

USA made them to be all round but never seem to success properly..... trying to combine armor and powerfull guns and speed and agility in one plane is extremley hard. so allies dont gain their purposes. theres always weak points

USA navy's AA if it was as good as you say it would have not lost lexignton and other ships and transporters....
and also countred back attacking kamikazes with ease

IOWA is a piece of crap for a head on fight with yamato....

[wyvern]

yeah right.

Yamato had fire control. It had radar directed guns. Although not as accurate. Fired its shells in an area. The Yamato had the best turning radius. The best stability. The shells that plunge even at short range ( and had ability like a torpedo). It had effective 6 inch guns ( if good trained crew). It could take lots of punishment. All its secondary guns could do more damage and had better range than Iowa secondary guns.

meybe you should get your facts more right next time

saying that IJN ships never and wont have any radar control guns is like saying that if tow countries go to war both wont expand their weapons and advance them to overwhelm the enemy's army and attempt to fight at better chances

zeros are exellent planes WITHOUT any doubts, it has an incredible feul tank. real agility. i toke one of world's greates fighters at the war, it was a lethal dogfighter which IJN will probably lose the war much quicker without it, the zero can outfly and outfight ANYTHING the allies had, it can fly for 1900 miles without a refill

all IJN fighters and bombers were made to be agile and fast and menouverble. like ninja

USA made them to be all round but never seem to success properly..... trying to combine armor and powerfull guns and speed and agility in one plane is extremley hard. so allies dont gain their purposes. theres always weak points

USA navy's AA if it was as good as you say it would have not lost lexignton and other ships and transporters....
and also countred back attacking kamikazes with ease

IOWA is a piece of crap for a head on fight with yamato....

about radar, the yamato had some primitive radar for only its main guns, second of all the post wildcat US fighters were far superior to the zero. I severely have doubts of the zeros capabilities, the hellcats, which according to you are "inferior" slaughtered them with ease, the p-38 was meant for speed and firepower, it also slaughtered zeros really cheap, the two seat firefly shot down zeroes as well and I haven't even reached the corsair, it was faster, well armored, could knock a zero down with a few .50 cal hits had near equal range and could carry 2000, then 4000 pounds of ordnance against the zeroes 500 or something, plus 1900 miles is only achievable with external fuel tank, not with just internal fuel , the zero was an okay fighter early war, poor in mid war and near worthless, in the wars final years , the US and RAF fighters were all around very good as were the german and USSR fighters, the japanese fighters on the other hand were good and occasionally excelled in maneuverability and range but lacked the firepower, speed and armor to keep up with the times, maneuverability decided combat in WW1 but in WW2 it  was decided by speed and firepower which japanese fighters lacked, The Yamato barely took more punishment then the 3/5 of its weight Prince of Wales, its endurance was in no way extraordinary, its cannon lacked accuracy and the medium artillery was about equal to anything the allies had but not superior and it was in open casemates making it vulnerable to strafing and HE bombs, the US fighters were extremely efficient in suppressing AA fire by strafing the anti air positions and killing the crew, in my honest opinion the order of technology in varying aspects is as follows the first one is in my opinion best, last one is worst,
Air fighters-US, RAF and Germany tied, USSR and Japan tied, Italy.
Air bombers-US and RAF tied, Germany, Italy, Japan, USSR
ground attack aircraft-RAF and US tied, Germany and USSR tied, Italy, Japan.
Aircraft carriers-UK, USA, Japan, for others this is N/A
Battleships-USA and UK tied, Germany and Japan tied, Italy, USSR
destroyers-USA and UK and Germany all tied, Japan and Italy tied, USSR
cruisers-USA and UK tied, Japan, Germany, Italy, USSR
Subs-USA and UK and Germany tied, Italy and USSR tied, Japan.
light tanks-USA, USSR, Germany, UK, Italy and Japan tied.
Medium tanks-Germany and USSR tied, UK, USA, Italy and Japan tied,
Heavy tanks-USSR and Germany tied, UK, USA, for others N/A
Armored cars-UK and Germany tied, USA, Italy, USSR, Japan
Logistics-USA, UK, Germany, USSR, Italy, Japan
training-UK and Germany tied, USA, USSR and Japan equal, Italy
Anti tank guns-Germany, UK, USSR, USA, Italy and Japan
radar-USA and UK, Germany, USSR and Japan, Italy=N/A
What do you think, pretty fair judging huh, I think the best medium tank of ww2 was the comet and the best heavy tank its probably the IS-2

[the warlord of the reich]

you are taking wildcats and P-38s as holy and masterpieces...

dude. mid war? it was like 1946 when they knew how fight zeros and now your sorrying me for wildcats shooting down zeros?

no way. wildcats is a workhorse. its a lazy plane hardly agile and well armored thats all

yamato had radar controls. iowa had but whats the point of its long range without bieng able to shoot accuratly

late in the war where zeros and IJN stuff were useless they become verry effective in this kamikaze,  sinking down alot of US ships

ohka rockets were hardly shoot dude! it was missiles with jet engines thats even probably 10 battleships will hit it

even corsairs were not as good. they were mid-low for zeros, but it h nice wings and huge engine

yamato can respond very quickly to anything because of its agility and large modern bridge

OMG the corsair will shoot down zero easy but as i told you zeros can turnaround and easily menouver and pwn the corsairs tail, thats bye bye for corsair. zeros are hardly hit with menouver. it planted a true fear and cowardice in alot of allies even late in the war that fear was still on result of kamikaze

cheers!

[wyvern]

you are taking wildcats and P-38s as holy and masterpieces...

dude. mid war? it was like 1946 when they knew how fight zeros and now your sorrying me for wildcats shooting down zeros?

no way. wildcats is a workhorse. its a lazy plane hardly agile and well armored thats all

yamato had radar controls. iowa had but whats the point of its long range without bieng able to shoot accuratly

late in the war where zeros and IJN stuff were useless they become verry effective in this kamikaze,  sinking down alot of US ships

ohka rockets were hardly shoot dude! it was missiles with jet engines thats even probably 10 battleships will hit it

even corsairs were not as good. they were mid-low for zeros, but it h nice wings and huge engine

yamato can respond very quickly to anything because of its agility and large modern bridge

OMG the corsair will shoot down zero easy but as i told you zeros can turnaround and easily menouver and pwn the corsairs tail, thats bye bye for corsair. zeros are hardly hit with menouver. it planted a true fear and cowardice in alot of allies even late in the war that fear was still on result of kamikaze

cheers!

the wildcat had better firepower then the zero but it was also older, the p-38 was fast, well armed, had good range, was twin engined and had okay armor, the only superior aspect of the zero was its maneuverability which could be easily by passed by hit and run which the zero couldn't dodge, survive or intercept, it was like mid 1942 when they were beating zeros with wildcats the hellcat was near untouchable by the zero, also, if the zeroes so good, explain the marianas turkey shoot to me, hundreds of shot down japanese planes, two dozen or so shot down american planes, the kamikaze also never sank a major ship, they sanks a couple of small escort carriers and some picket destroyers, your grossly over estimating the effect of kamikazes, they were only good for under armored destroyers and light carriers, on the battle ships, cruisers and british aircraft carriers, they wouldn't make a scratch, both the Iowa and Yamato have good range but the Iowa has superior gunnery radar, meaning that in a fight it will score multiple hits for everyone the Yamato scores , A fact about ohkas, very few were actually sent up, almost all had their betty carrier shot down and most of those that were launched got shot down, very few ever hit a target. What do you mean the yamato can respond quickly, that sentence doesn't make sense. The allies feared the kamikaze because they thought it was crazy that someone would do such a thing, not because it had a high success rate. The corsair was near invulnerable against the zero, here let me make a nice good comparison of the two craft the model A6m5 zero, versus F4U-1A corsair(later ones had multiple changes)
Zero:1,130hp engine, 351mph top speed, 1194 mile range without drop tank, 551lb carry capacity if kamikaze, 2x20mm low firing rate cannons, 2x7.7mm machine guns, great maneuverability, very light armor.
Corsair:2,250 hp engine, 425mph top speed, 1,015 mile range without drop tank, 2000lb carry capacity, 6x0.50 cal machine guns, good maneuverability, pretty heavy armor.
The corsair is superior in engine power, speed, carry capacity, armor, and firepower, the zero has better maneuverability and slightly better range. also, for you information, the a6m5 zeroes speed performance is about equal to the spitfire 1 which appeared in 1939, but is from the year 1944, if compared with fighters of its period its hopeless, if the earlier a6m2 is compared with its 1941-42 peers like the spitfire V and IX, the focke wulf 190 and the messerschmitt 109F it is also near hopeless, it was a under average fighter with better range

[the warlord of the reich]

its a fact zeros are able to outfight and outfly anything the allies had in the whole start intro of the war untill they had better planes

zeros have long range and an exellent tanks and it was a DOGFIGHTER

its a fact, can be changed by okay or good or fine

it was a masterpiece that was called a wonder

late in the war they dident have any good pilots to man zeros else it will beat down alot better

effect of kamikaze was better then sending the bombers all in to attack with barley a diffrence then kamikaze but this time its not crashing at ships

zeros were lost at the last day. so they made into a verry effective weapon that damaged and sank US ships

yeah right. one shot by yamato's main guns can sink iowa in lets say no matter of time. yamato CAN defeat iowa, and also iowa had much weaker armor

yamato can respond by its agility to outmenouver a torpedo dropped from 50 or 20 yards away, makes sense

ohka were jet engined. i can out run and betty bombers had to stay out of range or it wil just hav loads of flak shells will just explode by with low acuraccy because of the long range, radars will help the range but wont help effeciency shooting from afar

zeros were amazing creations of fear infested in allies hearts, no doubt at this,

the fear was in the kamikaze will hit them or not, but it was 50% success for kamikazes. somehow

cheers!

[wyvern]

its a fact zeros are able to outfight and outfly anything the allies had in the whole start intro of the war untill they had better planes

zeros have long range and an exellent tanks and it was a DOGFIGHTER

its a fact, can be changed by okay or good or fine

it was a masterpiece that was called a wonder

late in the war they dident have any good pilots to man zeros else it will beat down alot better

effect of kamikaze was better then sending the bombers all in to attack with barley a diffrence then kamikaze but this time its not crashing at ships

zeros were lost at the last day. so they made into a verry effective weapon that damaged and sank US ships

yeah right. one shot by yamato's main guns can sink iowa in lets say no matter of time. yamato CAN defeat iowa, and also iowa had much weaker armor

yamato can respond by its agility to outmenouver a torpedo dropped from 50 or 20 yards away, makes sense

ohka were jet engined. i can out run and betty bombers had to stay out of range or it wil just hav loads of flak shells will just explode by with low acuraccy because of the long range, radars will help the range but wont help effeciency shooting from afar

zeros were amazing creations of fear infested in allies hearts, no doubt at this,

the fear was in the kamikaze will hit them or not, but it was 50% success for kamikazes. somehow

cheers!

50% success where do you get your info all of my sources place their hit rate at somewhere between 10% and 35%. Also, other then a few cases it was only minor damage, You think the Yamato is so amazing, it barely survived more hits then the HMS Prince of wales, which is roughly half its weight as is the Iowa which has better technology good guns and armor. The Yamato is only famous for its size, it never achieved anything of value in its career. The zero, a wonder, , it could only maneuver, it was a plane for WW1 not WW2 where tactics stopped depending on dogfights, but they depended on speed, firepower, and survivability, Zero pilots even feared early b-17s because they could barely shoot them down and the B-17 could gut them with ease, the zero was worse then nearly all fighters it faced with the exception of the buffalo, maybe the hurricane, wildcat, and p-40, all were considered second rate by their users, the zero was hopeless against its peers of the time period that were of the same time and not 5 years older. it couldn't match the hellcat, spitfire, focke wulf, me 109 or mosquito or p-38, or p-47 or p-51 or typhoon or firefly. some even got shot down by beaufighters, trainers and blenheims. the zero was crap for the time, its maneuverability would have been good in WW1 not in a period where speed and firepower decided all. The zero also failed to adapt to the times, unlike the spitfire and me 109. radar guidance was amazing, the US ships had wonderful precision for the time, which the japanese couldn't match. The brits had the best aircraft carriers without a doubt, in the pacific, the best tank was undoubtedly the matilda, it was small enough for jungle combat, invulnerable to japanese shells its gun can take out any japanese tank and it sometimes had a flamethrower.