Author Topic: open historical conversation  (Read 24889 times)

wyvern

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Re: open historical conversation
« Reply #50 on: 4 January 2011, 01:16:08 »
do you know wurferhmen? one of the best rocket artillery. it would bomb off katyushas like shooting turkeys. it was slightly and defnitley better then katyusha. much much better.

hmm. the 101st airborne got their ass kickd by the fallschirmjagers. and even more armored and light divisons fell victims of the elie fallschirmjager. terrfying the allies. they flee quickly when facing off with fallschirmjagers that actually armed with powerfull tank assault guns and very well armed with automatic guns and heavy infantry cleaning machine guns. the allies learnt how to respect the fallschirmjagers without taking any step forward.

british army sucked. seriously. no offense but it HAD sucked. with weak an untrained army of regulars and weaker paras armed with mostly WW1 guns they were tottaly disadvantaged to every german troops.

errrm. panzer IV had an extra armor by attaching armor to its flanks. so i declare it the best medium tank with high speed and very high volocity gun and powerfull armor it deserves the best medium tank in te war. equipped with a nice long range 70MM gun with legndary precise shots (best of the war) and panzer lll was an other top light tank,, hunting flanks and assaulting infantry. it results that it had came atop one of the best light tanks of WW2

seriously.. seriously. SERIOUSLY. what kind of sonar or depth charge can actually destroy it while its deep within? it was submerged also once you'll be charging towards a sub, you'll be sinking before that you realize that there was a sngle torpedo fired, using sonar means you'll have to charge towards the sub and try to keep it in sight while it can go deep leve and run away and you still think its there, nothing was able to outfight them, even planes carrying depth charge could'nt do that. and I-400 was a high performance and the planes were impressive, they'll carry depth charge and bomb off USA subs off to little bits.

nah bofors gun was a completley weak damage with usually very light shells. the epic stukas were able to rush withing 50% of its range before it will respond and go into action, though fast planes were like trashing down and waling over bofors and the m16 gun you talked about is crappy aswell, it was usually light ammo so every typ of light or fighter bombers can take it completley before it starts doing serious damage, dont forget that its slow responding at aiming.

t34 was like junked down, trashed, killed, ultra killed, slaughtered by tigers, tigers had an amazing legendery 88MM gun with high vvolocity and even highher acuraccy and top range, it was arguably the best, flanked or not in reality it takes 3 shermans to only flank it but the shermans or still doomed, and in reality it toke 7-10 shermans to take out 1 tiger, tiger was a legend of war. a dreadfull foe tha inspired a large terror an fear and wrecked complete havoc in alied ranks.... and it was the dream of every tank crewmen, tigers when appeared, the next 2 following years after the tiger showed up, there was nothing as strong as it, there was litterly not a single type of anti-tank in the world can destroy it. it was a top supertank of legends. good luck with your sucidal tiger flanking attempt in the phase where you'll have to run through a field under fire by a very extended long range and high acuraccy gun firing from afar, shermans were very weak aarmor and had a very light gun either a low range for a medium tank like that, it was honestly, a crap tank. it was'nt designed to face off tanks at all. and it was urgently designed with poor scales and quality only to replace the even crappier and worse lee tanks, then cames the even more legendary tiger king.... it inspired a true fear this time, the allies run and flee in terror once they hear of any tigers in the field, one tiger could take out thousands of infantry in a single phase with a nice anti infantry defense, tiger was the businass. allied generals had to extremley cover alot of intelligance from their officars and armies to not wreck avoc amongst the ranks like saying "he tigers were destroyed by our thunderbolts YAY" or saying "germans ran outta tigers" to keep their amies from panicking completley, most of every allied tanks dident keep its crews safe. alot of shermans were seen dead on the field, but it looks like not damage  or on fire, it seemed abandoned, though once they checked it inside they found the dead crew inside has been chopped and picked to little bits after a sheell passed through the halll. alot of allied tanks same thing occures to it, weak armor dident provide them a chance to survive a shell from nearly any tank. also shermans ha a large reputation for burningg.




this is fun right? i think its not like all days your gonna have someone to talk about history with. i like sharing and talking about history. we're living in a coward dull world. lets curse peace AND START AN ANOTHER WORLD WAR! :thumbup: YEAH
you mean the panzerwerfer or the stuka su fuss, both were nice, I have a model of the panzerwerfer but neither were better then the katyusha and they were built in very very small numbers.

Actually the 101st barely fought the fallschirmjager and when they did they usually won ::). The fallschirmjager had good weapons, but their armor support was usually just stugs and they got beat a lot, at Crete, they lost about what, 1 in 4 troops, and at Monte Cassino they got beat by the fearless and courageous Poles, they were however, brave themselves and were undoubtedly Germany's finest troops.

The british army was probably the best, world war 1 weapons like what, the Lee Enfield No. 4, then which war was the kar98k from ::), if I remember correctly, it was from WW1 too and it served the germans throughout the whole of WW2 as the infantries main weapon. The british sten was no worse then the mp40 and the bren was an amazing LMG used by the brits en masse, the vickers was old but reliable, and the piat was a wonderful AT weapon.

The panzer IV had 80mm front and what, 30-40mm side armor, thats less then the sherman, it was worse then the t34/85, sherman 76 and comet, it was a great tank nonetheless. The panzer III weighed far more then other light tanks like the stuart and chaffee while being too light to fight mediums, only the last versions with the L60 cannon had a chance against enemy medium tanks, it was a poor tank by most standards.

depth charges can be dropped to those depths with ease, and sonar would find the sub. The I-400 was nothing and its planes could maybe bomb what, a tug boat, it was too heavy to fight other subs while not having any particular skills to make it useful in anything.

the bofors was a great medium range AA gun, actually superior to the german 37mm, the m16 was light calibre but at a short range, its mass of machineguns could put up a huge wall of firepower that no aircraft could survive. and when you says it has slow response, realize that so did every german AA system.

The t34 was half the tigers weight and with the 85mm it could take the tiger out head on. the tigers 88 was in fact, inferior to the panthers 75mm and the 17lb gun in penetration.
I won't argue the shermans crappiness but the tiger could be taken out with a massive multitude of weapons, many available in 1943 when in appeared, these could kill it at the time of its appearance, 17lb gun, 6lb gun, 75mm from the flank, 3 inch AT gun, 85mm gun, russian and american 57mm from the flank and russian 76.2mm from the flank, not so invulnerable anymore, also, when you say its impossible to flank a tiger, realize that it was done by mere chaffees that raced past them before they even turned their turrets and then blasted it to the afterworld :P :P :bomb:, Also, while nothing was as strong as it, it is also a fact that nothing was as heavy or unreliable as it was. Tigers and kingtigers were very vulnerable to air attack of all kinds and the reputation of the tiger is based on the exploits of a few master tankers, this is the same for the ISU-152 which could however, rip the turret off a king tiger in one hit.
Fun fact:the 37mm on the aircobra fighter could take out a tiger.

the warlord of the reich

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Re: open historical conversation
« Reply #51 on: 12 January 2011, 13:53:56 »
wrong. you know what is a 88? its a legend of the war. the most famous gun in the war. its a dual porpuse gun. it would destroy a tank with no difficulty head on with a single shot and a very high explosion. meanwhile. its able whipe out all air offensives while having tea. one shot from it would set b-17 on fire. and more guns like that were made. while allies had weak crap like camel guns and bofors guns. nothing great. sturmvoiks were very weak actually. and germany achived air domanation over russia. sturmvoiks would be shot down like turkey as they were old designs and weak could be ripped off by an outdated anti-air gun it was slow and underpowered. also nor allied bombers were strong. even flying fortresses were shot down like turkeys by IJN aircraft and luftwaffe's focke wulfs. britian had fragile outdated wellington bombers. lancasters were easy shots. you hit their engine and they're dead. also a trainee pilot would have no trouble shooting the pilot. its pilots were exposed to enemies.

panzerwerfer and wurferahmen. truelly more able then katyusha. they were both able to mass blow alot of enemies at once with a largley and tremendously big explosive rockets. their rockets are definatly bettter then katyusha. panzer werfer is heavily armoured along with wurferahmen. katyusha would get broken apart by a fire cracker explosion near it. also wurferahmen and panzerwerfer were creating lots of panic to the enemy with their sheer explosives.

chaffees are sick tanks. also flanking a tiger in open fields isa serious joke. yeah. any dumb tank crew would try to do that will be DEAD! theres something called ballestics. even without it. tiger would make a nice looking piece of junk and burnt iron from that chaffee. even without accurate shots. tiger's explosive would kill anything. its able to make doors through walls and concentration. king tiger would be not destroyed even by a straight accurate rocket hit it. it can sit back. have tea while shooting hundreds of infantry and tanks with that ultra beast gun.

japanese did alot more sub operations more then ever. this was a joke. also I 400 carries alot of torpedos. able to accalearate very fast and its armour is well know for its extreme torpedo rsistance. it can takeout PT boats and destroyers by going off to the surface and shoting a nice artillery barrage would easily punch a destroyers armor.

by the way. you whole radar guns talk was a joke. i checked it all japanese ships HAVE radars mounted. yamato is far far capeble to beat an iowa. iowa is strong but still far beyoned bieng able to fight and sink yamato. also the AA on iowa is far weaker. the AA on yamato is legendary... nearly 50 guns of mass destruction to air. yamato would sink hundreds of planes in no time. and would sink alot of ships in no time. it has lots of artillety and a HUGE torpedo bay. yamato's AA capebilities were legendary. they were able to hit individual targets instead of iowa's minimum strength of targeting a single enemy and concentrating on it. yamato would fire thousands of shells and bullets on air targets in few seconds. its armor is far beyoned bieng sank by an iowa. nor destroyers guns were weak. yamato had an uncontrollable fire on its board which sank it. it was heavilly shelled before they would sink it. iowa's only advantage is alittle more longer range guns and faster. the speed gives it a chance ONLY to disengage at will. yamato was on fire when the crew was ordered to abandon ships. the ship was set on fire for a very long time before it explodes to to an anti-fire preventing powerful system. an iowa left on fire would explode in a matter of minutes. also yamato is able to scout and punch off subs from it. it has alot and alot of catapult based planes stuffed in it.

the poorly armed british were definetly no match to all axis troops. axis had both bravest and strongest and toughest troops while british were weak paras and weak infantry very poorly armed rarley equipped with automatic weapons. their paras were also weakly armed and have no ability to take on tanks at all. they have no anti-tank capacity. the fallschirmjager. sent the allied troops fleeiengwith mass destruction and strength. even armor learnt that they must stay away from them. historically fallschirmjagers were best anti-tank infantry of the war. the best militia were the volkstrumm. volkstrumm were teaching tanks a lesson about going away from them. theres no way for a T-34 to take out a tiger or a king tiger. though T-34 was a great piece of work. it was'nt good enough to face off something like a tiger. crappy allied tanks were used untill the end of the war. they were stupid enough to keep them without upgrading any of them. cromwells. matildas. cruisers and shermans and those unbelivably crapistatic lee tanks. most allied tanks were both weak AND expensive too. either air supiriority was weak. typhoons were slowpokes and frogs. slow and not manuevarble. and also were weak VS fighters. P51 had alot of downsides including that its unable to climb. can be destroyed by a zero or a raiden or a tony. also stalls alot.

fun fact: all allied tanks made in world war 2 can be smashed off by those guns on the tigers.

tiger can cross fords. also it was able to punch and beat a churchill pretty good. all allied tanks are s**t. russia made the best  but germany had the best tanks both in WW2 and in the world.  1 tiger would rush and destroy all an advancing allied armor division.  all allied tanks including pershing. were firey. and s**tty. they were called "tommy cookers" because they were caughting fire alot of times. panther can take out both T-34 and pershings with no difficulty at all. tigers. arguably the most famous tank of all time. was a beast. it wrecks havoc to enemy troops. causing them to flee in terror even when armed with the best anti-tank guns.  tigers inspired lots of fear and dread to all odds. panther can cross hard terrien.  with a great speed and a fierece gun. also a furious armor and a long range. tiger kings. the strongest tank of the war. can take any any any tank with its gun from a 3000 shot with ease. very accurate. can shoot a losifstalin with no trouble and all allid tanks were crap except russia's. even russia fielded alot of weak tanks in the whole outbreak of the war for a long while. like that T-26. i like russia's giant tank hunters. although they are poor and slow with large disadvantage of construction it was poor against tanks.

jagdpanther can destroy whilst not bieng destroyed.  its armor is thick it was heavily armed and armoured and go ahead flank it with 10 fast tanks. you'll be dead in the open before you would've crossed 30% of its range.

wyvern

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Re: open historical conversation
« Reply #52 on: 12 January 2011, 18:04:21 »
The 88 was a legend because unlike the allies who had great purpose built AT guns, it was used in the AT role, the British 3.7 inch and the american 90mm anti aircraft guns were just as good if not better and their armor penetration was fantastic, It was not particularly accurate, statistics show that heavy AA guns hit once in every 2000+ shots, obviously it could take down a b17 but the 3.7inch and the 90mm could do the same to its german equivalent, the greif, obviously, it would have to hit which none of them would without wasting a tanks worth of ammo the bofors was a wonderful gun, it had great rate of fire, good AT characteristics and comparing its AT characteristics to the 88 is grossly wrong since the 88 has a far larger calibre 88mm vs 40mm, and its shell weighs way more, shturmoviks were becoming outdated by the end of the war, but they could easily survive light machine guns mounted on german halftracks and tanks for AA fire, the shturmovik was not a fighter either and in air combat, it at least had a better chance of surviving then a stuka, allied bombers were very strong in reality, the japanese feared them because their own planes were too lightly armored to withstand the multiple mg's in the turrets, a blenheim shot down two japanese aces while surviving the whole fight, wellingtons were out of service as bombers by 1942, unlike the equally outdated german dorniers, lancasters were probably the best bombers of the whole war other then the b-29, it had multiple turrets could carry 4 tons of bombs and get home on 2-3 engines none of the pilots were really exposed to enemy fire either, modified versions of the lancaster such as those used by 617 squadron blew up dams with skipping bombs, sank the tirpitz with 12,000 pound bombs and carried 13 ton grand slam bombs that could wipe out anything they hit.
Another fact:the kill to loss  ratio of the luftwaffe versus un escorted US bombers was about 1-1, this got far worse for the luftwaffe when fighters like the p-38, p-47, and the far superior p-51 began providing escort.

the panzerwerfers and wurferahmen weren't made in good numbers and their rockets were still worse then those on the calliope or katyusha, katyushas were made en masse and their occasional armor was adequate for shell bursts, the panzerwerfer and wurferahmen were just barely good enough to stop shell fragments and bullets, nothing more, the allied troops never feared the german rockets as much as the germans feared the huge aerial bombardments of the russians and allies.

Tigers could be destroyed by a lone rocket with ease, as could King Tigers, the chaffees took them out because they had light motor traversing turrets while the tigers turret was slow and powered by hand crank, explosive is never so good versus a tank unless you get a direct hit, the german tanks  had many weaknesses and a King Tiger could be disabled head on with a 17lb shell, I listed the things that could take out a KingTiger and in other words any other german tank.
Tank and ground cannons-17lb, 100mm, 90mm, 85mm, 152mm with pure shell shock, 122mm, 6lb, 76mm, 57mm, petard projector, 95mm, 25lb. All regularly mounted on allied tanks and field carriages
Infantry weapons-piat, bazooka, AT mine, flamethrower, plastic explosives, molotov, satchel charge, gammon bomb, explosives
Others-tank mounted flame throwers, aerial rockets, aerial bombs, 37mm, 40mm, and 75mm aircraft mounted cannons.
Not quite invulnerable anymore, right :P :P ::)

no submarine can survive a torpedo hit, and slogging it out with a 1/4 of its weight PT boat is stupid considering the PT could run away, and against a destroyer with many times the number of its guns only radar guided and with better armor, be serious, submarines could be disabled with a 20-40mm AA cannon.

japanese radar was vastly inferior and mounted on heavier ships, not on every ship as the allies did, torpedoes on battleships were almost never used and for its huge weight the yamato had very bad equipment, if it was so great then explain to me why it failed to shoot down many US planes when attacked or sink many ships when attacking, Its AA armament was the very inaccurrate and poorly guided heavy AA guns and the more accurate and shorter ranged 25mm which had trouble hitting far off targets, compared to this, the 40mm quad bofors on allied ships was the most efficient AA system of the was in all aspects, The Yamato blew up and killed most of its crew within a couple of hours, no US battleship was ever sunk post Pearl Harbor which was a nasty sneak attack. it was not particularly fast or maneuverable, its catapult planes were crappy and only for scouting, and it had no proper anti sub defense and neither did the whole japanese navy throughout the war. I would like to say that you only look at statistics such as armor or amount of guns, but you never look at the technology or reliability or actual combat worthiness of many of the weapons ships and tanks.

For some reason, a couple of hundred hopeless british paras in arnhem held out for many days with a single AT gun disabling tanks and infantry vehicles as well as slaughtering the german SS troops, the british paras were as brave if not braver then the fallschirmjager, the british paras had plenty of automatic weapons like the bren and sten gun and anti tank weapons in the form of piats, gammon bombs and explosives, all british infantry was better trained then the german wermacht and they were very capable.

The volkkstrumm were crazy old men and boys who were under armed and attacked tanks with AT mines and panzerfausts, getting gunned down in the process.

About the t34, the basic model had a chance against the tiger only on the flanks true but it was about 4 years older and 26 tons lighter not to mention far faster and better for combat in the winter, its successor the t34/85 could take out both tigers and king tigers, while still being faster and some 24 tons lighter,
realize that when the t34 fought the germans the only tank that could take it out was the panzer IV at point blank range, meaning the t34 could disable it with ease, the only weapon that could really take it out at decent range was the 88 and pak 38L60 50mm AT cannon.

Realize that of the tanks you mentioned, the Lee, matilda and cruiser were all out of service by 1943 and were all older or improvised designs, the crusader was just as good as panzer III's and when introduced, the matilda was an early war tiger that could take out any known tank while being near immune to everything but 88 and point blank panzer IV fire, it was possibly the best tank of the first two years of the war. Cromwells and Shermans were bad true, but had okay armor and were soon after entering service replaced(in the case of the cromwell)by the comet, or well upgraded like the sherman firefly and sherman 76, though they remained in service till wars end and none of them were overly expensive, the allies had complete air superiority and their typhoons could take on any german fighter, being quite fast, well armed, maneuverable and well armored, the p-51 was better then all german fighters and versus the japanese........well, lets not get into that as that would be a massacre commited by the p-51's.

About your fact, if your speaking of the king tiger your right, but many allied tanks could survive the basic german tiger.

A churchill VII can survive a tiger head on, possibly from the flank, and many allied tanks were good, early war, the matilda and t34 was good, the firefly, sherman 76, t34/85, IS-2, Pershing, Churchill and comet were all wonderful tanks.

About the panther, it had bad side armor, a great gun, relatively reliable but very heavy for a medium tank, heavier then the far superior IS-2 in fact.

the t26 was an average tank and the russian tank destroyers were great, on the other hand they were not as unreliable or bad as you claim.

The jagdpather once again relies on good front armor and a good gun but from the flank its extremely vulnerable, I have a flames of war model of it though, it looks really cool and I like it.

personally, although its a weak and bad tank, I think the tetrarch was pure awesome

the warlord of the reich

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Re: open historical conversation
« Reply #53 on: 12 January 2011, 21:07:53 »
those tommy cookers were also bad protectors. their crews get killed easily with small hits. and you ever seen the explosion made by the tiger? you'd better check it out because it would ripe of a tank with its explosion. tigers are able to move forward and hit a running light tank. you have to try and run abroadsides while hoping and praying that the tiger wont move forward and fix its positon and send you straight on fire. talk about overkill

yamato alone. would sink 10 evarts or 8 fletchers or 6 colorados. with its largeley top notch guns. and it looks like that its bridge is built from AA guns. you wont have a great time flying through a sheer shower of flak and the sky by you is getting coloured black by the AA on the ship. its a masterpiece. call petes crappy? petes were fast and top agile scouts able to outfly a hellcat without getting shot. its chances are high to try and manouver the serious danger of a hellcat and once that hellcat is fixed. that pete would grab its tail and shoot it up and shape it to a new look. also those guns on hellcats were very weak. while zeros can shoot its thick armor easily and outfly it with ahigh firepower. zeros can turn around without trouble it nearly does'nt moves when it turns around even when accalearating.

panther had a medium side armor. it had a treadoff. some armor for a far superior gun and a definetly faster speed and an ability to cross rocky and hard terrien.

comets finally had some firepower to get some chances fighting off outdated tanks. it was still crappy. nearly all allied tanks were crappy and armed with feeble guns.

that PT boat would be sinking before it starts to turn around. those guns on the I-400 would kick its @ss easily

tigers were beasts. ambushing them was'nt so easy.... ambushing them is one thing to kill it but theres litterly nothing else INCLUDING a flank attack. the crappy chaffee was easily burnt in sadness and also that machine gun on the tiger is able to hole its hull and kill its crews.

alot of battleships were sank in pearl harbor. pearl harbor attack was one of the best and smart intelligant and exellent timed & well planned attack in history where the japanese planned the attack and excuted it with a very large success. the lazy and stupidity of the US troops their made the attack successful. they taken out the radar defenses silently and swiftly like ninjas and thein sent the samuria to kick the US navy's ass in a large scaled dive bomber atttack heavily damaged a crap load of battleships also the heavy and huge arizona battleship was sank.

volkstrumm was a bunch of hardened militia that were the last remaining troops fighting and holding off allied advance in the end of their war. once near berlin. the soviets started suffering heavy casualties due to a very defensive entrenchments all across a siegfried line. tanks were getting killed in large numbers through the battle.

bren and sten are outdated inaccurate guns. british army was vastly untrained considred to the german SS and grenadiers and even volkstrumm were strong enough to beat brit paras.

calliope is weak. and katyusha is weaker. and once again know more. wurferahmen is a sfkdz with a rocket launcher on it. it was heavily armored more then the weak katyusha that is unable to move over hard terrien without falling in pieces.

I 400. is actaully able to take hits from an artilley piece of a fletcher. and it was able to whistand hits of aerial torpedos easily. japanese subs were beasts to the few USA subs.

japanese pilots feared nothing

there was lots of planes designed to easily counter all flying fortresses. also a KI-43 would beat up a B-17 easily.... the luftwaffe easily mass killed flying fortresses. there was a speciel division made to actually and litterly. cut a boeings body in a half by flying close to it and use the razor strong sharp wing to cut the boeings thin armor in a half and leave it dead.

P-51 was unable to climb. once someone gets your tail. your dead. you'll have to call in assistance to clear you.

if the IJN had good avaitors. it would easily smack and beat and fight off the US navy. if the P 51 came to the pacific. it would be beaten up bad. there was a long series of very elite and strong and even more agile fighters.

with the (Bf)109 or the (Fw)190 you could easily kill a large number of P-51

thunderbolt was largley slow and heavy. dont forget it cost a fortune and lots of money to produce one. also it had a very short range
« Last Edit: 13 January 2011, 02:25:41 by the warlord of the reich »

Mapmaster

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Re: open historical conversation
« Reply #54 on: 13 January 2011, 01:14:28 »
ok i just wanted to share a story with everyone about my uncle in Vietnam.

He was in the army and useing a mine detectore looking to clear the road for the trucks when suddenly they were amboushed he wenct to take cover when he was shot in the neck. It went in one side and out the other. Surprisingly it dident hit anything inportent and he lived. He than was in shock so he dident know he was shot. He just knew he fell on his combat knife that was in his hand. He felt it stab his leg. Then when the medic rescude him he kept yelling at the medics MY LEG MY LEG!!! and they told him that his leg wasent the problem that it was his neck. He lived to tell the story to me and im telling the story to you guys.  :) :)  

the warlord of the reich

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Re: open historical conversation
« Reply #55 on: 26 January 2011, 08:34:06 »
by the way. germany had wy more superior AT guns (pak 40, 88MM flakpanzer) while british. inheriting relics from world war 1, have'nt got the skills nor the talent to match teir superior enemy germany. with mostly world war 1 artillery. old tanks. an embarassing lack of recon. their whole army armed with outdated world war 1 guns. weak aircraft while bieng compared to german ones. no techenology. not advance. nothing impressive. nothing would go higher the germany. even in tactics and mind thinking. germans had better brains to invent the rapid offensive tactic of "blitzkrieg(lightning war)" yeah thats the truth. either the french. trying to fire on germany with mostly the same situation of the british. using world war 1 relics. germans even in world war 1 were way more advanced then their enemies. the germans also invented world's first assault rifle. best guns. much better then allied ones. better infantry. by the way. SAS does'nt deserve to be best infantry in world war 2..... they dident conduct very speciel operations. nor they dident do like the fallschirmjager did. not better armed. not braver. fallschirmjagers had the gutts to land on enemy islands where theres nothing called escape. killed much more. bieng also frontline soldiers helped. both frontline and speciell operation troops. the SAS and rangers served in secret stuff like recon and spying like snakes. instead going on the enemy's own and fighting face to face. battle of crete where the fallschirmjager proved themselfs worthy. and they did it man times more.... bieng also nationalists and brave belives. they had pride and self honor. not like those SAS and rangers who got in only for bieng school drop outs or bieng too poor to get anything from reall jobs. here you go.

the germans had the best anti-air capacity. with an epic wirbelwind and ostwinds and 88MM and 20MM that could be used to destroy a massive number of aircraft. by means. b-24 and b-17 definetlly dident stood a slim chance of avoiding AA fire. ostwinds. were awesomly great AA that none allied soldier would dream to possess one. getting sad over it. no more stisfied with bofors :( wirbelwind. was a legend. a masterpiece. a creation of awesomness!!!!! if you like explosions. like reall big and rapid ones. go for a wirbelwid. wirbelwind. is a shell machinegun. by means it fires bombs. meaning a machine gun fires rappidly shells and explosive bombs instead of bullets. in 5 seconds. it would fie what 30 bofor guns would fire in a minute. also with high explosive. nothing would pass it. including very fast planes. so how it would go on bombers?  so you think the german army is'nt miracleous. well. then how THE HELL did a single wirbelwind slay 460 allied infantrymen on the beaches of normandy.... and im sure it scored the same number in killing aircraft. people think D day is a victory. oh well. like i said below. it was an another victory turning joke. the outnumbered germans killed thousands and hundreds of both pilots and infantry and tanks. their powerfull long ranged 150MM artillery busted alot of landing craft and ships. their siegfried line held like the tiger infront a horde of flies, cockroaches and ants.

stukas. with a designing of a lifetime. it can easily break through fortfications. was the best and definetllly said to be the most advanced bomber of the world. gulled wings giving it agility to turn fight with enemy fighters (just like the val) and armor to whistand some punishment. a deadly rear machinegun. a mass destructive payload. most people got chickened out from it they had to make it look bad. it was a masterpiece. was knowen to be tremendous at breaking forts with a powerfull ultra accurate deadly attack VS fortfications. go ahead. build yourself concentrations of thick iron and cement. even the thickest fortfications. would epic fail. no really. there was alot of examples for this gift of ultimate strength VS any kind of defenses. dont talk to me about battle of london. it was used inapropriatly as a tactical bomber. most spitfirres avoided the jaws and nails of the back gunners. if they get unlucky and get in its range. they're totally. dead. with their weakling armor. definetly will not stand up to the punishment. either 4 guns freezing evreytime you get higher then the stop sign would'nt go great for you at shooting enemy bombers.

the germans had a panther. panther was something.... ummm ... between a tank killer and a main battle tank and a moving fortfication. it was a super tank. a very huge techenological leap forward; superior inclined armor. the gun mounted on the panzer four (a better and longer ranged version of it) high mobility. an ability to cross hardest of terriens. the panther was way ahead of its own panzer family (and even more ahead of its counterpart foriegns) panthers give the germans opurtunity to have the best medium tank in the world (and sevrel engineers and historicans praised it and described it to be world's first modern tank. the bloody T-34 were something awesom. but dude!!! no one with a mind could say its able to fight off tigers. also tiger king had 28KMPH (faster the tiger 1) and with a massive gun. and strength to drive and cut through a skyscrapper. ability to take down modern and powerfll new engineered walls and fortifications. tiger kings were beasts of the war if used in blitzkrieg would've gone from a killing machine into a moving lightning killing machine. if you want to say that tigers suck. go loo at US and british heavy tanks first, churchills with a feeble gun would definatly not pentrate a tiger's armor. matilda. world's record in slowest tank. with short range. pershing. with a medium armor and medium range. they definetlly cant match tigers. armament is more importent then speed. otherwise if your thinnking speed's importent so we can run away like chickens once were failing. lol dont forget that after world war 2 panther tanks rappidly earnt an award for the best tank designn through world war 2. and also we both realize t-34 are great tanks. but since you realize it too. you surelley know that panzer IV followed close behinde for bieng a masterpiece too.

realize all infantry weapons you mentioned can destroy evrey single allied tank. and also. if those tanks got out of service then what did the allies play with? cars? they had only this through the war. crap and junk. the tiger's extreme range allows it to positon in one place and fire while having a nap. its open range killer meaning speed does'nt worth anything and also mostly all allied tanks are short ranged. a chaffee could be killed with a single front shot. panzerfausten would kill tanks and late advanced heavy tanks better then evrey allied AT weapon that is present. and also from where could the infantry get close to the tiger? borrowing runescape teleporting spells? no. the germans got themselfs best recon for good reasons. teach the infantry a lesson to not cross their line. and the crappy allied tanks allways have gabs. matilda. with an unbelivablly..... very unbelivably.... slow as a turtle. the term of speed and mobility seem to never get a good positon in tank war. but this one.... is extremley ultra slow. matildas are short ranged so they're supposed to combine their armor with speed to run through and try to put no more then one shell to a tiger and get killed. but this matilda is not an offensive tank. not at all. never. because its slow. while tigers had the mobility of a regular heavy tank. sorry but back then they dident have ferrari turbo engines could go 200MPH they had big engines mostly air cooled and if in luck liquid cooled and they dident have something called "accelerator" in tanks back then. so by the way. the armor of the germans is way ahead of its foriegn counterparts.

mosquito was never a versatille aircraft. it is only for quick opeartions and small time jobs. while ju 88 was for air superiority. heavy fighter. speciell operations. recon. medium bomber, light bomber, anti-ship. anti enemy bomber. ground attack. interceptor. also fast and heavily armed and armored. mosquito would go down in litle pieces even when under attack by a world war 1 fighter due to its embarassing lack of armor and speed. very easy shot. 

the stuka bomber was a masterpiec through the entire war. stukas were well armored and agile (due to its gulled wings and shape) also carrying a pretty strong payload. was the most advanced bomber of the world at the time.
some foolish people may refer its weakness in battle of britian. well its not weak in it. stukas were used inapropriatlly in battle of london as a tactical bomber instead of a dive bomber. sorry to break this up to all the british.... but no offense. brits are sad losers sorry but thats the truth. they had to kill the bismarck once it was alone by sending entirley the whole fleet at it. and in dunkirk evacuation. they called it a victory against defeat. lol more like rats running away from jaws of the cat. after stealing what it owns. they started the whole world war 2 by bombing france and then kissing canada's and USA's arses for help. they had a weak army equipped with nothing more then relics from world war 1.  they kissed canada's ass reall good for few anti air guns and they begged america for guns (which was the thing the british army equipped with through the war) their tanks were mostly armed with crap guns like cruisers and churchills. they think they won the battle of britian. well they've not. they failed intercept all the bombers. the tower of london got hit. the entire city bombed off. V1 rockets hitting evreywhere. they made the sewers their homes while smiling through it. prince of wales and repulse. britian propaganding its population saying they're the best in the world. ended in epic fail. they failed at killing the yamato while it was alone RIGHT infront of them. in the old ages. they could'nt get more greedy then attacking scotish highlands that they got no orgnizationn. the scots won. mostly outnumbered. at world war 1. they were elimnated both in air and land. the germans in vrey battle outnumbered. won victories by killing more british like in the somme. the british are too afraid so they brough france and their entire colonies. attempting to win against a slightly outnumbered german force. the germans got bored out o killing so many brits and frenchies they walked back to have a rest. in the napoleonic war they brough nearly all europe to their aid attemting to destroy napoleon. well. heres the truth: napoleon brough britian to its knees. winning mostl outnumbered victiories. the brits are always pompious and proud. that they always try to prove themselfs so by attacking the weaker masses. like the newly established USA where farmers made an advanced and overpowering "great and royal" force to surrender in fear. lol. sorry but you cann look at it yourselfs.

they have the "blitz bomber" a jet bomber faster the anything flying at the time. can cover the ground with a massive long range accurate ground covering earthquaking payload could cover london from its begin to its outskirts with a single payload. those bombers were near impossible to intercept. the AA guns should get their guns aimed before they look up the sky where was the bomber but now has no sight. the bliz bomber. was something the allies would kill themselfs for it. they only had B-24 to be proud with it while the blitz bomber beared its nickname and desrved it proudly. carrying radar and powerfull guns. it could kill anything passes by its front in a single shot. either tail guns aare unusually massive for the blitz bomber.

It is commonly known as Blitz ("lightning"), though this name refers only to the B-2 bomber variant, and it is not clear whether it was ever formally applied instead of being derived from the informal term Blitz-Bomber (roughly, "very fast bomber"). The alternate name Hecht ("pike") is derived from one of the units equipped with this plane, Sonderkommando Hecht. The Ar 234 (and the Messerschmitt Me 262) showed in which direction plane technique should develop

the germans got the techenology on their side. while allies were strugglng to use ther numbers instead of their poor techenology of air and land. on land. weak tanks with low armament and mostly outdated stuff.... in the air. some flying tourist planes switched to fighters were awfully beaten by the more powerfull luftwaffe's fighhters and their bombers were'nt good either. lancaster was a plane with an armor barley whistands bullets and gets ripped off litterly after taking few hits. wellingtons were worse. much weaker guns. very weak armor. very slow.
B-17 bombers were unbelivably velunarble to flak and AA. it had a very slow speed that over france the AA scored more kills then ever. the ME-109 dived on B-17 bombers. easy as pie tactic to over kill the bombers. enemy fighter escort could be easily overrun if they want to. with fighter superioriority. they could light and shoot down evrey fighter escort with a couple 190 BF FW fighters. the germans also invented "the wing" a huge large jump towards tomorrow's militry techenology. the "wing" was a jet flight stealthy enough to hide away from enemy's own fighters. fast enough to run away from them. rareley detected by radar. was a weapon could reckon an entire enemy orgnization or base or movement with pictures and high details. the germans mastered techenology inventing weapons of tomorrow in their days.

the raiden. was an all round superior to hellcats. corsairs. and easily kills enemy wildcats. either TBF and SBD bombers' heavy armors proved lacking to whiastand raiden's heavy armament. raidens were very fast fighter reaching 417 mph speed. hail raidens. mighty destroyer of the P-47 and P-40 and P-38 and wildcats and hellcats dont forget that the corsair was easy kill for most japanese fighters. due to its weak light armament and it was described as a ground support

the nakijama KI-44 "shoki" was an awesome fighter. It was less maneuverable than its predecessor, the nimble Ki-43, the Ki-44 was superior in flight tests.It was an outstanding interceptor and could match Allied types in climbs and dives, giving pilots far more flexibility in combat. Moreover, the armament (including in some versions two 40 mm cannons) was far superior to the older Ki-43. These characteristics made the fighter an effective B-29 Superfortress destroyer and one of the Japanese High Command priorities during the last year of war. But poor pilot training in the last part of the conflict often made them easy targets for Allied pilots

well. you say p-47 are good. they're not.... it was descried that p-51 WAS THE FIRST FIGHTER TO FIGHT MOST OF LUFTWAFFE'S FIGHTERS ON "EQUEL TERMS"!!!!! p-51s were used in pacific. resulted in mostly epic fails. an upgraded version of betty bombers could survive its guns. a shoki and oscar and nate fighters were easilly killing them. really dude. those fighters were ripping them off due to p-51's relativety to the poor lacking p-40 an p-38 fighters. p-51 pilots suffered from epic fails trying to intercept kamikaze betty bombers. heres a scene were one of those fails occured https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5_61SetiD8

the 190 BF focke wulf was a legend of the skies. extreme guns and high speed evrey allied pilot feared it. it was called "the butcher bird" it can carry bomb load acting both as a bomber and as a fighter trasher and a bomber lighter. either ground targets were velunarble to that. proving awesom with alot of guns and heavy cannons. spitfire's very light armor (near the armor of a zero) was holed like crazy under a 190 BFFW.

germans were totally superior in terms of airpower. we all know it. ME 109 could overpower a spitfire and could easily make a quick work out of a hurricane and this fighter served to the end of the war without bieng declared obselent. not to mention its ability to shoot B 17 like turkeys in a dive. also the ME 109 could easily out fight any british flying junk in high altitudes. spitfire's guns freeze once it goes higher then the tower of london. dont forget it is ony armed with 4 light machine guns while ME 109 was greatly praised with high agility, high speed, good guns including cannons. can intercept bombers easily with dive attacks or even going on tail of a bomber :|

dude you said zeros are unupgradeble. then how would you explain to me the later improved version that could defeat hellcats. and the later model with self sealing fuel tanks? for your information. zeros could go 355mph and with 6 or 4 7.7 MM guns its fire power would pentrate any allied armor easily wrecking it with holes. meanwhile. it would swing around avoiding fire and AA

kate bombers were legends. good payload although were knowen to be vastly superior to the US entire torpedo bomber force. devestators were very obselete and achived their reputation in the battle of midway where they all got shot down. achived great success at pearl harbor. santa cruz. coral sea. midway. they were proving exellent and remarkable when flown by good pilots instead of fresh recruits also proved awesom when conducting coordinated attacks. has signlar and radio operator instead of the weakling vindicator and the even weaker devestator. kates were the controlling superiors for the weakling allied fairey albcores and fairy swordfishes and other torpdo bombers. avengars were only 1 steb away from kates. due to the avengars better armor.

well. to say. IJN was vastly superior to US aircraft. they lacked avaitors. it was said that in 1942 zeros were beaten. no thats a mistake often made. in that time the US pilots got lucky and goed to some japanese airbases for some night robbery and theifing and stole a A6M zero fighter and took it to their research. they tested zeros knew that the only thing that would give US pilots a slim chance of survival would be to use dive tactics. carefull that zero must stay in one place all the time your doing this tactic so it rarley worked. also get watching your throttle you dont want to end up stalling (which is not a surprise at all for wildcats and warhawks) the US fighters went to an epic fail once the advanced heavily armed and armored and top speed raiden showed up. the IJN ordered the design of more good aircraft. they got lucky as always and invented super awesom fighters that if the IJN had good pilots were gonna completley turn the tide of war. the IJN brough powerfull "tony" and "shoki" fighters to outfight its foes. zeros earnt a 90-0 kill ratio over china and they made remarkable successes at pearl harbor. the Aichi D3A Val  were masterpiece dive bombers. they were very fast (faster then the already exellent A6M zero and also that were vastly superior to the dauntless even if it was old design and was even more superior to the late designed sick crappy helldivers. the val bombers were famous and popular. knowen like any japanese plane for top agility. in the indian ocean raid, the japanese earned their glory where val bombers and kate bombers with the escort of only 35 zeros. the val bombers were pressed to fight enemies on their own acting like fighters instead of bombers. the agility of vals made it able to outurn and out fight P40 and P38 and wildcats. the vals sank the entire allied fleet in an epic fail for the allied convoy

those were the losses of the british fleet. on the other hand the japanese raid lost 20 aircrat. lol fail
1 carrier
2 cruisers
2 destroyers
1 Armed Merchant Cruiser (AMC)
1 corvette
1 sloop
23 merchant ships sunk
40+ aircraft destroyed


ok i just wanted to share a story with everyone about my uncle in Vietnam.

He was in the army and useing a mine detectore looking to clear the road for the trucks when suddenly they were amboushed he wenct to take cover when he was shot in the neck. It went in one side and out the other. Surprisingly it dident hit anything inportent and he lived. He than was in shock so he dident know he was shot. He just knew he fell on his combat knife that was in his hand. He felt it stab his leg. Then when the medic rescude him he kept yelling at the medics MY LEG MY LEG!!! and they told him that his leg wasent the problem that it was his neck. He lived to tell the story to me and im telling the story to you guys.  :) :)  

no offense. but this is an epic shellshock fail.... i had it once. i was carrying soe sort of a log. spikes and shreds in it. i swang it around then i dropped it. i was walking around normally untill my aunt abeer saw my right hand stuffed with shreds and needles. i dident knew theres any in it and i dident even fell any pain. my aunt said "oh my god your hand" (in arabic) "يا اللة سلطان يدك" i looked and said "what" (in arabic) "ايش؟" i check my hand and OMG i realized after 20 minutes that theres spikes and shreds in my hand. lol shellshock
« Last Edit: 26 January 2011, 10:16:05 by the warlord of the reich »

the warlord of the reich

  • Guest
Re: open historical conversation
« Reply #56 on: 26 January 2011, 10:17:12 »
am gonna say sorry for the long post up. i had to post this in an other post to minimize the limits. lol epic post.   

any of you guys know where is a place for post records? cuz i think i got one ::)

lol.... i have alota free time. this post took about 5 hours to write.
« Last Edit: 26 January 2011, 10:23:02 by the warlord of the reich »

Mr War

  • Guest
Re: open historical conversation
« Reply #57 on: 26 January 2011, 22:25:43 »
have you studied war or lived through one first hand?

Never knew stuka's where particularly advanced, they faired badly against Britain. Their reputation was built in actions where they faced minimal enemy fighter activity I thought. As soon as Germany faced an enemy with similar investments in air defense to their own, the Stuka became a minor factor?

wyvern

  • Guest
Re: open historical conversation
« Reply #58 on: 27 January 2011, 00:21:44 »
by the way. germany had wy more superior AT guns (pak 40, 88MM flakpanzer) while british. inheriting relics from world war 1, have'nt got the skills nor the talent to match teir superior enemy germany. with mostly world war 1 artillery. old tanks. an embarassing lack of recon. their whole army armed with outdated world war 1 guns. weak aircraft while bieng compared to german ones. no techenology. not advance. nothing impressive. nothing would go higher the germany. even in tactics and mind thinking. germans had better brains to invent the rapid offensive tactic of "blitzkrieg(lightning war)" yeah thats the truth. either the french. trying to fire on germany with mostly the same situation of the british. using world war 1 relics. germans even in world war 1 were way more advanced then their enemies. the germans also invented world's first assault rifle. best guns. much better then allied ones. better infantry. by the way. SAS does'nt deserve to be best infantry in world war 2..... they dident conduct very speciel operations. nor they dident do like the fallschirmjager did. not better armed. not braver. fallschirmjagers had the gutts to land on enemy islands where theres nothing called escape. killed much more. bieng also frontline soldiers helped. both frontline and speciell operation troops. the SAS and rangers served in secret stuff like recon and spying like snakes. instead going on the enemy's own and fighting face to face. battle of crete where the fallschirmjager proved themselfs worthy. and they did it man times more.... bieng also nationalists and brave belives. they had pride and self honor. not like those SAS and rangers who got in only for bieng school drop outs or bieng too poor to get anything from reall jobs. here you go.

the germans had the best anti-air capacity. with an epic wirbelwind and ostwinds and 88MM and 20MM that could be used to destroy a massive number of aircraft. by means. b-24 and b-17 definetlly dident stood a slim chance of avoiding AA fire. ostwinds. were awesomly great AA that none allied soldier would dream to possess one. getting sad over it. no more stisfied with bofors :( wirbelwind. was a legend. a masterpiece. a creation of awesomness!!!!! if you like explosions. like reall big and rapid ones. go for a wirbelwid. wirbelwind. is a shell machinegun. by means it fires bombs. meaning a machine gun fires rappidly shells and explosive bombs instead of bullets. in 5 seconds. it would fie what 30 bofor guns would fire in a minute. also with high explosive. nothing would pass it. including very fast planes. so how it would go on bombers?  so you think the german army is'nt miracleous. well. then how THE HELL did a single wirbelwind slay 460 allied infantrymen on the beaches of normandy.... and im sure it scored the same number in killing aircraft. people think D day is a victory. oh well. like i said below. it was an another victory turning joke. the outnumbered germans killed thousands and hundreds of both pilots and infantry and tanks. their powerfull long ranged 150MM artillery busted alot of landing craft and ships. their siegfried line held like the tiger infront a horde of flies, cockroaches and ants.

stukas. with a designing of a lifetime. it can easily break through fortfications. was the best and definetllly said to be the most advanced bomber of the world. gulled wings giving it agility to turn fight with enemy fighters (just like the val) and armor to whistand some punishment. a deadly rear machinegun. a mass destructive payload. most people got chickened out from it they had to make it look bad. it was a masterpiece. was knowen to be tremendous at breaking forts with a powerfull ultra accurate deadly attack VS fortfications. go ahead. build yourself concentrations of thick iron and cement. even the thickest fortfications. would epic fail. no really. there was alot of examples for this gift of ultimate strength VS any kind of defenses. dont talk to me about battle of london. it was used inapropriatly as a tactical bomber. most spitfirres avoided the jaws and nails of the back gunners. if they get unlucky and get in its range. they're totally. dead. with their weakling armor. definetly will not stand up to the punishment. either 4 guns freezing evreytime you get higher then the stop sign would'nt go great for you at shooting enemy bombers.

the germans had a panther. panther was something.... ummm ... between a tank killer and a main battle tank and a moving fortfication. it was a super tank. a very huge techenological leap forward; superior inclined armor. the gun mounted on the panzer four (a better and longer ranged version of it) high mobility. an ability to cross hardest of terriens. the panther was way ahead of its own panzer family (and even more ahead of its counterpart foriegns) panthers give the germans opurtunity to have the best medium tank in the world (and sevrel engineers and historicans praised it and described it to be world's first modern tank. the bloody T-34 were something awesom. but dude!!! no one with a mind could say its able to fight off tigers. also tiger king had 28KMPH (faster the tiger 1) and with a massive gun. and strength to drive and cut through a skyscrapper. ability to take down modern and powerfll new engineered walls and fortifications. tiger kings were beasts of the war if used in blitzkrieg would've gone from a killing machine into a moving lightning killing machine. if you want to say that tigers suck. go loo at US and british heavy tanks first, churchills with a feeble gun would definatly not pentrate a tiger's armor. matilda. world's record in slowest tank. with short range. pershing. with a medium armor and medium range. they definetlly cant match tigers. armament is more importent then speed. otherwise if your thinnking speed's importent so we can run away like chickens once were failing. lol dont forget that after world war 2 panther tanks rappidly earnt an award for the best tank designn through world war 2. and also we both realize t-34 are great tanks. but since you realize it too. you surelley know that panzer IV followed close behinde for bieng a masterpiece too.

realize all infantry weapons you mentioned can destroy evrey single allied tank. and also. if those tanks got out of service then what did the allies play with? cars? they had only this through the war. crap and junk. the tiger's extreme range allows it to positon in one place and fire while having a nap. its open range killer meaning speed does'nt worth anything and also mostly all allied tanks are short ranged. a chaffee could be killed with a single front shot. panzerfausten would kill tanks and late advanced heavy tanks better then evrey allied AT weapon that is present. and also from where could the infantry get close to the tiger? borrowing runescape teleporting spells? no. the germans got themselfs best recon for good reasons. teach the infantry a lesson to not cross their line. and the crappy allied tanks allways have gabs. matilda. with an unbelivablly..... very unbelivably.... slow as a turtle. the term of speed and mobility seem to never get a good positon in tank war. but this one.... is extremley ultra slow. matildas are short ranged so they're supposed to combine their armor with speed to run through and try to put no more then one shell to a tiger and get killed. but this matilda is not an offensive tank. not at all. never. because its slow. while tigers had the mobility of a regular heavy tank. sorry but back then they dident have ferrari turbo engines could go 200MPH they had big engines mostly air cooled and if in luck liquid cooled and they dident have something called "accelerator" in tanks back then. so by the way. the armor of the germans is way ahead of its foriegn counterparts.

mosquito was never a versatille aircraft. it is only for quick opeartions and small time jobs. while ju 88 was for air superiority. heavy fighter. speciell operations. recon. medium bomber, light bomber, anti-ship. anti enemy bomber. ground attack. interceptor. also fast and heavily armed and armored. mosquito would go down in litle pieces even when under attack by a world war 1 fighter due to its embarassing lack of armor and speed. very easy shot. 

the stuka bomber was a masterpiec through the entire war. stukas were well armored and agile (due to its gulled wings and shape) also carrying a pretty strong payload. was the most advanced bomber of the world at the time.
some foolish people may refer its weakness in battle of britian. well its not weak in it. stukas were used inapropriatlly in battle of london as a tactical bomber instead of a dive bomber. sorry to break this up to all the british.... but no offense. brits are sad losers sorry but thats the truth. they had to kill the bismarck once it was alone by sending entirley the whole fleet at it. and in dunkirk evacuation. they called it a victory against defeat. lol more like rats running away from jaws of the cat. after stealing what it owns. they started the whole world war 2 by bombing france and then kissing canada's and USA's arses for help. they had a weak army equipped with nothing more then relics from world war 1.  they kissed canada's ass reall good for few anti air guns and they begged america for guns (which was the thing the british army equipped with through the war) their tanks were mostly armed with crap guns like cruisers and churchills. they think they won the battle of britian. well they've not. they failed intercept all the bombers. the tower of london got hit. the entire city bombed off. V1 rockets hitting evreywhere. they made the sewers their homes while smiling through it. prince of wales and repulse. britian propaganding its population saying they're the best in the world. ended in epic fail. they failed at killing the yamato while it was alone RIGHT infront of them. in the old ages. they could'nt get more greedy then attacking scotish highlands that they got no orgnizationn. the scots won. mostly outnumbered. at world war 1. they were elimnated both in air and land. the germans in vrey battle outnumbered. won victories by killing more british like in the somme. the british are too afraid so they brough france and their entire colonies. attempting to win against a slightly outnumbered german force. the germans got bored out o killing so many brits and frenchies they walked back to have a rest. in the napoleonic war they brough nearly all europe to their aid attemting to destroy napoleon. well. heres the truth: napoleon brough britian to its knees. winning mostl outnumbered victiories. the brits are always pompious and proud. that they always try to prove themselfs so by attacking the weaker masses. like the newly established USA where farmers made an advanced and overpowering "great and royal" force to surrender in fear. lol. sorry but you cann look at it yourselfs.

they have the "blitz bomber" a jet bomber faster the anything flying at the time. can cover the ground with a massive long range accurate ground covering earthquaking payload could cover london from its begin to its outskirts with a single payload. those bombers were near impossible to intercept. the AA guns should get their guns aimed before they look up the sky where was the bomber but now has no sight. the bliz bomber. was something the allies would kill themselfs for it. they only had B-24 to be proud with it while the blitz bomber beared its nickname and desrved it proudly. carrying radar and powerfull guns. it could kill anything passes by its front in a single shot. either tail guns aare unusually massive for the blitz bomber.

It is commonly known as Blitz ("lightning"), though this name refers only to the B-2 bomber variant, and it is not clear whether it was ever formally applied instead of being derived from the informal term Blitz-Bomber (roughly, "very fast bomber"). The alternate name Hecht ("pike") is derived from one of the units equipped with this plane, Sonderkommando Hecht. The Ar 234 (and the Messerschmitt Me 262) showed in which direction plane technique should develop

the germans got the techenology on their side. while allies were strugglng to use ther numbers instead of their poor techenology of air and land. on land. weak tanks with low armament and mostly outdated stuff.... in the air. some flying tourist planes switched to fighters were awfully beaten by the more powerfull luftwaffe's fighhters and their bombers were'nt good either. lancaster was a plane with an armor barley whistands bullets and gets ripped off litterly after taking few hits. wellingtons were worse. much weaker guns. very weak armor. very slow.
B-17 bombers were unbelivably velunarble to flak and AA. it had a very slow speed that over france the AA scored more kills then ever. the ME-109 dived on B-17 bombers. easy as pie tactic to over kill the bombers. enemy fighter escort could be easily overrun if they want to. with fighter superioriority. they could light and shoot down evrey fighter escort with a couple 190 BF FW fighters. the germans also invented "the wing" a huge large jump towards tomorrow's militry techenology. the "wing" was a jet flight stealthy enough to hide away from enemy's own fighters. fast enough to run away from them. rareley detected by radar. was a weapon could reckon an entire enemy orgnization or base or movement with pictures and high details. the germans mastered techenology inventing weapons of tomorrow in their days.

the raiden. was an all round superior to hellcats. corsairs. and easily kills enemy wildcats. either TBF and SBD bombers' heavy armors proved lacking to whiastand raiden's heavy armament. raidens were very fast fighter reaching 417 mph speed. hail raidens. mighty destroyer of the P-47 and P-40 and P-38 and wildcats and hellcats dont forget that the corsair was easy kill for most japanese fighters. due to its weak light armament and it was described as a ground support

the nakijama KI-44 "shoki" was an awesome fighter. It was less maneuverable than its predecessor, the nimble Ki-43, the Ki-44 was superior in flight tests.It was an outstanding interceptor and could match Allied types in climbs and dives, giving pilots far more flexibility in combat. Moreover, the armament (including in some versions two 40 mm cannons) was far superior to the older Ki-43. These characteristics made the fighter an effective B-29 Superfortress destroyer and one of the Japanese High Command priorities during the last year of war. But poor pilot training in the last part of the conflict often made them easy targets for Allied pilots

well. you say p-47 are good. they're not.... it was descried that p-51 WAS THE FIRST FIGHTER TO FIGHT MOST OF LUFTWAFFE'S FIGHTERS ON "EQUEL TERMS"!!!!! p-51s were used in pacific. resulted in mostly epic fails. an upgraded version of betty bombers could survive its guns. a shoki and oscar and nate fighters were easilly killing them. really dude. those fighters were ripping them off due to p-51's relativety to the poor lacking p-40 an p-38 fighters. p-51 pilots suffered from epic fails trying to intercept kamikaze betty bombers. heres a scene were one of those fails occured https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5_61SetiD8

the 190 BF focke wulf was a legend of the skies. extreme guns and high speed evrey allied pilot feared it. it was called "the butcher bird" it can carry bomb load acting both as a bomber and as a fighter trasher and a bomber lighter. either ground targets were velunarble to that. proving awesom with alot of guns and heavy cannons. spitfire's very light armor (near the armor of a zero) was holed like crazy under a 190 BFFW.

germans were totally superior in terms of airpower. we all know it. ME 109 could overpower a spitfire and could easily make a quick work out of a hurricane and this fighter served to the end of the war without bieng declared obselent. not to mention its ability to shoot B 17 like turkeys in a dive. also the ME 109 could easily out fight any british flying junk in high altitudes. spitfire's guns freeze once it goes higher then the tower of london. dont forget it is ony armed with 4 light machine guns while ME 109 was greatly praised with high agility, high speed, good guns including cannons. can intercept bombers easily with dive attacks or even going on tail of a bomber :|

dude you said zeros are unupgradeble. then how would you explain to me the later improved version that could defeat hellcats. and the later model with self sealing fuel tanks? for your information. zeros could go 355mph and with 6 or 4 7.7 MM guns its fire power would pentrate any allied armor easily wrecking it with holes. meanwhile. it would swing around avoiding fire and AA

kate bombers were legends. good payload although were knowen to be vastly superior to the US entire torpedo bomber force. devestators were very obselete and achived their reputation in the battle of midway where they all got shot down. achived great success at pearl harbor. santa cruz. coral sea. midway. they were proving exellent and remarkable when flown by good pilots instead of fresh recruits also proved awesom when conducting coordinated attacks. has signlar and radio operator instead of the weakling vindicator and the even weaker devestator. kates were the controlling superiors for the weakling allied fairey albcores and fairy swordfishes and other torpdo bombers. avengars were only 1 steb away from kates. due to the avengars better armor.

well. to say. IJN was vastly superior to US aircraft. they lacked avaitors. it was said that in 1942 zeros were beaten. no thats a mistake often made. in that time the US pilots got lucky and goed to some japanese airbases for some night robbery and theifing and stole a A6M zero fighter and took it to their research. they tested zeros knew that the only thing that would give US pilots a slim chance of survival would be to use dive tactics. carefull that zero must stay in one place all the time your doing this tactic so it rarley worked. also get watching your throttle you dont want to end up stalling (which is not a surprise at all for wildcats and warhawks) the US fighters went to an epic fail once the advanced heavily armed and armored and top speed raiden showed up. the IJN ordered the design of more good aircraft. they got lucky as always and invented super awesom fighters that if the IJN had good pilots were gonna completley turn the tide of war. the IJN brough powerfull "tony" and "shoki" fighters to outfight its foes. zeros earnt a 90-0 kill ratio over china and they made remarkable successes at pearl harbor. the Aichi D3A Val  were masterpiece dive bombers. they were very fast (faster then the already exellent A6M zero and also that were vastly superior to the dauntless even if it was old design and was even more superior to the late designed sick crappy helldivers. the val bombers were famous and popular. knowen like any japanese plane for top agility. in the indian ocean raid, the japanese earned their glory where val bombers and kate bombers with the escort of only 35 zeros. the val bombers were pressed to fight enemies on their own acting like fighters instead of bombers. the agility of vals made it able to outurn and out fight P40 and P38 and wildcats. the vals sank the entire allied fleet in an epic fail for the allied convoy

those were the losses of the british fleet. on the other hand the japanese raid lost 20 aircrat. lol fail
1 carrier
2 cruisers
2 destroyers
1 Armed Merchant Cruiser (AMC)
1 corvette
1 sloop
23 merchant ships sunk
40+ aircraft destroyed


ok i just wanted to share a story with everyone about my uncle in Vietnam.

He was in the army and useing a mine detectore looking to clear the road for the trucks when suddenly they were amboushed he wenct to take cover when he was shot in the neck. It went in one side and out the other. Surprisingly it dident hit anything inportent and he lived. He than was in shock so he dident know he was shot. He just knew he fell on his combat knife that was in his hand. He felt it stab his leg. Then when the medic rescude him he kept yelling at the medics MY LEG MY LEG!!! and they told him that his leg wasent the problem that it was his neck. He lived to tell the story to me and im telling the story to you guys.  :) :)  

no offense. but this is an epic shellshock fail.... i had it once. i was carrying soe sort of a log. spikes and shreds in it. i swang it around then i dropped it. i was walking around normally untill my aunt abeer saw my right hand stuffed with shreds and needles. i dident knew theres any in it and i dident even fell any pain. my aunt said "oh my god your hand" (in arabic) "يا اللة سلطان يدك" i looked and said "what" (in arabic) "ايش؟" i check my hand and OMG i realized after 20 minutes that theres spikes and shreds in my hand. lol shellshock

@mapmaster-your uncle must be a tough and brave man to survive such an event, thats very admirable courage.
@Warlord-first off, sorry for not arguing with your previous post but I don't have nearly enough time for such long, drawn out explanations.
Now to argue, first off, the pak 40 was a good, but not super cannon, it was roughly comparable with the american 3 inch AT gun, also there was no such thing as an 88mm flakpanzer, the 88 was also a good but not amazing cannon, it was about equal with the british 3.7 inch and american 90mm and slightly worse then the 17lb cannon, in fact, with APCR ammo, the 17lb gun had about as much penetration as the panthers 75L70 cannon. The british troops were very well trained and the finest soldiers in the world like their forefathers of WW1, the british 25lb gun was one of the finest field guns of the time and the 2lb gun was the best purpose built AT cannon of the period with the ability to pierce 57mm of armor sloped 30 degrees at 500 yards range, far better then all german AT guns with the exception of the way heavier 88", the tanks of Britain were no worse the german tanks and amongst the finest of "german tanks" were czech(whoo :thumbup:) tanks like the panzer 38(t). their recon was great and probably better then their german counterparts, the Humber series of armored cars was amongst the best in the world and undoubtedly better then stuff like the sdkfz221 and 222. Before you talk that bulls*** about ww1 guns ask yourself, what war was the kar 98, a rifle far worse then the british NO. 4, from, WW1 yet all german infantry used it. The first times the luftwaffe encountered the RAF, over Dunkirk, they were massacred without any efficient results, the spitfire was probably the best fighter at the time. The BEF's main problem was being outnumbered, the french, who were mostly responsible for the defense fought poorly and allowed a complete collapse. The british were also the first mechanized army in the world, all others used horses to tow artillery or even used cavalry. Blitzkrieg was a good tactic but the british occasionally used the same tactics in the time to defeat far larger forces, for example when two british divisions defeated (30,000 troops) defeated 200, 000 italians in north africa. The germans of WW1 were actually the farthest behind in technology of ships, tanks, aircraft, light machine guns and more. The fallschirmjager took at least 25% casualties on Crete when attacking and under equipped, outnumbered, un supported by air enemy, many died without ever jumping from the planes since the islands defences of bofors guns and 3 inches shot them out of the sky. the SAS and rangers were amongst the gutsiest of all troops in WW2, the germans never had the quality troops to ride into a well defended enemy airfield in jeeps and destroy dozens of aircraft like the SAS under major stirlings command did in north africa, the germans never scaled hundred foot cliffs to assault shore batteries while outnumbered and under fire during their whole climb up like the rangers did at point du hoc, in fact, the germans did far more unsuccessful sneak operations then the allies. Plus neither the rangers nor the SAS were dropouts or failures and even if they were they found their niche in life and fought as the finest soldiers in the world, they also had pride, self honor, and were proud to serve for their countries whether Australia, New Zealand, the USA, UK or India.

In anti air the allies had great equipment but since they dominated the air and the germans never got a lot of strategic bombers they didn't get to try it out, german flak didn't deter typhoon and p-47 pilots from wiping out whole convoys of troops, and the success of flak is grossly over rated when against heavy bombers. The bofors gun is amongst the worlds finest and though not as rapid fire as the far lighter projectile armed german 20mm, it was far better then the german 37mm, also, if you're talking self propelled AA guns then the crusader AA mk II is the best with its twin oerlikons, each oerlikon had a far higher rate of fire then the german 20mm's, since there weren't many german aircraft anymore by the time of its deployment, it was used against infantry, capable of penetrating even brick walls with its shells, its HE shells were too light to make a good effect on most aircraft without a direct hit though, and this was the wirbelwinds problem too, not to mention that it couldn't shoot to the altitude of heavy bombers. what you're saying about 460 infantry men getting killed on D-day by a wirbelwind is false since the allies lost about 10,000 soldiers, similar to the german losses which means that considering the problems the allied invasion had to face it was a stunning success. Nearly none of the german defense lines held and the d-day defenses were breached, and most german batteries were overwhelmed by troops, airstrikes, and naval bombardments.

The stukas were only good as long as the enemy didn't have the air force to fight back, even the out dated polish pz. 11 shot them down when they attacked them, the stuka wasn't very maneuverable and saying it was an advanced design is bull, it didn't have retractable undercarriage just like the val and its rear gun was a lone 7.62 mg, no better then the skua or val and half the firepower in a dauntless's rear gun. it could penetrate fortifications but when flak crew held their ground, they were swept from the air. Also, british aircrews held it in contempt once they learned how vulnerable it was, at the time, the best dive bomber would have been the skua if it had gotten the engine it deserved, instead this honor goes to the dauntless, the skua/stuka are second and the val is last, the dauntless and stuka had the same carry capacity but the dauntless had better armament and better speed, as far as I know, the only dive bombers that were used intentionally as fighters were the dauntless and skua.

The panther was good but not amazing, its two strengths were front armor and gun, also its cannon was unrelated to the panzer IV's weaponry, while its forward plate was better then the tigers, its flank armor was a mere 45-55 mm(on the turret, even less on the hull), barely enough to survive a 2lb gun at 500 yards, It also copied a lot from the t-34 which is acclaimed by many as the most influential tank of ww2 along with the t 38.

The king tiger was slower then the tiger I since it used the same powerplant while being 14 tons heavier. Allied tanks were great too, the pershing had just about the same armor, gun and better speed then the tiger, the churchill was even lighter then the panther yet could cross huge obstacles and was immune to most german AT weapons from the front, it was mostly used as a specialist vehicle though ans from the flank it could kill a tiger, the too late to reach the war centurion was way better then the tiger and the IS-2 could outmatch every Axis tank, not to mention the highly influential IS-3. the matilda is too old to be compared with the tiger, it was out of service before the tiger appeared and in its time it was just as dangerous as a tiger.

I agree the panzer IV was a good tank, and definitely the most long lived and improved and nearly as good as the t-34, when compared with sherman its a god of war but it couldn't match the newer generations of allied tanks like the comet.

all infantry AT weapons from the bazooka to the panzerfaust share a similar weakness they rely on HEAT effect and can be deflected or detonated too far away to make a difference and with the exception of the piat, none can shoot from a building. If the chaffee couldn't flank a tiger then how did these chaffees succeed in flanking and wrecking two without a loss. As said though, don't compare the matilda with the tiger, they are from two separate eras of war.

Now don't get me wrong, the ju-88 was a good plane, but the mosquito was better, it was of cheap construction but was used as a fighter, recon plane, night intruder, bomber, pathfinder and many other roles, it could carry 20mm cannons, machine guns, 57mm cannons, rockets, bombs, flare and more, it could escape nearly anything with pure speed and the things it was slower then, it could usually climb to a far higher altitude, also, while wood seems like bad construction, it is rather hard to hit well processed wood in a vulnerable place.

In WW1 there was no winner and all failed, the british infantry were, however the finest in the world and they introduced many innovations like the tank. Also, the british never got in a position to attack the Yamato, and the battle of britain was realistically and statistically a british victory, the british lost less troops and stopped the luftwaffe from bombing britain. The british needed canadian help but realize that britains population is a lot smaller then germanies yet it pulled offf amazing victories. Dunkirk was technically a defeat, but in the long run it was a victory, it preserved the core of britains army that would eventually storm normandy, france, the rhine and germany.

The british soundly whipped napoleons a** in nearly every battle from trafalgar to waterloo.

Fun fact, the arado 234, or "blitz bomber could be shot down by a diving spitfire and could only carry 2000-4000 lb's of bombs, and a hard to aim 20mm rear armament, not so impressive after all, right.

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the germans got the techenology on their side. while allies were strugglng to use ther numbers instead of their poor techenology of air and land. on land. weak tanks with low armament and mostly outdated stuff.... in the air. some flying tourist planes switched to fighters were awfully beaten by the more powerfull luftwaffe's fighhters and their bombers were'nt good either. lancaster was a plane with an armor barley whistands bullets and gets ripped off litterly after taking few hits. wellingtons were worse. much weaker guns. very weak armor. very slow.
B-17 bombers were unbelivably velunarble to flak and AA. it had a very slow speed that over france the AA scored more kills then ever. the ME-109 dived on B-17 bombers. easy as pie tactic to over kill the bombers. enemy fighter escort could be easily overrun if they want to. with fighter superioriority. they could light and shoot down evrey fighter escort with a couple 190 BF FW fighters. the germans also invented "the wing" a huge large jump towards tomorrow's militry techenology. the "wing" was a jet flight stealthy enough to hide away from enemy's own fighters. fast enough to run away from them. rareley detected by radar. was a weapon could reckon an entire enemy orgnization or base or movement with pictures and high details. the germans mastered techenology inventing weapons of tomorrow in their days.

The allied tanks were only slightly worse in the west and just as good in the east and in the air, they dominated, the bombers exacted a roughly 1-1 toll with enemy fighters when unescorted and this included losses to flak. when escorts like the p-51 appeared, luftwaffe pilots became too scared to take to the skies ::)

And on the topic of "The Wing", don't make me laugh, it was what's called a paper project that never got into service or even into prototype, maybe I should start mentioning projects like the Handley Page flying wing.

The raiden had a max speed of 382mph which is totally inadequate to fight allied fighters, I looked it up and learned it was only good at low altitude and scored only occasionaly while being outmatched by mustangs, corsairs, and hellcats, even in the hand of the best pilots. Also, all american fighters were armed very well, with mixes of 4 .50 cals and 20mm's and 6 .50cals.

Honestly, the ki 44 was slow and under armed and armoured, its only advantage was maneuverability. and don't say it was a great b29 killer, it couldn't even reach the b29's operational altitude.

That scene doesn't appear to be fail for the p51, I saw several bombers smoking and catching on fire at the engines and ones wig blew off, it also appears to be footage from just 1-2 fighters. Where did you get the statement that the p-51 was the first allied fighter to match luftwaffe equipment, are you sure that you don't mean it was the first fighter capable of maintaining its combat ability after long range flights.

the FW190 was a good plane but about 3-5 months after its introduction it was getting killed by the spitfire mk IX's , the me 109 could beat a 5 year older hurricane and were roughly on par or worse then a spitfire. the spitfires armor was far better then the zeros, in the bomber versus fighter stats, look above. the spitfire had either 8 mgs or 4mgs and 2x20mm cannons by the way.

The zeros armor may have been improved but its maneuverability suffered and 7.7mm mgs are near worthless against self sealing fuel tanks and armor. Also, 355mph is awful in a world where the standard fighter speed is about 400mph :P

The kate was crap, it had no forward firing armament and is comparable to the devastator, the only way it or other torpedo bombers could achieve success is by surprise(Taranto, pearl harbor) or with huge fighter escort(Coral sea). the albacore and swordfish were just as good despite being biplanes and the kate was severely under armored to gain speed torpedo bombers don't need. At Coral sea and especially midway the americans smashed the japanese. the avenger was doubtlessly the finest torpedo bomber of the war, it could carry more then a kate, was faster and better armored then a kate, had an internal bomb bay, and had a .50 cal in a stabilized turret allowing great firepower.

Dive and zoom was discovered the hard way far sooner then the americans recovered the wrecked zero at the aleuitan islands, also, the p-40's of the flying tigers were slaughtering zeros with contemptuous ease.

Also, after the zeros brief bout of glory, the japanese never had a chance of air superiority and most of their fighters, bombers and tanks were outdated before they hit the battlefield, in the indian raid the japanese took the allied equipment down separately over a longer period of time then you claim.

The results of the bismarck sea were far better though, 50+ japanese fighters shot down, most transports sunk and almost all escort vessels sunk for the loss of a p-38 and a b-17 :O :P
Wake island is a wonderful example of the skill and heroism of allied troops.
@Mr. war Thank you, thats exactly what I have heard and am telling warlord ;) :thumbup:

Gabbe

  • Guest
Re: open historical conversation
« Reply #59 on: 27 January 2011, 00:52:31 »
your full of knowledge ..

wyvern

  • Guest
Re: open historical conversation
« Reply #60 on: 27 January 2011, 03:16:30 »
Thanks ;D ;D, though try to argue with me in math and your sure not to get much of an answer or argument :O :O.

This is a great topic by the way

the warlord of the reich

  • Guest
Re: open historical conversation
« Reply #61 on: 27 January 2011, 17:42:29 »
germans if had completed some of their prototypes would've turned the tide of war. in the blink of an eye. with their Dornier Do 335 few at hand. would've compleetley annihlated evrey spitfire and evrey mustang.

germans were unlike the british not barbarians they had ME 262 which was athing nothing can whistand: big armament, and guides rockets. were the first truelly modern rockets in the world. also shot down 25 mosquitos and 2 twin engined bombers in the night while an ace is in it. also bieng able to kill the famous B-17 bomber in a single run. is also a very effective anti ground.  yeah go ahead...... call those dorniers crap. while they got improved to fighter-bombers can mount radars and shoot down and scored high bomber kills over berlin-france while a Dornier Do 217 sank the famous powerful italian battleship roma and also Do 217 became the first aircraft in military aviation history to deploy a form of precision-guided munition, in the form of the Fritz-X radio-guided, free-fall bomb in combat. oh uh..... check out the Messerschmitt Bf 110 heavy fighter. a plane the allies dreamt of.... heavy fighters and bomber destroyers knowen to lack radar. not this one! this is a long techenological leap forward. this plane has an actuall advanced radar mounted on it. bieng so modern and so powerfull. having to be the world's FIRST FIGHTER EQUIPPED WITH EJECTION SEATS !!! LOL  i dont think any allied plane would have one. germanss and british. built themselves an air school. a school where their enemy student evreytime start a rebellion and build a new aircraft. the teachers take out big sticks and teach who's their superior. this is pretty much what was happening in the air. germans build great planes. allies struggle tto build better. they fail. lol.

pershing. was barelly a heavy tank.... a much poorer gun but with a niceturret. a weak armor for heavy tank. if a tiger's side armor is bad. switch your words and say all allied tanks had a weak side armor too. jeez. tigers would kill churchills. since you like speed in a tank. why talk about churchill? its unbelivably slow. hardly reaches a speed of 22 MPH and with a poor gun. barelly able to shoot tiger's armor before it gets overkilled. even it would hold the damage long. it would die quickly. a tiger has a 88MM not something weak. 88MM was something far stronger your mind can think of. one shot from it could kill a pershing and will kill evrey allied medium tank in a single shot. then how it would do to light ones? probably send them flying. this gun is mounted on tiger's turret. not to mention there was models with modern turrets instead of the prsche lder turret. also HE shells would do poorly against it. dont forget that entirley british army has knowen for a big lack of AT weapons in its infantry army.

dude really. if the wirbel wind's false the allied superheroes in a house would be false. go read or go see it or go hear it. a wirbelwind did that on D day. the germans killed twice the allies wdid while bieng on a severe lack of supplies, numbers, strength, an most importently petrol. the afrika korps held a very long while of the war under pressure from a masive outnumbering allied force. the germans were lacking support. strength and petrol yet they fought heroiclly. in russia they were going on million VS 8 million enemy battles. in the other front they had to hold france while attacking britian which is something far your an think or imagine of a small country keeping so many others with them. they started inn europe. but the cowardly british startd capturing and slaughtering primitive peacefull people throughout the world. africa.... asia..... americas. they like stalking weaker. much weaker people. they never fough something atleast 2 times weaker then them by declaring war on it. they always like to have alot of skills in respecting others for help. i think they mastered the art of kissing arse. they had an evil queen in the past. a king with 8 wifes. killed each one or abandoned and forsaken ohers for a more "better" one. hey you know what else? germans were brave because they had a great leader who said true words. laid successful conquests. historicans described him an equel of napoleon. he was a very smart and beloved leader who also brough germanny into its short lived golden age. they also nazism as something they could be proud with. proud to fight for. also they dident use alot of propaganda like the british did. british describing the luftwaffe "fat man's prize fighters" and those prize fighters were killing spitfires and slaughtering evreything the brits had. wurgers were something could be only matched by very late fighters. not stupid early spitfires. tempsts inherited their poor agility from typhoons. although tempsts were faster, the typhoons were sslow stuff. not agile. only 4 rockets. while stuka with a crap load of bomb made a screaming death in their dives. slaughtered allied tanks with a very masterpiece accuracy. they always scored a bull's eye even on small targets and nests. while brits had weakling dive bombers. lancasters had a very poor defense although with a better armor, were too weak; weak guns. could be shot down by lightly armed WW1 planes due to lancaster's poor placement of turrets. also waas definatly lacking engine protection. those engine can be a bull's eye shot by a stuka light gun. by the way stuka's rear gun a gun of amazement. it was actually very feared by the spitfire pilots. due to its acuraccy and due to spitfire's very thin armor. even a stuka could survive an attack from a spitfire. but speed is something else. stukas were always praised and said to be world's most advanced in . helldivers sucked awfully bad.  dauntlesses were largelly described equells of vals.  meaning a val had its chance to manuever and win turn fights while a dauntless was hardly something could move and fight without getting shot alot durinng the proccess. especielly this increases due to all IJN fighters were flying ninjas able to manuever and kill anything on thei way.. manueverbility matches speed better. due to speed is something will allow yyou to run away. but if not agile. you cant turn around and face your attacker.   honestly though.

raidens. were designed to be the new superiors of those stupid corsairs and hellcats. vastly outnumbered and unskilled but brave the japanese were winning considrably. they swiftly domniated half of asia. in outnumbered victories. in china. they fared strongly against all fronts. russians, chinese, philipense, indonesians, and americans. yet the won. and deserved it. in the seas. zeros domniated skies first. they they were still vastly superior to corsairs but not hellcats. were upgraded with self sealing fuel tanks and their already exellent armament pentrated hellcats armor. also the oscar. was more agile then anything allies had untill the very end of the war. armament could pentrate armors though the problem was there was only 2 guns while your claiming it had very light guns. if so. the how the hell did most japanese aces score most of their kills in it? and by the way. zeros with a 12: 1 kill ratio. were described a war wonder. were also praised by all belligrents. and knowen for an agility allowed i to fare against a much much more outnumbering odds. by seprating them with great agility and avoiding fire from others. would make a quick run and kill an armored enemy fighter and quicckly manuevre more. patiance is virtue because it would be a long fight. also corsair was armed with only 2 guns. same for hellcat. so dont talk to me about fire power the japanese fighters knew how importent it was. also zeros were long ranged. much more long ranged. and they can definatlly ultra overkill a p-40 dude. seriously are you stupid? it was only for very low altitudes. and was also very lightly armed and armored. in a turn fight. a warhawk pilot would stop controlling the fighter and start preying. or jump away from the fighter. dont forget that since you claim allies were killing those zeros. then how the hell did they fear it so much to even praise it. by the way. raidens were superiors to all allied fighers. especielly late ones. was also weak to only mustangs. and dont forget  that shoki fighters and george fighters were also superior. not to mention the legendary "shinden" which would. without joking. make a very quick work out of any allied fighter or bomber. atleast the japanese had jet fighters too. not the allies who sticked to their big numbers. not to mention in ships. iowa was a lightly armored battleship considring to yamato's. stop jjoking dude. yamato was killed alone. looking at the fear of the US they like stalking lonley people and enemies untill they go alone. yamato was sent to the last 300 SPARTAN SAMURIA stand. not a cowardly big fleet with millions of planes in it. you say it had a flet. lol what fleet? your talking about those small patrol boats and small AA vesels? lol. joke..... yahagi was a casualty of 11  bombs and 4 torpedos..... yamato was a casualy of alot of bombs (historicans say 4 but they dident confirm that theres doubts of more) yamato got hit by 14 torpedos.... OMG 14? thats hellish. even so. the historicans confirmed that theres a number of more hits.  was a brave crew who stood against 400 planes. were awarded for scoring 14 enemy kills. even when their radar was blown and they started firing without coordnition. independantly they killed more...... the battle ship's beehive would ;litterly leave a plane in very small pieces due to a mmain gun fire shells heavier thenn a small hyundia car.

fail. in the video. if a planes get smoken. it mean its armor was pentrated only. not meaning it got destroyed. by the way ohkas were rockets. not biplanes. pentrating a massive AA barrage. would be easy for it. it happene alot that it got great succcess. not big failures. vals were epic bombers. fared greatly against advanced fighters. and dude. dont talk anything about kates of you dont know them well. they were superior. far advanceed to all other bombers. by the way. it was replaced with the even more strong jill. and vals were not getting very obselent but even so. they were replaceed by one of the most monsterous and smartest of creations. judy bombers were fastest bombers of the whole entire war. judy bombers were agile. not to mention powerfull ship killer. vals were great but judies were greatern carrying a strong load. they were very exceptional: the USS franklin was litterly one second away from sinking after bieng attacked by a single judy bomber. The D4Y was relegated to land operations where both the liquid-cooled engine D4Y2, and the radial engine D4Y3 fought against the U.S. fleet, scoring great successes. An unseen D4Y bombed and sank the Princeton on 24 October 1944. D4Ys hit other carriers as well, by both conventional attacks and kamikaze actions. In the Philippines air battles, the Japanese used kamikazes for the first time, and they scored greatly. D4Ys from 761 Kokutai may have hit the escort carrier USS Kalinin Bay on 25 October 1944, and the next day, USS Suwannee. Both were badly damaged, especially Suwannee, with heavy casualties and many aircraft destroyed. A month later on 25 November, USS Essex, Hancock, Intrepid and Cabot were hit by kamikazes, almost exclusively A6M Zero fighters and D4Ys, with much more damage. D4Ys also made conventional attacks. All these D4Ys were from 601 and 653 Kokutai

oie. 7.7 mm was knowen for high firepower. trust me. if theres a list for low speed fighters and low firepower. wildcats would go in. (the first version without the six guns)

zeros. were unbelivably. agile. light armor. all the light armor meant you could do a performance with only a basic training. if a b-26 goes further lower. oscars gonna dive and send it to morr's realm.

dude epic failure. the were beating him by numbers. in austerlitz. napoleon had his outnumbering enemies to their knees. in waterloo. there was technically a french defeat in the 3rd day. a day of a brave charge.

lol? dude. what self honor? seriously? did they had something to hold on too? just saying "british" killed while bieng outumbered. in france. the massive bastions fell casualty to stukas. stukas were also used in a battlefield where theres not alot of time to get a big AA screen for your safety. with this sykological disaese spread out in the allied ranks called "tiger fear" i dont know its name. but its purpose was fear from tigers completley had its hand over the whole allied army. with tigers infront of them, scary "screaming death" stukas above them, epic fallschirmjager tank killers, dont forget jets lining up in rows waiting their lucky chance to be able to claim 100 kills before others would. and "amerika bombers" would fly all the way to new york. butcher birds. neither in world war 1. british had better guns in their ships while thin aarmors covered its decks. and in the skies. red barons spreadd a quick havoc across the whole battlefield. and massive "mobile forts" tanks made a thick wall of mobile bastions stuffed with mediaval looking guns. making it seem alot like mr war's machine (but
with cannons all over) also in their front. sturmtruppen outnumbered kicked british arses right out of trenches using shovels to fight and light grenades. zonders fared fearsomlly against the poor british artillery.  the british had a past to remember of preying on weaks and when faring the strong they start kissiing evreyone's ass for help. in world war 1. the germans had the railroad guns when there was pretty much no air superiority for the british with red barons over the sky. germans held their own in outnumbered battles. saying "our ways are the ways of the world" then they started a conquest to capture the world. going to africa thinking they could capture it all with a handfull of mostly conscripted africans o drifted boys and old men from their other colonies.. atleast the germans had some self respect.  also in world war 1 the british tried to sneaklly win the war with the french while fighting them twice. in napoleonic war and in world war 2. in the old past. they seek to conquer united states using an army of "advanced" recruits but the militia fared well. in palastine. more militia beaten british "advanced" recruuits. they had to run away once they realized it. am not a big time history freak. but i think with no offense that british are sellfish greedy pridefull people. they have no good thing in their past yet they have some guts to be pride about it. the germans stand to the day where the allies reached berlin itsellf and forced their flags in it. while churchill's having an another fat duck on his personall castle. asking his advisor "how many wifes do i have by now?" while trying to comfort their british and saying "we're awesom!!!!" so he dos'nt get screwd over and start spilling his money on new guns. the british barely protocted london. the docks were killed. towwer of london wounded. lots of buildings died under HE11 and stukas used wronglky. by the way. how the hell did the germans used blitzkrieg with tigers...... pushing it fast/ no. it was that tactic which made the tigers go so fast. in france the whole defense line. none of those defense lines stood to stukas nor held to the grenadiers. or the tanks. by the way i wouldnt call panzer 3 a slow light tank. more like french and russian light tanks. mostly with 32MPH speed and with much poorer guns. panzer 3 was a descripingll good light tank (held in the best light tank of WW2 catogry.) hey you know what else? 88MM gun would disable a shermann in a single shot. nor cruiser or cromwells. had nearly no armor. cromwell had some stuff to provide protection against very light shells. cruisers armor would be killed aby pistols. seriously. it had the worst armor of a tank in the world. lee tanks were thee main US tank for half of the war. in propaganda described as one of world's best tanks. while its probably world's worst. even WW1 tanks could do better then it. it has the mobility of an ultra-heavy tank. the gun of a light tank. protection of a wooden blank. especielly that its bulky armor could be killed easily but it was described to be well armored against explosions. no. a shell would go through that armor and explode inside. thats not the end, it would set on massive flames with its poor fuel type. those things would happen to the sherman aswell.  nor the air superiority was good. having only latest spitfires was something sucked up the whole money in the brittish bank. due to their foolishnesss. buying a new daiimond for the queen or king evreyday to be just stocked up in the tower of a clock for no reason. absloutly no reason.  just probably to go watch it untill your bored so you go buy new ones and stock it along. meanwhile. the litterly outdated british army held with them a meusem. they got WW 1 stuff. nothing like the germans had. germany had best guns and best automatic machineguns. and best tanks. no doubt. also the best navy (even if most of their guns were cdiscarded to used inn land batteries and railroad guns) while even so. HMS hoof got messed up emerssingly bad by bismarck. even more ships got sank  by bismarck. also the british bofor gun was actually largelly lacking a range. had a high firepower despite. and 20MM had a no doubtlly. higher speed of fire and was much cheaper. for bofots 40MM had an extremlley high price for an AA gun, dont forget that ostwind was an another self proplled AA gun the germans had.

« Last Edit: 27 January 2011, 18:34:50 by the warlord of the reich »

Hagekura

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Re: open historical conversation
« Reply #62 on: 27 January 2011, 21:42:36 »
ok i just wanted to share a story with everyone about my uncle in Vietnam.

He was in the army and useing a mine detectore looking to clear the road for the trucks when suddenly they were amboushed he wenct to take cover when he was shot in the neck. It went in one side and out the other. Surprisingly it dident hit anything inportent and he lived. He than was in shock so he dident know he was shot. He just knew he fell on his combat knife that was in his hand. He felt it stab his leg. Then when the medic rescude him he kept yelling at the medics MY LEG MY LEG!!! and they told him that his leg wasent the problem that it was his neck. He lived to tell the story to me and im telling the story to you guys.  :) :)  
Very interesting story.thank goodness your uncle didn't dead. :thumbup:

Here is a my grandfather's funny story during the WWII.he was an Imperial army's tank crew and he and his company assigned to the rabaul island.His company often salvaged many stuffs from the sunken supply ships by using their tanks.so his company had plenty of equipments than other companies.
One day they discovered beautiful chinaware from salvaged stuffs,so they used the chinaware as a tableware.
and another day when they had meal with the chinaware,a man from other company who was once been in the china came and saw their table and surprised.He said"What're you doing?It's a chinese toilet."
Bushido to iu wa shinu koto to mitsuketari.

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the warlord of the reich

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Re: open historical conversation
« Reply #63 on: 27 January 2011, 23:31:56 »
ok i just wanted to share a story with everyone about my uncle in Vietnam.

He was in the army and useing a mine detectore looking to clear the road for the trucks when suddenly they were amboushed he wenct to take cover when he was shot in the neck. It went in one side and out the other. Surprisingly it dident hit anything inportent and he lived. He than was in shock so he dident know he was shot. He just knew he fell on his combat knife that was in his hand. He felt it stab his leg. Then when the medic rescude him he kept yelling at the medics MY LEG MY LEG!!! and they told him that his leg wasent the problem that it was his neck. He lived to tell the story to me and im telling the story to you guys.  :) :) 
Very interesting story.thank goodness your uncle didn't dead. :thumbup:

Here is a my grandfather's funny story during the WWII.he was an Imperial army's tank crew and he and his company assigned to the rabaul island.His company often salvaged many stuffs from the sunken supply ships by using their tanks.so his company had plenty of equipments than other companies.
One day they discovered beautiful chinaware from salvaged stuffs,so they used the chinaware as a tableware.
and another day when they had meal with the chinaware,a man from other company who was once been in the china came and saw their table and surprised.He said"What're you doing?It's a chinese toilet."


LOL I SWEAR TO GOD MADE ME LAUGH!!!!!
 

hey i really wanna know and hear more about those reall fun history. its one of my epicest dreams to hear stories of th powerfull, heroic japanese army. it was a powerfull army. won in alot of outnumbered battles (phillipenese campaign. malayan campaign, dutch east indies campaign)  hey did your uncle particepate in battles like bataan or coregidor or dutch east indies campaign? those battles were battles where the heroic japanese army snatched victory from the jaws of defeat. earning their glory in outnumbered victories with outstanding remarkable kills to their losses.


allies had in dutch east indies campaign:
33 warships
41 submarines
234 aircraft
67,000 Dutch troops
8,000 Anglo-American troops

the japanese had in dutch east indies campaign:

52 warships
18 submarines
50,000 troops

the japanese heroiclly killed 2,383 allied soldiers and captured 59,733 enemies while losing ONLY 671 soldiers. epic allied failure. an unthinkable victory actually. a pyrrhic one!

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[URL=http://www.almlf.com][IMG]http://www.almlf.com/get-1-2011-almlf_com_qtcldbuy.jpg[/img][/URL] victorious japanese troops at bataan. celebrate their hard earnt victory

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[URL=http://www.almlf.com][IMG]http://www.almlf.com/get-1-2011-almlf_com_zha0iebt.jpg[/img][/URL] victorious japanese troops lowering american flag to put the banner of the rising sun instead. at corregidor

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[URL=http://www.almlf.com][IMG]http://www.almlf.com/get-1-2011-almlf_com_s2ey7lcc.jpg[/img][/URL] japanese flamethrower burning enemies in a bunker lol
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[URL=http://www.almlf.com][IMG]http://www.almlf.com/get-1-2011-almlf_com_wmqffa8u.jpg[/img][/URL] japanese armor advancing towards the jungle. it was one of japan's armor advantage that it was unique and able to enter towards forests and woods. bieng exellent anti-infantry was something else

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[URL=http://www.almlf.com][IMG]http://www.almlf.com/get-1-2011-almlf_com_dymgd6cf.jpg[/img][/URL] japanese troops landing at corregidor

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[URL=http://www.almlf.com][IMG]http://www.almlf.com/get-1-2011-almlf_com_5r06od6s.jpg[/img][/URL] Japanese artillery in action against Corregidor

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[URL=http://www.almlf.com][IMG]http://www.almlf.com/get-1-2011-almlf_com_np2tqxl8.jpg[/img][/URL] Victorious Japanese troops atop Hearn Battery. they deserve rewards and medals for their awesomness

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[URL=http://www.almlf.com][IMG]http://www.almlf.com/get-1-2011-almlf_com_02d7e20g.jpg[/img][/URL] japanese troops mobbing up and advanciing on kuala lampur

« Last Edit: 5 April 2016, 00:55:48 by filux »

wyvern

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Re: open historical conversation
« Reply #64 on: 28 January 2011, 02:20:26 »
When you talk of prototypes, you make me laugh, if I was to say allies had good prototypes I could mention the Sea Hawk of Britain, the p-80, the vampire and more, the german protoypes were in fact, mostly paper projects that never got off the drawing board, and if built would have probably never gotten off the ground. Plus, all generations of future tanks, for example borrowed heavily from russian, not german designs, why the germans blew up the MAUS prototypes is beyond me since there was no way the allies would be dumb enough to copy and build such a worthless monstrosity.

The me 262 was fast but thats just about where the advantages end, the quad 30mm cannons were high calibre but inaccurate, low velocity and short ranged, not to mention that they had a tendency to jam, it completely lacked maneuverability and its engines tended to give out or blow up in mid air, the me262 didn't even have a 1-1 kill rate it was probably more like 1 allied plane-1.5 me262's. By the way, where you're getting your stats is beyond me, since the amount of kills your mentioning in one night never occurred.
Fun fact:in 1938-39 the british tested the hurricane against a sopwith camel in a maneuvering mock fight, the camel won. :O

The Do 217 was mediocre when it appeared but other then as a glide bomb transport, it had no use or niche of usefulness.

And yeah the me110 was something the allies wished all germans were equipped with, because it was a piece of crap, it wasn't maneuverable, it was slow, not very well armed and in day fighting they were getting whooped, at night they did little better but were still getting massacred by intruder mosquitoes. The german airfields were soon a very dangerous place due to the mosquito night fighters that disabled landing and taking off fighters with ease. Plus the air war went something like this, 1939 luftwaffe dominates, 1940 luftwaffe gets whooped by the RAF, 1941 focke wulf 190 appears, the luftwaffe owns the sky, 1942 spitfire IX appears, the luftwaffe never again rules the skies.

The pershing was as heavy as a panther but had armor and a weapon equal to a tiger I and was slightly faster and more reliable. A churchill was slower and less well armed then a tiger but far lighter, more reliable and better armored, not to mention that it was far better suited to the infantry support purpose it was built for.

One shot from a tiger can kill most allied tanks in the 5-40 ton category but it would have trouble killing a churchill VII or crocodile, a perching could stop its shot as could a IS-2's armor. Also, the german armor on tanks while thick was extremely brittle and low quality after 1944 making it far easier to penetrate. The 88 also wasn't a particularly good weapon against ground targets and they never had really more modern turrets. plus the weapons that could kill it with HE, the ISU-152's gun for example had a huge shell that would shake the armor off, kill the crew with shell shock or flying splinters or even rip the turret off. Also, the british were known for great AT weapons from the 2lb to the 17lb cannons that devastated german tanks.

Plus there are no records of a wirbelwind doing such damage, the allies lost 10,000 troops and the germans lost 9,000 and afterwards the allies consistently inflicted more damage then they received. the afrika korps was not so outnumbered until El Alamein and on the eastern front the russians only started gaining a numerical advantage in 1943. The germans didn't help their situation either since the citizens of conquered countries became determined to eliminate their tyrannical reign.

The british conquered many nations but I wouldn't describe most of them as peaceful or weaker, they didn't always ask others for help and fought courageously and were usually outnumbered.

The nazis used a tremendous amount of propaganda and lies and though they inspired their people to fight they were plain evil, Hitler was a hopeless leader and all his successes can be credited to his generals who disliked him or his enemies inability to fight back. I don't see why someone should be proud of killing 6 million jews, 6 million Poles, 15-20 million russians, nearly a million British, american and commonwealth peoples, not to mention millions in yugoslavia, soviet territories, and western europe, is that something to be proud of. they shot women, children and even infants without reason, that isn't heroism, thats barbarism, I am not saying allied bombing of germany was any better but its purpose was to destroy industry and it wasn't as destructive.(Though still not good)

British propaganda, while exaggerated was generally true and the luftwaffe was having a tough time against the RAF throughout the whole war. The typhoon was good and the tempest was pure amazing, it was fast, maneuverable had 4 20mm cannons and was a great v-1 and me 262 interceptor not to mention that like its predeccesor the typhoon, it could carry up to 16 rockets on double racks or 2000 pounds of bombs. The brits also soon replaced dive bombers with far more adaptable fighter bombers starting with the amazing little whirlwind.

The lancaster was amazing, it could carry up to 26,000 pounds of bombs was resilient, had good defense armament and when in the hands of the elite they sank the tirpitz, wrecked U-boat pens and shattered several dams and rail tunnels.

Stukas were only accurate as long as the enemy didn't fight back and they weren't so devastating either. the rear gun was a mere 7.92 or 7.62 and could only defend it against an angry pigeon. Speed is far more important then maneuverability and the dauntless was just as good as anything, compared to a val it was equally fast, no less maneuverable, more heavily armed and armored and had a better payload. one pilot gunner pair shot down 3 zeros in a single engagement.

Also, if maneuverability is as important as your making it out to be, then explain to me the devastating japanese defeats at midway an onward. :P

Neither the raiden nor zero, nor any other japanese plane could match the corsair or hellcat, brave or not, plus most japanese aces scored their kills against undertrained chinese not americans or british. plus the 12-1 kill rate was in the early parts of the war. stop bragging about how great japanese fighters were when history shows that american planes smashed them all from oscars to raidens, just look at the charts and you see the difference not to mention that the japanese never got a jet fighter. the p-40's of the US AVG massacred zeros and not to mention that both the hellcat and corsair had a 6 .50 cal battery, I implore you get your historical facts straight. the Yamato didn't survive much considering its size and the fact that the allies swarmed it long after it was sinking, it had a cruiser and several destroyers for escort which is not large but not small either. want an answer to why most japanese aces scored on it, because they had nearly nothing else :P.

When a plane starts smoking or burning it means its engine or fuels been hit in which case its end is rather predictable, also when I said biplane I meant the planes on the Yamato. The successes you listed for the kamikazes are pretty much their only big successes and if a kamikaze hit a british carrier it wouldn't do anything. the judy was not as good as your making it out to be and there are multiple lone aircraft successes based more on luck then actual skill for example the wildcat that sunk a destroyer at wake island.

The problem with the 7.7 is that it can't penetrate the self sealing fuel tanks or armor which the .50 cal can do with ease, the wildcats quad .50 cals were more then enough for un armored japanese planes.

At austrelitz napoleon was fighting russia and austria, russia would in fact eventually help defeat him, also, at waterloo the combined british-prussian force numbered barely 180,000 against napoleons 270,000, the victory was achieved in two phases, the 90,000 strong british halted napoleons troops before bluchers 90,000 prussians arrived fresh for battle to finish napoleons forces off.

realize that the bastions of france like the maginot line didn't fall and the allies only feared tigers if they were untrained or unprepared.

The amerika bomber was never built and the jets were never good enough for everything, war is not based on theoretical bull but on real field work and in real life jets and tigers just weren't good enough no matter what theory says.

british battle cruisers sacrificed armor for speed and heavy weaponry and were equal to their german counterparts, the germans didn't maintain such air superiority and the red baron, while legendary, was barely better then other allied aces.

the tanks were unreliable but induced fear and could be quite dangerous considering the fact that the germans had nothing to fight them. The sturmtruppen were good but compare them to a british rifleman, the brit riflemen could shoot 20 rounds a minute while having to reload their ammo clip at least 4 times. in the revolutionary war the british did not get as badly beaten as claimed and what happened in palestine ::), they withdrew in 1948 and with that everything fell apart in that area. churchill was brave had fought in previous wars and inspired the people of britain to great deeds, the bombing of britain only strengthened the peoples will to fight on. The germans fought to the death in berlin not out of bravery but out of the hope that the western allies would conquer them and not the russians. the british have many things to be proud of in their long history.

The panzer III had a decent gun, and better armor then light tanks but it was too heavy to be a light tank, the valentine, weighing in at a mere 16 tons was just as good in firepower but had worse speed and far better armor. The 88 could take out a sherman and cromwell and cruiser true, but the cruiser a13b light armor was no worse then the early panzer III's and IV's it faced. Also the lee was a decent tank and I have never heard it described as amongst the best tanks, it only served for about a year, which is nowhere near to what your claiming was the length of time it served. the only place it served long was in the pacific because against the japanese, it was near immune to all their weapons while packing enough punch to kill bunkers and all japanese tanks.

before you blame the british for wasting money on diamonds, realize that the future queen Elizabeth served in the auxiliary territorial service during WW2. Also, with the exception of their 1942-1944 tanks the british were very well equipped.

Also before you offend their tanks realize that the british comet was probably the best medium tank of the war, it had a gun powerful enough to take on any german tank, it weighed a mere 30 tons, had 4 inches of armor 360 degrees around its turret and could reach speeds past 35mph.

here are some comparisons for you on the topic of AT and infantry weapons
in the late war the standard british AT gun was the 17lb and 6lb, the german standard was the pak 40, the british guns are better in penetration.
infantry weapons are No.4 rifle which is better then the kar98, the bren which has no comparable german counterpart, the sten which is slightly worse then the mp40, the piat versus the panzerfaust and panzerschreck, the piat has less penetrative power but can be reloaded, is far lighter and can be shot from a building.

the bismarck sank the hood and was sunk in turn, making it a british victory since the bismarck was more modern, heavier and better then the Hood.

the bofors had good range, good penetrative power and decent HE shot, and good rate of fire relatively cheap
the 20mm had mediocre range, decent penetrating power, poor HE shot and a great rate of fire cheap
the bofors is better in general.

I see you still make several false claims and incorrect information, please get everything right and realize that history showed the allies were better armed and equipped then the axis, no matter what statistics may show.
@ hakegura-the allies lost many of the first battles due to being under equipped. the japanese tanks were also markedly inferior to allied designs, when they fought against russia, they suffered terrible defeats due to russias better tank arm, yet they didn't learn the lesson, the american sherman crew were known to arm themselves with only HE rounds due to how vulnerable japanese armor was.

In my opinion the matilda was the best jungle combat vehicle, it had a gun or flamethrower that was good enough to destroy all japanese equipment and was immune to nearly anything the japanese could throw at it.

I wouldn't say the phillipines was such a failure for the allies, considering the low quality of the troops stationed their, singapore was more of a failure but once the japanese started encountering more british, american and australian regulars they got beat up pretty bad, Wake Island was a nice victory for the americans, who sank 2 destroyers and shot down many aircraft despite the disparity in numbers.

Hagekura

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Re: open historical conversation
« Reply #65 on: 28 January 2011, 03:36:13 »
My grandfather was at the homeland when those early campaigns were fought,so he didn't take part in those glorious victories.and He won't tell me so much about in-battle episodes.you know,later japanese campaigns were full of struggle and misery.especially after allies took air and sea domination of the pacific ocean,many pacific islands under japanese were isolated and their supplies were cut-off.Many supply ships were sunken by US taskforces and submarines.Japanese soldiers in those isolated islands were suffered by hunger and plagues.even though they fought bravely,but how brave soldiers they were,they couldn't fight well without food and supplies.
some of the isolated island's - like Iwojima - japanese troops were 玉砕(Gyokusai)した,they were annihilated.
In the rabaul,situation were more settled than other islands,but my grandfather saw many deaths of his comrades,and experienced many absurdity of being the military.for most of the soldiers who actually joined the war,the war was a full of painful memories.
Bushido to iu wa shinu koto to mitsuketari.

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the warlord of the reich

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Re: open historical conversation
« Reply #66 on: 28 January 2011, 10:42:15 »
hey. you know what? allies managed to arrive inn america and call themselkfs americanns after killing its rightfull owners. then bombed german cities and slaughtered french cities aswell. thy bombed alot of japanesehuts and killed buildings made of mostly mud and cloth. then used a nuke. so seriously the allies were awfull people. especielly britian.

by the way. me264s earnt 509 kills over 100 loses. lol epic fail.

yeah. like on evrey pacific battle they conducted brave kamikaze charges on some US marines cowering in their trenches. could you imagine what would've happened if the japanese troops reached their enemy? even if they were outnumbered 1-5 they would shred and tear through the US troops that are too scared to stay and even watch. the japanese troops, frenzy for blood. made many of those brave charges on nearly evrey island battle they had. while in the old battles. the colonies of britian fell dead under the heroism of japanese outnumbered soldiers. the allies are hardly self honor people. except in russia. in USA there was pretty much dumb drunkups. dont count in russia in the allied list. by the way. i wouldnt let the enemy march all the way to me. beat my leader and destroy my homeland. and rob my home so i get peace. the germans fough untill their cowardly barbarian enemies arrived in berlin see the urban fighting in there. als the brave angry society who resisted their abusers and routed them from the field. the british were cowardly. asked for their allied in support in scotland campaign. supported the american rebellion so they can get a piece of their long dreamt of USA and always resulting in stalemates and killed people around the world so they can take their homes. then surrender and leave it. barelly though. the british even when more advanced always allied with other tribes so they can beat one. lol dude. they dident stand up to outnumbered foes. you and all your beloved coward allies. dont deserve a little piece of shreded metal junk left from thousand years ago for winning an outnumbered yet brave foe. the allies killed hitler's youth in jails. brianwashed others. killed surrendring germans. germans were rising white banners yet US troops killed them. alotof prisoners died. mean while all the deaths were started by britian. they begin whole WW2 A by attacking germany for no point. they're fearing of bieng over shadowed by theircounterparts then ran crying for other countries for help.  dont forget world war 1 where they outnumbered their enemies. a single sturmtruppen is worth 20 rifle man since he could easily disable them with his powerfull armor. now you go sit back and never standd up again saying the allies are more brave. germans had a smart great leader. taught france a lesson about superior. having 2 fronts. one of the fronts are on your back if your looking to one. from both bearing millions of enemies/. something not too much of good to hold on. the germans fared hard against cowardly allies. niether they dont like seeieng other strrong country in the world. they fear bieng overshadowed. like in iraq. where they had to call nearly half of the world so they would defeat one foe which is sadam. they feared king faisal. who terrified them with his bold behaviour an his reall loyalty to the saudian house. unlike others who steal the coffers and  do nothing about lazy ministry servants.  king abdulaziz dident fight all the way from riyadh to unify this country from tribal feudualism. they had to brianwash faisal's brther to kill him. seriously how can you gt more cowardly then that?

are you stupid? say yes or no. are you? they give you a choice. a modern jet could reach 1000MPH since your so dreamy about speed. or a stupid spitefire cold be over killed by older me-109 and FW 190 the spitefire IX was something would definatly learn its lesson to a german me264 or a german "pfiel" fighter. those mosquitos were total wood. wake up woo has no many ways of procceccion nor if its a modern procceced would e pentrated by fire arms. jeez they dident made anti-bullet glass for nothing. by the way it was'nt fast either. i think could go up to nearly   and when ever you try to insult zeros. think about the US forces them selfs fearing it praising it even nicknaming it. a 1-12 kill ratio was in pacific. a 90-0 kill ratio over china. and judies were amazing. once you look at the lousy dauntlesses (which are described equells of vals) and the worse helldivers. with a overscrewd up design. poor stalling characterstatic, accurate hits are by luck. low speed. dauntlesses would be killed either if used a raiden.

by the way 4 or 6 well placed 7.7 mm guns would pentrate any armor. there was nothing in the sky would not take no damage from bullets they all do. your bragging about tempst because it killed 15 me264. well heres something for you to know. germans had a superior radar techenology. meaning anything away from them is aproaching. they bring up seats. sit down have popcorn. and watch those me264 performing fire works on those enemy fighters in the sky.
jee. it had guided rockets to so much for sick guns.
« Last Edit: 28 January 2011, 11:14:40 by the warlord of the reich »

wyvern

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Re: open historical conversation
« Reply #67 on: 28 January 2011, 17:07:08 »
bombing was meant to wreck industry and the germans and japanese did the same thing to china, britain and the USSR. Considering how completely the germans were beaten, its lucky that the soviets didn't wipe them out considering the way the germans treated the citizens of russia. explain to the people who had lost everything to german and japanese bombings and massacres that bombing the enemy back was wrong, war is  terrible but there is never an excuse to kill civilians and expect the enemy not to take vengeance.

the me 264 never was built and if your talking about the me262, then tell me, if the total me losses were only 100, where did the remaining 1300 built disappear to, very few of them were captured by the allies which can only mean one thing, they were nearly all destroyed meaning they had more of a 1-2 kill-loss ratio.

the kamikaze charges, aka the banzai charges were a waste of manpower, they never achieved anything and wouldn't have achieved much even if they did reach the americans. the allies lost what, singapore, the phillipines and burma, but soon afterwards turned the tide and bushwhacked the japanese. the japanese soldiers were brave but they didn't have as well trained replacements and lacked good equipment.

The USSR was attacked treacherously and after 1942 were beating the germans out of russia starting with stalingrad and ending with berlin. Berlin was conquered and would have surrendered far faster if americans, not the russians were there.

give me a real world example of british or allied cowardice, they beat the zulu's , the maratha and many others while outnumbered, not with the help of others, britain is a small but brave nation, and though it may lose a battle it never loses the war. the allies didn't kill hitler youth unless they were fighting and if there was any brainwashing it was done by the nazi "education". the americans very rarely killed prisoners and this was only in the case of 1. the german was caught in allied uniform 2. they were concentration camp guards 3. on accident  and in the russian case, they shot all SS men because they knew that the SS was killing their citizens for no reason.

WW2 was started by germany invading poland and britain declaring war in support of poland making all the killing germanies fault, in a sense. The british also refrained brom bombing german cities until the germans bombed warsaw, rotterdam and london. the british combined with their commonwealth were roughly equal in numbers to germany, meaning that until roughly 1942 britain was outnumbered  fighting italy germany and later, japan.

the sturmtruppen were not armored and second of all the germans in ww1 were taught the english were hopeless soldiers but were soon too scared to fight them, the british soldiers were so good at shooting that the german troops thought the BEF had a 1000 machineguns.

beating france doesn't take much and the germans fought on two fronts because they stupidly started a war on both fronts and payed for it.

the last thing about Iraq and saudi arabia is confusing and seems to mix modern wars with the post WW1 conflicts ::).

the spitfire IX was better then all me 109's and equal or better then the focke wulf since each had their own specific strengths, get your facts straight and don't talk about "What if this had happened". wood can be made well and I see you have no idea how hard it is to hit wood in a vulnerable place, why do you think most kills in WW1 were scored by killing the pilot or wrecking the engine, because its near impossible to hit a vulnerable point. the mosquito could outrun all big fighters and even the zero and focke wulf through pure speed, it had 415 mph compared to the zeros 355 and the fockewulfs 408mph and the me 109's 398mph. the me 262, the only plane with a real chance of catching it was unable to climb to the mosquitos altitude. the mosquito was also quite maneuverable.

the zero had good kill streaks against under trained and underequipped chinese and allied pilots but once the better equipment came in they were gettin whooped, the few times they fought the AVG they were beaten despite the inferiority of the AVG's equipment. judies were decent but the dauntless was better. the helldiver could carry 2000 pounds of bombs and had 2x20mm cannons, also the dauntless was out of service before the raiden appeared.

7.7mm mgs are too light to penetrate armor and a self sealing fuel tank will cove up any holes caused by them, this was a problem that plagued british fighters against bombers and the japanese planes throughout the war. the tempest shot down many me 262's and I have no idea where your getting those stats, the me 262's lost over 50planes in two engagements with american fighters for smaller american losses which means your 100 loss statistics are totally false and incorrect. so the germans probably did watch some fireworks, flyingh from their own planes. the germans had no guided air to air rockets and their radar technology was good but the allies were better or at least equal.

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Re: open historical conversation
« Reply #68 on: 28 January 2011, 19:03:58 »
Just as a notice: Discrimination is not tolerated on this board. Keep it about history.

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the warlord of the reich

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Re: open historical conversation
« Reply #69 on: 28 January 2011, 19:13:26 »
already about history dude.

wyvrn, i dident read your post AT ALL because i was working to modify my post you replied upon. i modified it with pictures, details, facts, things would make alot of your words sound like mere nuisance.... i modified it it became very long. ti worked ON THAT FOR 7 HOURS AND GUESS WAT!!!! IT FAILED WHEN I CLICKED THE SAVE BUTTON
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I GOT IN A RAMPAGE. well. am gonna post a new post explaining and re-writing things i wanted to write. cheers :)

the warlord of the reich

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Re: open historical conversation
« Reply #70 on: 29 January 2011, 10:31:53 »
the highly-skilled smart vital healthy brians of germany outmatched the apes and sttone age people lived in other countries. you all see germany as modern millitry country of WW2 only. also what i've said about technology of germans in WW2 is few. you cant belive how many epic creations were still be made. including those weak brianed stupidds of america and britian. saw flying circles said its another planet. you know what was that? that was newly invented secret weapons of germany (was called hunabeu i). mostly for spying purposes. also those creations were stuff far beyoned belife... a giant bigger then a building tank. aircraft of wierd shapes never seemed to be recognized as aircraft. epic looking recon cars. (like krupp raumer) those weak brianed barbarians dident knew it was weapons made by germany's frenkastiens and leonardo davincis of the great powerfull german empire..... far superior then your mind can proccess. you should'nt challanged the germans' techenology. the allied technology litterly seems like s**t compared to this:
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yet another epic fail. most me 262s were equipped with a R4M was used untill the 1955s yeah i knew it your one of those sad losers. also the rest of those fighters were stolen or destroy on the ground by other ground troops. not to mention mostly scrapped and destroyed by luftwaffe to avoid it from bieng stolen!

The Flakpanzer IV "Ostwind" (East Wind in German) was a self-propelled anti-aircraft gun based on the Panzer IV tank. It was developed in 1944 as a successor to the earlier self-propelled anti-aircraft gun Wirbelwind.
The Panzer IV's turret was removed and replaced with an open-top, hexagonal turret which housed one 3.7 cm FlaK 43. In addition to its intended role as an anti-aircraft weapon, the fast-firing gun was highly effective against light vehicles and minor fortifications.
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The 3.7 cm FlaK 43 was one of a series of medium-caliber anti-aircraft cannon produced by Nazi Germany and which saw widespread service in the Second World War. The cannon was fully automatic and effective against aircraft flying at altitudes of 4200 meters and lower. The cannon was produced in both towed and self-propelled versions. brutal aircraft shooter at low-altitudes and still a strong anti-aircraft in high-altitudes
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The 3.7cm FlaK auf Fahrgestell Panzerkampfwagen IV (sf) (Sd.Kfz. 161/3), nicknamed Möbelwagen ("Furniture Van") because of its boxy turret (when closed), was a self-propelled anti-aircraft gun built from the chassis of the Panzer IV tank. It was used by the German Wehrmacht in the European Theater of World War II. was actually a fearsome anti-aircraft gun due to its very high mobility
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The Flakpanzer IV Kugelblitz ("ball lightning") was a German self-propelled anti-aircraft gun developed during World War II. By the end of the war, only a pilot production of five units had been completed. Unlike earlier self-propelled anti-aircraft guns, it had a fully enclosed, rotating turret
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The 12.8 cm FlaK 40, was a German World War II anti-aircraft gun built as the successor to the 88 mm gun. Although it was not produced in high numbers, it was one of the most effective heavy AA guns of its era
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The notorious and fearsome A6M Reisen is better known in the annals of history, and in the minds of the pilots who faced it, as the Zero.
The A6M was a fighter conceived, “specs-first” by the Japanese Navy in 1937. The plane they wanted was to be a carrier- based, highly maneuverable, long range fighter that was capable of defeating heavier land-based fighters toe-to-toe.
Only Jiro Horoshiki of the Mitsubishi company was able to produce a plane that fit the specifications required, and in 1939 the first prototype was created. The A6M was a very clean and aerodynamic airframe even with its bulky radial engine. Its retractable landing gear was set widely for easier landings on carriers at sea. It was also well armed for its fighter role with two machine guns and two cannons. The prototype A6Ms were found to have exemplary turning and climbing ability and so the A6M was put into production in 1940. 1940 happened to be the Japanese year 5700 and so it was known as the Type 0 and thus the name Reisen or Zero.
A test-squadron of 30 Zeroes was sent to China in summer of 1940. The Zero bested all of its competition with ease. Next, the A6M was at the forefront on December 7th, 1941 during the attack on Pearl Harbour. Over the next 6 months the Zero confounded American pilots with its superior maneuverability and its highly trained pilots causing heavy losses to the Americans.
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« Last Edit: 5 April 2016, 01:00:54 by filux »

the warlord of the reich

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Re: open historical conversation
« Reply #71 on: 29 January 2011, 19:57:12 »
The design of Ki-61 Hien was very different from the usual Japanese aircrafts made in the World War 2. Most of the other Japanese fighters were designed with air-cooled radials which were intended to provide ease of maneuverability. But the Ki-61 using a liquid-cooled engine was primarily designed for speed and power. In fact, the Ki-61 looked so different from other Japanese fighters that when it was first appeared in combat over New Guinea (June 1943), the Allies almost concluded that it couldn’t be a Japanese design at all. Initially it appeared as a copy of the German Messerschmitt Me-109. Later it was confused with Italian Macchi C.202 Foglore. Because of this it was code named “Tony” derived from Italian name “Antonio” while the Japanese word “Hien” means shallow.
By 1940, Shin Owada and Takeo Doi had designed Ki-61 under the recognizable Japanese label of the Kawasaki brand. The prototype was completed in 1941 while full production finally began 1943.
The Ki-61 had a pretty sleek and slender fuselage design. The engine was located in front of the cockpit. The wings were of a monoplane low-mounted type with rounded edges. The horizontal and vertical tail surfaces of the empennage were made in a similar way. A single Kawasaki V-12 piston engine offered impressive performance statistics including a 367 miles per hour top speed, a 16,404 foot ceiling limit and an equally impressive 1,118 mile operational range.
The Hien entered the WW2 scene in 1943 in the New Guinea war zone, covering New Guinea, the Admiralty Islands, New Britain, and New Ireland. It seriously caused some pain and consternation among Allied pilots, particularly when they found out the hard way that they could no longer go into a dive and escape as they had from lighter Japanese fighters.
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'Shiden’ in Japanese means ‘Violet Lightning’ and the Kawanishi N1K-J Shiden was in fact a bright prospect for Japanese air force in World War 2. Codenamed George, the Kawanishi N1K-J was a single-seater interceptor and fighter-bomber aircraft. It was used from 1943 till the end of the war. It was made in such a way that it could sustain even heavy damages which was unique for Japanese aircraft. Both the pilots who flew it and those who confronted it consider it one of the best and the most successful Japanese aircraft of that period. About 428 aircraft of Shiden type which was a wheel-landing gear version of the N1K series were manufactured and about 1400+ aircraft of the general N1K model were produced.

Its design was pretty slender and dull and the only intention was to make the airframe streamlined. Its low-monoplane wings were just under and forward of the cockpit which was mounted high to provide good visibility. The forward position of the engine allowed a large propeller hub and cowling. There was a lot of effort put in to make each surface curved and straight edged that proved beneficial to its stability. A single Nakajima NK9H Homare 21 radial piston engine produced quite brilliant 1,990 horsepower.

It could reach a top speed of 361 mph and was capable of a range of 1435 km. Its armament consisted of two 20 mm Type 99 Model 2 fixed forward-firing cannons, two 20 mm Type 99 Model 2 fixed forward-firing cannons, two 7.7 mm type 97 fixed forward-firing machine-guns, and 120 kg of ordnance (generally two 60 kg bombs). The N1K-J was able to evenly match the F6F Hellcat which itself was a successful aircraft.
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http://www.almlf.com/get-1-2011-almlf_com_n37cymgj.jpgMitsubishi Ki-21, where Ki comes from a Japanese word ‘Kitai’ meaning airframe, was a Japanese bomber used during Second World War. Mitsubishi won a production order in November 1937 from Nakajima's Ki-19 prototype to meet an Imperial Japanese Army requirement for a four-seat bomber that would have a maximum speed of at least 249 mph (400 km/h) and which could fly continuously for more than 5 hours. Very few twin-engine bombers anywhere in the world had the capability to match such performances. The Ki-21 was later recognized as the best bomber in Japanese service during World War II as it fulfilled the Japanese Imperial Army’s demands efficiently.

It first saw combat operations during the Second Sino-Japanese War where it participated in the Nomonhan Incident, and in the first stages of the Pacific War, including the Malayan, Burmese, Dutch East Indies and New Guinea Campaigns. Its attacked targets include far reaching widespread areas such as western China, India and northern Australia. The allied forces had nicknamed it as "Sally" or sometimes as "Gwen". It came into picture in 1939, and was seen in action up until 1945. Although, the aircraft had already been outclassed by American and English airplanes but it continued its service till the end of the war.

Clean design of Ki-21 gave it an excellent performance and incredible range. The system possessed two engines on a mid-mount monoplane wing assembly which was essentially all-metal construction with fabric-covered control surfaces, an oval-section fuselage with enclosed accommodation and a plain tail unit of cantilever construction. The cockpit was located just in front of the wing root which helped the pilot to get an upright view of the engines from either side. Its nose had a unique glass arrangement where small windows were fitted in such a way that made looking downward easier than upwards. As many as five personnel could be accommodated in the aircraft.

By the end of the war, the Ki-21 was used in the morbid delivery of suicidal kamikaze units to which the compelling internal payload was put to extensively lethal use. Its variants were Ki-21, Ki-21-Ia, Ki-21-Ib, Ki-21-Ic, Ki-21-II, Ki-21-IIa, Ki-21-IIb and MC-20-I.
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« Last Edit: 5 April 2016, 01:01:55 by filux »

the warlord of the reich

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Re: open historical conversation
« Reply #72 on: 29 January 2011, 20:03:57 »
The Arado Ar 232 Tausendfussler was a special beast. World War 2 was a time of rapid advances and development in technology. These technological advances, especially in the areas of weaponry, played a crucial role in determining the outcome of the war
that was proof to this was the Arado Ar 232 Tausendfussler. This WW2 aircraft, nicknamed “Millipede” because of its multiple sets of wheels which were utilized in the undercarriage, was considered as the first truly modern airplane because its design introduced the features that the standards of today’s transport aircrafts.
The Arado Ar 232 was utilized in the war by the Reichs-Luftfahrts-Ministerium (RLM) or the Reich Air Ministry. This WW2 German aircraft was firs flown in 1941 and was further developed into two model series known as the “A” and “B” models based on the number of powerplants that were utilized. The two models however had millipede-like landing gear assembly, had the same cargo fuselage system (the low-mounted type) and were powered by four engines. The initial design specification of the RLM was to have the “Millipede” run only by twin engines. The replacement of this specification into a four-engine designed made both the Arado Ar 232A and Arado Ar 232B into high performance WW2 aircrafts.
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http://www.almlf.com/get-1-2011-almlf_com_6onromtr.jpgIt was customary for Allied forces during the Second World War to give nicknames to aircraft for them to easily identify and refer to them during communications. Most nicknames were given just for the purpose of identifying planes easier. However, some nicknames given to planes were done so in respect to the enemy aircraft’s performance. Such is the case of the nickname "Lightning" given to the WW2 German aircraft known formally as the Arado Ar 234 Blitz.
The Ar 234 Blitz was a twin-engine designed plane and was considered as the first plane ever to be built that could change roles depending on the purpose intended. The Ar 234 was first intended to be a fast aircraft that can be used for reconnaissance missions, however, the Ar 234 was later modified to become a fast bomber aircraft that was almost impossible to intercept.
Multiple models and versions were made from the first design of the Ar 234 and this included a four-engined version that was later on produced to some extent. By the end of the war, over 200 aircrafts of different versions of this WW2 German aircraft were produced.
The base design of the Ar 234 was a twine-engine system with a high-monoplane design. The engines were installed away from the fuselage and the cockpit was located in the far front enabling a high amount of visibility. Aircraft take-offs utilized rocket-powered tricycles that are jettisoned immediately after takeoff. This WW2 aircraft used to land by skidding on grassy fields until a powered tricycle landing gear was installed to the later versions.
Armaments for the Ar 234 included two (2) 20mm rear-firing cannons which were operated using a periscope. The normal bomb-load for the Blitz consisted of two bombs that amounted to a total weight of 1,100 pounds. These bombs were suspended from the engines.
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http://www.almlf.com/get-1-2011-almlf_com_0l2g9flw.jpgby the way. latest FW190 can reach 550 MPH lol fail.....

The Ju 88 certainly was the most versatile aircraft of the world. no other airplane in history has been subject to so many versions and purposes. Though it made its maiden flight in 1936, it entered service in 1939, and it wasn’t shipped to the front lines before 1941. A total of 14,780 units were produced.
Designed as a high-speed horizontal and diving bomber, it also served as a long-ragne reconaissance aircraft, and some units were equipped for close air support with one 75-mm cannon, two 37-mm cannons or a… flame-thrower! At the end of the war, some Ju 88 were even transformed in radio-controlled flying bombs.
Around the end of the war, it became mainly a night-fighter, with an on-board radar, capable of reaching 674 km/h.
Derived from the Ju 88, the Ju 188 was produced to the tune of 1076 units, and entered service in May 1943. The Ju 188 E2 was the most common, and was used as an anti-vessel aircraft armed with two 1500-lb torpedos and a surveillance radar.
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« Last Edit: 5 April 2016, 01:02:33 by filux »

the warlord of the reich

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Re: open historical conversation
« Reply #73 on: 29 January 2011, 20:04:29 »
Nonetheless, as a bomber, the Stuka, as it was known, would elicit terror for the civilian or soldier hearing it diving – it literally made a hell of a sound which had a terrible psychological effect on the troops. Still a reliable and rugged aircraft, it destroyed more tanks than any other plane except for the Ilyushin Il-2 Shturmovik (a Russian ground-attack aircraft).
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dude. you is should stop failuring and fooling with me. you said amerika bombers were never built. then explain this picture to me? the other me264 big time bomber was built (atleast 3 of it) three of it however was worthy of dropping payloads of a massive formation of b-26 bombers and lancasters. swallow this down your face along with the lancaster lol so much for big lancasters are now becoming "afro" lancasters. the picture is of a ju390 a "new york bomber" you is having massive accuracies! dont say i have them!
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The Henschel Hs 132 was an striving German jet-powered designs in the closing years of the Second World War which couldn’t be used in the way it was intended as only one complete prototype was made available by the end of the war. It had a unique design which featured a top-mounted jet engine. The crew had a strange prone position. It was believed that it would act as a help for combat aircraft to reduce g-forces during maneuvering. The Soviet Army occupied the factory just as the Hs 132 V1 was nearing flight testing, the V2 and V3 being 80% and 75% completed.

The Hs 132 was designed as a jet-powered alternative to the piston-engine design. This amazing new design would never proceed past the prototype stage, as the Soviets Armies had other plans. They destroyed the development facilities and only one full prototype was completed. All the three aircraft which were still under the construction stage were captured by the Soviet forces.

Henschel had submitted a design for RLM approval in April/May 1944, which was approved later as the Hs 132. Its fuselage was of a circular cross-section which was made of metal. A single BMW 003 jet engine was mounted on the aircraft’s top. Due to the complex position of the engine, it was decided to fit the tail with a twin fin and rudder configuration so that exhaust unit didn’t interfere. A tricycle landing gear was used. The cockpit design also helped steep dive during the bomb run. The pilot's controls featured a spring-operated power rudder.

The basic model was armed with one 500 kg bomb and didn’t carry any other armament. After reaching a speed of 910 km/h (565 mph), if in range, the pilot would release the bomb at the target using a pretty ordinary computerized sight. The aircraft was stressed to face 12 G force. Several other versions of the basic airframe were proposed as well.
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The Heinkel He 162 jet aircraft was designed and assembled in three months in an all-out effort to prevent the defeat of Germany near the end of World War 2. Though it was a technical marvel for its time, the aircraft was designed to be among the less expensive and could be built by semi-skilled labor from non-strategic materials like wood. The airplane’s name (Volksjager) literally means “people’s fighter”. This aircraft was meant to be flown by the Hitlerian Youth, young men and women who were for the most part in their teens. Those pilots received their training on gliders and would then pass directly to the jet aircraft.

The fuselage of the He 162 was made of light metal sheets, and the jet engine located just over and behind the pilot, blowing between the fins. Fuel was poured directly into the wings that were made out of wood and protected with a special coating. In case of emergency, a basic ejection seat allowed the pilot to get out of the airplane without being sucked into the engine.

Once the prototypes structural and aerodynamical problem were fixed, the first operational He 162s were delivered to the Luftwaffe in 1945. When the production stopped, approximately 250 units had been built and 800 were at different stages on the assembly lines. The full capacity rate of production had been planned to be of 4,000 units per month.

Even though it is not clear how many He 162s actually saw combat, one of them flown by Lieutenant Rudolf Schmitt presumably scored a victory over Rostock against a Tempest or Typhoon (depending on the source) on May 4, 1945. Shot down a few minutes later, Schmitt ejected safely. The fact that a rookie pilot managed to speaks volume about that aircraft that many consider to be among the best of its time. After the war, the remaining units were taken to the countries of the winning forces and used for jet engine aircraft pilot training.
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« Last Edit: 5 April 2016, 01:03:11 by filux »

the warlord of the reich

  • Guest
Re: open historical conversation
« Reply #74 on: 29 January 2011, 20:05:12 »
The Bachem Ba 349 Natter was probably one of the strangest airplanes ever designed and built during the Second World War. Nicknamed “Viper” by the Allied Forces, this WW2 German aircraft was designed specifically to successfully intercept large formation of Allied bombers which during that time were continuously pounding Germany daily with bombs.
The Ba 349 followed a simple design that even semi-skilled labor could construct one unit in less than one thousand working hours. The design of the wings of this WW2 German aircraft was very simple that they were just plain rectangular slabs made of wood. The wooden-wings did not have any flaps or control devices. The control devices to make the Ba 349 roll, pitch and yaw were installed in the cruciform tail which is made up of four fins and control surfaces. The four control surfaces in the cruciform tail were connected to guide vanes which augmented the control of aerodynamics.
The main engine of the Ba 349 “Viper” was a Walter 109-509A rocket motor that can generate up to 3,740 pounds (lb) of thrust. However, the Ba 349 weighs more than 4,000 pounds when fully-loaded that is why this WW2 German aircraft was installed with four Schmidding 109-533 solid fuel rockets that were bolted two per side to the aircraft’s fuselage. The installation of the additional four rockets to the fuselage made it possible for the Ba 349 to take off vertically and to quickly rise to a suitable attack altitude for intercepting bombers.
The weapons system of the Ba 349 Natter consists of twenty four (24) 2.87-inch Fohn unguided rockets that could be launched in a full volley. The cockpit of this single crew aircraft is heavily armored to protect the pilot long enough to intercept bombers. The principle of the use of the Ba 349 Natter was to be a semi-expendable plane where only the pilot and the four rockets of the fuselage were to be saved after every mission. The idea was to launch this WW2 German aircraft vertically as the Allied bombers get close enough. As the the Ba 349 reaches the attack altitude, the four rockets attached to the fuselage will be jettisoned and the pilot will fire-off a volley of 24 unguided rockets to the closest bomber in the area. The pilot would then set the aircraft’s course to ram another bomber as the pilot ejects out of the plane. (Talk about a cool mission. Of course I’m being ironic.)
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The Mitsubishi J2M Raiden or Thunderbolt was designed like no other fighter before it. It emphasized speed, climb and raw firepower. The J2M was designed specifically to bring down huge and heavily armoured American strategic bombers.
In 1939 the Japanese Navy put together specs for a high altitude interceptor. The most important of the navy’s specifications was for a plane that could climb to 20,000 in six minutes or less. Jiro Horikoshi of the Mitsubishi Company, led a team of designers to create an airframe that emphasized climb and speed over everything else.
When the first prototype left the factory in 1942 it even looked different than every Japanese fighter then flying. The J2M was a squat and compact plane with stubby, laminar-flow wings and a long cowl. The first prototype flights were disappointing and an overhaul of the design was undertaken to correct handling problems. The Mitsubishi Kasei engine was not changed however, despite constant problems with the power source. The Raiden finally entered service in late 1943. With continual power-source problems arising from the Kasei engine and without access to other power sources – mostly due to American strategic bombing – the J2M never reached its full potential. This was fortunate for American forces because the J2M was the only fighter that stood a serious chance against the huge B-29 bomber. It could also out-climb any American fighter then in service. The J2M scored considerable kills at inexperienced hands. truelly lethal weapon..... during the war and after the war the allied testing of the J2M revealed it to be a formidable weapon.
Luckily for the allies only 426 Raidens were built
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Because of the need to replace both the Nakajima B6N Tenzan torpedo plane and the Yokosuka D4Y Suisei dive bomber, the Imperial Japanese Navy (IJN) decided in 1941 to design and produce the Aichi B7A Ryusei. Nicknamed as "Grace" by the Allied Forces, this WW2 Japanese aircraft was a large and powerful aircraft that can both perform the duties of a dive and a torpedo bomber.
The B7A Ryusei was manufactured by the Aichi aircraft firm and its first prototype was flown in May 1942. However, production of this WW2 Japanese aircraft did not start until 1944 because of problems with the delivery of the engines. This made it too late for the B74 Ryusei to affect the outcome of the war since Only 105 aircrafts were produced during World War 2.
The B74 Ryusei "Grace" was designed as a single engine, mid-monoplane design with accommodations for a two-man crew. The underside of the plane was designed to carry a single 1,764-lb torpedo or can be converted to carry two 250 kg bombs instead, a provision that was not present in any other WW2 Japanese aircraft of that time. In addition, the leading wing edges of the B74 Ryusei were mounted with two fixed forward-firing 20 mm cannons. The rear cockpit was also equipped with a single defensive 13 mm machine gun.
The B7A Ryusei, which in translation means "Shooting Star", failed to live up to its full perceived potential. Despite being a large and heavy bomber plane, the B74 "Shooting Star" displayed handling and performance comparable to the Mitsubishi Zero fighters which were also in service during WW2. Most war experts believed that the outcome of the war could have been different had this WW2 Japanese aircraft been produced and fielded in the skies earlier. The "Shooting Star" would have proven to be a worthy adversary to the US Navy’s fighter planes.
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« Last Edit: 5 April 2016, 01:03:49 by filux »

 

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