Author Topic: open historical conversation  (Read 24887 times)

the warlord of the reich

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Re: open historical conversation
« Reply #100 on: 1 February 2011, 16:47:51 »
nope. only 100 lost in WW2

dude i told a hundred times 300 of them saw combat. rest were scrap metal. or stolen. or bombed on the ground

how about those aces:

Major Erich Rudorffer (born 1 November 1917) is a German former Luftwaffe fighter ace, one of a handful who served with the Luftwaffe through the whole of World War II. He is 7th most successful fighter pilot in the history of air warfare, and currently both the oldest jet fighter ace, and the most successful ace still living. Rudorffer claimed a total of 222 victories, fighting in all the major German theaters of war, including the European and Mediterranean Theater of Operations and the Eastern Front. During the war he flew more than 1000 combat missions, was engaged in aerial combat over 300 times, was shot down by flak and enemy fighters 16 times and had to take to his parachute 9 times. His 222 aerial victories include 58 heavily armoured Il-2 Sturmovik ground attack aircraft. He was also responsible for sinking a British submarine.

Alois Wosnitza (17 November 1914 – 13 December 1982) was a highly decorated Oberfeldwebel in the Luftwaffe during World War II. He was also a recipient of the Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross. The Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross was awarded to recognise extreme battlefield bravery or successful military leadership. During his career he flew 1217 missions, during which he was credited with the destruction of 104 tanks, 2 armoured trains, 12 bridges, and two aerial victories.


Gordon M. Gollob (16 June 1912 – 8 September 1987) was a German fighter pilot and flying ace in the Luftwaffe from 1938 to 1945 during World War II. He rose to the position of General der Jagdflieger, and was one of only 27 to receive the Knight's Cross with Oak Leaves, Swords and Diamonds. Gollob was credited with 150 aerial victories—that is, 150 aerial combat encounters resulting in the destruction of the enemy aircraft—achieved in 340 missions. He recorded 144 victories over the Eastern front. Gollob was the first pilot in aviation history to claim 150 aerial victories.

Erich Alfred Hartmann (19 April 1922 – 20 September 1993), nicknamed "Bubi" by his comrades and "The Black Devil" by his Soviet enemies, was a German World War II fighter pilot and is the highest-scoring fighter ace in the history of aerial warfare. He claimed 352 aerial victories (of which 345 were won against the Soviet Air Force, and 260 of which were fighters) in 1,404 combat missions. He engaged in aerial combat 825 times while serving with the Luftwaffe. During the course of his career, Hartmann was forced to crash-land his damaged fighter 14 times. This was due to damage received from parts of enemy aircraft he had just shot down or mechanical failure. Hartmann was never shot down or forced to land due to fire from enemy aircraft, scored 352 kills. at a youthfull age!

Hans-Ulrich Rudel (2 July 1916 – 18 December 1982) was a Stuka dive-bomber pilot during World War II and a member of the Nazi party. The most highly decorated German serviceman of the war, Rudel was one of only 27 military men to be awarded the Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross with Oak Leaves, Swords and Diamonds, and the only one to be awarded the Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross with Gold Oak Leaves, Swords and Diamonds.

Rudel flew 2,530 combat missions claiming a total of 2,000 targets destroyed; including 800 vehicles, 519 tanks, 150 artillery pieces, a destroyer, two cruisers, one Soviet battleship, 70 landing craft, 4 armored trains, several bridges and nine aircraft which he shot down using a stuka

Hagekura

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Re: open historical conversation
« Reply #101 on: 2 February 2011, 02:36:59 »
If you want to learn about some serious WWII stuffs,I suggest you buy or lent some books of historians or real soldiers who joined the war,rather than crawling over internet and pick some garbages.

For warlord,if you interested in nazi-third reich and Japanese Imperal army,I recommend you to read these books.

"Invasion! They're Coming!" by Paul-Carell(ex-Obersturmbannführer of SS)
http://www.amazon.com/Invasion-Theyre-Coming-Landings-Schiffer/dp/0887407161

"Grenadiers" by kurt meyer(ex-Generalmajor of Waffen-SS)
http://www.amazon.com/Grenadiers-General-Stackpole-Military-History/dp/0811731979

"The History of the 12. SS-Panzerdivision Hitlerjugend" by Hubert Meyer(ex-Obersturmbannführer of SS)
http://www.amazon.com/History-12-SS-Panzerdivision-Hitlerjugend-set/dp/0921991185

"Supplying War: Logistics from Wallenstein to Patton" by Martin van Creveld(Historian of Israel)
http://www.amazon.com/Supplying-War-Logistics-Wallenstein-Patton/dp/0521297931

"Inside the Third Reich" by Albert Speer(ex-Minister of Armaments and War Production of Nazi-Third Reich)
http://www.amazon.com/Inside-Third-Reich-Albert-Speer/dp/0684829495

"Das boot" by Lothar-Günther Buchheim(ex-officer in a propaganda unit of Kriegsmarine)
http://www.amazon.com/Das-Boot-Boat-Lothar-G%C3%BCnther-Buchheim/dp/0304352314

"Samurai!" by Saburo Sakai(ex-Zero fighter flying ace of IJN)
http://www.amazon.com/Samurai-Saburo-Sakai/dp/0743412834
Bushido to iu wa shinu koto to mitsuketari.

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wyvern

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Re: open historical conversation
« Reply #102 on: 2 February 2011, 02:53:02 »
"Samurai" is a book I want to read but a lot of my info comes from a large collection of military tank, ship and aircraft books my dad has. Other good books include "The Ghost Major" a biography of major stirling and the early SAS and "Stuka pilot" by Hans-Ulrich Rudel. I can think of some others but don't really have time to post right now.

Mr War

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Re: open historical conversation
« Reply #103 on: 2 February 2011, 07:34:15 »
Anne Frank's diary is a good starting point for reading about WWII. http://www.amazon.com/Anne-Frank-Diary-Young-Girl/dp/0553296981

I met someone recently who was part Jewish and lived in occupied France during WWII, and although their tale is less harrowing than Anne Frank's, it is extremely humbling to meet someone who has lived through that sort of fear. Millions of people have, in many wars and still do today in some shapes and forms, but I expect most of us have not. War is best confined to computer games, the real think completely sucks.  :'( :'( :'( :'(

the warlord of the reich

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Re: open historical conversation
« Reply #104 on: 2 February 2011, 16:03:02 »
crawling over the internet picking some garbages? thats not very nice.

FINE change the subject. i will be greatly thankful if we talk about world war 1 zeppelins. i think they were the biggest thing to make evrey british be scared to s**t. really. they were gignatic bombers. near invelunarble. and successful.
« Last Edit: 2 February 2011, 17:26:34 by the warlord of the reich »

wyvern

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Re: open historical conversation
« Reply #105 on: 2 February 2011, 20:37:57 »
zeppelins were big and hard for airplanes to catch by flying to high altitude but suffered from several defects. they were very vulnerable to the weather, they were slow, big targets and did not carry much of a bombload when compared to the gothasa and handley pages, especially when one considers how big and expensive they were. The tanks of WW1 were somewhat faulty to say the least, the british trench crossers from the mkI-VIII are the most popular and while having decent crosscountry ability and lots of firepower and fear effect were still vulnerable to and big targets for artillery. The german A7V were better armed and armored but lacked reliability and had terrible cross country ability. The french tanks such as the saint chamond and char d' assault were little more then assault guns and lacked mobility, cross country ability, armor and well placed firepower. The tanks that truly pointed to the future were the british whippet, germ LII, and especially the french ft17 all of which were more reliable, faster had greater range and something at least resembling a turret.

Gabbe

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Re: open historical conversation
« Reply #106 on: 2 February 2011, 20:59:45 »
Anne Frank's diary is a good starting point for reading about WWII. http://www.amazon.com/Anne-Frank-Diary-Young-Girl/dp/0553296981

I met someone recently who was part Jewish and lived in occupied France during WWII, and although their tale is less harrowing than Anne Frank's, it is extremely humbling to meet someone who has lived through that sort of fear. Millions of people have, in many wars and still do today in some shapes and forms, but I expect most of us have not. War is best confined to computer games, the real think completely sucks.  :'( :'( :'( :'(

Yeah, sucks, but thats humans. Did you know shimpanzees and humans are the only species that wage war?

wyvern

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Re: open historical conversation
« Reply #107 on: 2 February 2011, 21:07:04 »
but most animals fight in some way so we humans aren't unique in that.

Gabbe

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Re: open historical conversation
« Reply #108 on: 2 February 2011, 21:39:06 »
CHimps group up all the males in their tribe and go savage on other tribes, eating babaies and molesteling other males. Ripping of their testicles and tearing up the front of the body. Humans do similar stuff and we don`t just fight, but wage war against rival tribes.

Hagekura

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Re: open historical conversation
« Reply #109 on: 2 February 2011, 21:51:10 »
I love zeppelin too. :thumbup:
Not as a weapon,but it's a crystal of a man's dream,human's dream.
A one genius dreamed of the beautiful gigantic flying beings,the man's name was Ferdinand Graf von Zeppelin.

He invested his own fortunes and launch an airship company,eventually he successfully made the flying giants.

I must say only the rigid-airship is the Airship!non-rigid airships are suck.

The zeppelin airship had came to japan!

ツェッペリン伯号帝都上空に飛来す
The Zeppelin airship arrives the sky upon of Teito(Imperial Capital).

I imagine how surprised the citizen of Teito to see the gigantic airship.

If only US allowed germany to import helium gases.US banned exporting helium to germany.
they had to use highly flammable dangerous hydrogen gas.and tragedic accident of the Hindenburg occured.
if there was not the accident,golden age of these elegance giants of the air lasted longer.

Farewell for old good days...
Bushido to iu wa shinu koto to mitsuketari.

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the warlord of the reich

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Re: open historical conversation
« Reply #110 on: 2 February 2011, 22:22:13 »
lol. looks like even monkeys had a world war 1.... i guess the zeppelins were supposed to be giant black monkeys jumping around throwing rocks at night? lol. are there famous monkey generals? i want to learn monkey wars.

i must somewhat agree with wyvrn. british had great tanks though trench bypassers. are not so strong as those german "mobile fortresses" the germans tanks seemed as if truelly mobile forts. they are filled with guns. coming out of evrey side of the tank. all in guns. though i am fraustrated why you have'nt mentioned the russia tanks. though few. they were very odd looking.
i adore zeppelins. and slow? they were as light as the air itself. it had a very long operational range. invelunarble. extreme and ultra altitude. heavily armed and armored. it had hydrogane not helium :) and big all AA guns stuffed all over it. it rquired hundreds of incidenary ammunation to be shot down at all. IF they ever find it in the clouds, or a 20,000 feet. the coat of the zeppelin was not made of simple layer of gauze :) also good luck. hoping to reach it up and shoot without getting your gun frozen or atleast you yourself turn into a piece of ice :O and AA guns proved poorly against zeppelins. and usually out of range. zeppelin carries about 2000 KG of bombs. and yes.... zeppelins are proved very velunarble to weather. how ever. zeppelins were fearsom weapons. capeble of travelling all the way to britain. and accurate bombing runs. zeppelins had a nice accuracy in its bomb runs. that man invented zeppelins was a german too! proof to all the good brians in germany.
« Last Edit: 2 February 2011, 22:32:16 by the warlord of the reich »

wyvern

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Re: open historical conversation
« Reply #111 on: 3 February 2011, 01:02:46 »
the german tanks were not more armed then the british tanks but had better armor, the russians didn't have tanks in WW1, at least, none that were used.
The zeppelin was unarmored and for its size underdefended and slow, though the hydrogen was very hard to ignite, they were replaced with normal bombers for a reason though,. they were slow, worse defended and once fighter control got better bombers, whether the gotha or the handley page had large resilience to the twin mgs on fighters due to their size.

the warlord of the reich

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Re: open historical conversation
« Reply #112 on: 3 February 2011, 01:34:56 »
actually there was this prototype:
Code: [Select]
[URL=http://www.almlf.com][IMG]http://www.almlf.com/get-2-2011-almlf_com_ncz277ow.jpg[/img][/URL]
dude. i totally dont belive your underistmating german tanks yet AGAIN! well. heres a big time fact: the german
A-7V was the very best tank of the entire war. best armor. carrying 57mm/L26 [180]+ 6 MGs and takes the 2nd place in highest speed tank with 12 KMPH and an enurmous frontal armor of 30MM which no other tank possessed at the time, and entirely best side armor of 20MM and the very best roof armor of 15MM to avoid artillery shells, it was a whole masterpiece. by the way. slow. yet invelunarble. bing much higher altitude to be hit with AA and heavily defended with AA guns placed below, above. rear and front. no place is ideal for striking.
« Last Edit: 5 April 2016, 15:40:41 by filux »

Hagekura

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Re: open historical conversation
« Reply #113 on: 3 February 2011, 01:51:11 »
lol. looks like even monkeys had a world war 1.... i guess the zeppelins were supposed to be giant black monkeys jumping around throwing rocks at night? lol. are there famous monkey generals? i want to learn monkey wars.
Could you explain me flatly,what's the true motive about you write the statement,please? :|
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the warlord of the reich

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Re: open historical conversation
« Reply #114 on: 3 February 2011, 01:54:22 »
the big load of funny comments above there.

Hagekura

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Re: open historical conversation
« Reply #115 on: 3 February 2011, 06:22:31 »
The big load of funny comments?oh,It's fine.hmn,funny comments. :|
So is it a reply for gabbe and wyvern's talk?if so,it's not my problem. :angel:
funny comments are okay.I like funny things.like this clip.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlmGknvr_Pg
Bushido to iu wa shinu koto to mitsuketari.

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the warlord of the reich

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Re: open historical conversation
« Reply #116 on: 3 February 2011, 11:01:05 »
dident get its point. is it against hitler? dont forget were going offtopic now. just alittle more of these comments then we stop posting more of them so we dont go very offtopic.
« Last Edit: 3 February 2011, 11:03:13 by the warlord of the reich »

Mr War

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Re: open historical conversation
« Reply #117 on: 3 February 2011, 12:06:43 »
Comedy has a lot to offer history study, it often highlights subtleties that some more linear history books miss. Or not so subtle in the case of hitler. Charlie chapplin's  film the great dictator is very educational and funny about hitler, if only people in western powers had been less pacifist in the thirties the war could have been avoided

wyvern

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Re: open historical conversation
« Reply #118 on: 3 February 2011, 19:40:36 »
actually there was this prototype:

dude. i totally dont belive your underistmating german tanks yet AGAIN! well. heres a big time fact: the german
A-7V was the very best tank of the entire war. best armor. carrying 57mm/L26 [180]+ 6 MGs and takes the 2nd place in highest speed tank with 12 KMPH and an enurmous frontal armor of 30MM which no other tank possessed at the time, and entirely best side armor of 20MM and the very best roof armor of 15MM to avoid artillery shells, it was a whole masterpiece. by the way. slow. yet invelunarble. bing much higher altitude to be hit with AA and heavily defended with AA guns placed below, above. rear and front. no place is ideal for striking.
True it had lots of armor but while adequate against light field guns like those on british tanks, it was unable to survive heavier artillery or aerial bombs, the one tank engagement of mk IV's versus A7V ended without a winner, and say I'm underestimating german tank, I am but those are the facts of war, not to mention that I think that the only good tanks, including the LII which didn't get into service, the whippet and the ft17 were the pointer to the future, not the british, nor french nor german monsters.

Mr War

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Re: open historical conversation
« Reply #119 on: 3 February 2011, 22:23:17 »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IglUmgYGxLM

Hagekura man, I love monty python. You might find this one funny too.  :D After that blackadder final scene I need something to lighten the mood anyway.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rupg2XJ4z50

the warlord of the reich

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Re: open historical conversation
« Reply #120 on: 3 February 2011, 22:42:02 »
now dude! mk IV was extremelly light armored. velunarble to infantry. while bieng armed with 4 MGs. A7V had 6. placed carefully also MK IV had 2 57MM and slow speed. quiet slow. made it velunarble to shells. and by the way. it would end with A7V winning. it will quickly move through MK IV's fire without harm due to its enurmous armor. and good speed considring to a WW1 tank. it will then use its many guns to hole the MK iv's light armor. all british MK tanks were classified as armored personnel carriers. not tanks! meaning their purpose was just to carry the british soldiers inside them through no mans land. thats all. the A7V was quiet a reall mobile fortress.

wyvern

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Re: open historical conversation
« Reply #121 on: 3 February 2011, 23:10:42 »
actually no, british tank were combat vehicles and with 15mm of armor, they could easily survive normal infantry weapons, they were very slow but not any slower then the A7V and had greater cross country ability, the A7V had better armor but only on 57mm compared to a mkIV male had 2 plus 3 mgs, while the A7V was better in the defense, the fight it had with the mkIV ended in the mk IV and 3 A7V's both withdrawing the mk IV with 1 dead due to splinters, the A7V with several wounded due to splinters. Both were hit by enemy fire but survived relatively intact, the other problem with the tanks guns was that the german tanks had very few if any AP rounds as did the british tanks and even when they did the muzzle velocity was too low to penetrate armor while the HE round was too light to penetrate through sheer explosive power. The A7V's mgs were not so carefully placed and neither were the mkIV's the tank that pointed to the future was the whippet, ft17 and LKII with their forward mounted armament in rudimentary turrets.

the warlord of the reich

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Re: open historical conversation
« Reply #122 on: 4 February 2011, 00:19:27 »
A7Vs had their MGs placed well. on evrey side. countering infantry is easy. it would exterminate any infantry coming. also all except one MK tanks were slower then A7V and all had a way WAY weaker armor ::) not to mention most of them had their anti-infantry pointed only forward. MK tanks had quiet a poor sight. it was low. A7V had a tower where a trooper can watch from it. also its shape allows it to cross stretchy and small areas. while MK tanks are too wide.

well. i agree in the combat result... though when it comes to infantry. MK loses. it will be overrun and captured. you can stick a pistol through its small line of looking and shoot! wow. also sturmtruppen had no hard time disabling them. they had AT guns and grenades. sturmtruppen were speciliezed to annihlate entrenched enemies and also destroy armor. they were nicelly equipped. aswell vetrans. and fearsom shock troops. best choice to elimnate enemy trenches while outnumbered

the warlord of the reich

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Re: open historical conversation
« Reply #123 on: 4 February 2011, 02:59:16 »
woooooooooooooah!!!! my heart stopped when i was watching this~!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry for the big time capital posting recently. just having fun around. cheerish your lifes! since comedic history is educational. ok

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrdIXtSWFnA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CETao1ECIdc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfkDxF2kn1I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RaGMrbJAIzU
I WAS DYING I WAS DYING I WAS DYING WHEN I WATCHED THIS  :O :O :O :O :O :O OH MY GOD MY CHEST LITTERLY PAINS I DONT THINK I EVER LOVED HITLER SO MUCH AFTER WATCHING THIS AWESOM OMG I CANT STOP KAUGHTKING OMHG WOIW THUS OS FUN OH GOD OH GOD OH GOD PLZ STP THIS FUNNY ABOMNATION IT SURELLY KILLED SOMEONE



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwXpp-ygyKU
EVEN ARAB VERSIONS OF IT!
« Last Edit: 4 February 2011, 03:27:10 by the warlord of the reich »

Omega

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Re: open historical conversation
« Reply #124 on: 4 February 2011, 05:03:14 »
Reminder:

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