open historical conversation

[the warlord of the reich]

Although not a particularly modern-looking aircraft, the Aichi D3A sank more allied shipping than any other Axis aircraft both in its dive-bomber role and its later refit as a kamikaze plane. In 1936 a contract opened up to replace the obsolete Aichi D1A – a biplane dive-bomber – with a more modern craft. Aichi’s D3A won the design contest and went into production shortly after. The D3A was the first all-metal bomber used by the Japanese. It was a low-wing monoplane employing the Mitsubishi Kinsei radial engine. The D3A’s landing gear was not retractable and so a longer dorsal fin was added to increase stability. so stop crying to me about its non retractable landing gears.
The Aichi was typically used as a carrier-based bomber. D3As accompanied the first waves that flew over Pearl Harbour, inflicting heavy damage. In the Indian Ocean, D3A squadrons were known to have sunk the British carrier Hermes along with the cruisers Dorsetshire and Cornwall.
D3As were tremendously accurate in their bombing role with four out of every five bombs striking its target.

Code: [Select]

http://www.almlf.com/get-1-2011-almlf_com_obicpi7u.jpg
http://www.almlf.com/get-1-2011-almlf_com_oviudnug.jpg
Internally designated Type K by Nakajima, the Nakajima B5N was designed to meet a Japanese Imperial Navy requirement to replace the Yokosuka B4Y in the year 1935. It was ordered into production as the Navy Type 97 Carrier Attack Bomber. It remained as a standard torpedo bomber for much of World War II. It’s first ever prototype B5N1 saw skies in 1937. Since it had remained in service for more than 4 years successfully, by 1941, the B5N series of torpedo bombers had built the reputation of being the best of their type anywhere in the world. The B5N was first used in the Sino-Japanese War. This war eventually revealed several weaknesses in the original B5N1 production model like the lack of protection offered to its crew and fuel tanks. The Navy did not want to add weight in the form of armour, and instead kept looking to obtain a faster version of the aircraft.

The B5N was nicknamed as "Kate" by the Allies. It could accommodate two personnel one of which was the pilot and the other was a rear gunner. The system derived its power from a Nakajima Sakae 1,000hp (746 Kw) power plant. Although some of the earlier models were fitted with the Nakajima Hikari radial engines. It had a low-wing monoplane design which has inwards-retracting wide-track landing gear. The landing gear was an exceptionally immaculate design. The aircraft could reach a top speed of 235 miles per hour. In 1939 the improved B5N2 version appeared with a more powerful Sakae 11 engine fitted in a smaller cowling. Unexpectedly, the system was fitted only with a single 7.7 mm Type 92 machine gun in a trainable mount at rear. Other than that, the armament comprised of a single 1,764 lb torpedo or bomb load equivalent. The armament and bomb load remained unchanged, and this version remained in production until 1943.

B5N was well known in the Allies. B5N Kates played an important part of the attack on the US Navy positions at Pearl Harbor which ultimately led the United States to come forcefully into the war. About 144 or B5N Kates were used in that very attack. It can be held accountable for the sinking of several other Allied vessels in the Pacific which included the USS Hornet, USS Lexington and the USS Yorktown. More than 1,150 B5Ns were produced in the form of B5N1 and B5N2 variants. The BFN proved to be one of the best aircraft designed for torpedo bombing duty of the war.

Code: [Select]

http://www.almlf.com/get-1-2011-almlf_com_b6xe2jyv.jpg
stop fooling around with me dude. you say it never left the designing board.... well. could your very historic brian explain this????

Code: [Select]

http://www.almlf.com/get-1-2011-almlf_com_c22x912q.jpg
http://www.almlf.com/get-1-2011-almlf_com_ru5h8bu0.jpg(yay, i found out a way to link those.)
you know what is this? this is one of the most monsterous and smatest of creations! the germans appearently had a fredrich von frankestien in one of their castles. this is the first flying wing ever showed up on this world. swallow this down your face lol

[the warlord of the reich]

well. i had to seprate the posts (i had a limit of atleast 8000 letters each although my last calucation showed i have 30,964 letters in the entire post so dont make me do this hell again dude)

by the way. this prototypes are extreme secret stuff. so realize i had mostly models and prototypes to show you. germany's techenology was far superior.  much more powerfull. those prototypes NOT TO MENTION! were designed and excuted before WW2 that you should start respecting germany's power and never dare bring any of your jokes to their extreme hardcore. by the way. britian attacked franc. because germany attackd it. meaning britian was fearing bieng overshadowed by germany not helping poles whom their country fell in days. the british navy mass bombarded france and destroyed and killed sevrel french soldiers especielly that the french navy was killed by british cowards. face it. they proven themselfs through history to be cowards.

[will]

Were the germans behind on cryptography, electronics eg radar, nuclear weapons, heavy bombers and anything else?

[ultifd]

Well, maybe next time you should type your response on a word document or something   Or on a free-website...anything but here I guess. It's not about uh, double positng 4 times (although try not to do that), but rather it's kinda hard to read all of those words with the forum theme, at least for me.  
*Ends OT, continue on Warlord + Wyvern

[the warlord of the reich]

no. germans made inventions far advanced of their own time.  includinng guided rockets. powerfull aircraft. designs of amazement! amerika bombers, stealth bombers, jet bombers, torpedo bombers.

they had a large radar superiority. they added this advantage to their aircraft. creating aircraft with advanced radar systems in them while allies are bragging they ran away from dunkirk. the germans are makig their creations..... including the "haunebu i" i weapon of secrecy.

[Gabbe]

Well i think he might post as much as he pleases as long as it has content..

[wyvern]

Warlord, while you are obviously not gonna change your opinion, realize that history and facts show that in all but submarine technology of which some can actually be contributed to Holland, tank sighting equipment and possibly aerodynamics, the allies were ahead of germany.
Among allied advancements was first radar equipped nightfighters, making radar into a small cone instead of an array of antennas that drastically cut down aircraft flight stats and several other improvements. The allies also invented a cheap, silly, but extremely efficient way of blocking german radar by using the "Window" device of aluminum strips and they used air to ground radar to increase bombing and search accuracy. The also invented the extremely effective system of depth charge launch called the "Hedgehog" various types of sonar and message decryption and homing torpedoes. They obviously invented the atom bomb and stayed ahead in all surface ship technology. The allies used gyrostabilization on their tanks, and the russians undoubtedly advanced the most in sloped and shot deflecting armor, starting with the t-34 and reaching its pinnacle with the IS-3. The allies had better parachutes for paratroops which allowed them to drop with their weapons and not just with a knife and pistol. Allies had better ground control of aircraft and far superior air to ground and ground to ground rockets. both sides experimented with surface to air unguided missiles but their effect was dubious. They also introduced the first proper infantry AT weapons other then AT rifles.

German advancements in tanks was zimmerit, which they discontinued, and better optic equipment. their cannons were excellent as was their ammunition, along with british cannons. Aerially they introduced the swept back wing and the first jet bomber. they were also the only nation to operationally use guided rockets, though the allies did possess the technology.

[the warlord of the reich]

by the way atom bombs dont belong to techenology. either most bombs (except for bouncers, dam breakers and others) whilst atom bombs are a mix of (sorry but im gonna spell this arabian english way becase i dont have the translation thing) the tharat when they some sort of seperate it unleashes big time power. dident take a long research either. aswell. i think germany had a better techenology. panzer kampfwagen X and IX and haubenu (you really cant imagine such an alien impossible to be legend to find out it was a weapon invented out in 1943) and jets. jet bombers. first computer. radar aircraft. ejection seats,  guided rockets. air to air rockets. wierdest shapes of recon cars.... ground to ground guided radar rockets. designs of a craft to go to the space to bring aerial spying for the army. a space jet bomber, a giant tank. can kill a IS 3 by riding over it. jet figteers where they killed 25 mosquitos and 2 twin engined bombers in a single pilot at night. rocket based aircraft. designs for a back bag to wear it an infantry that he can fly using it (this is true) and including more secrets perhaps we know very little of the german creations for now....  we could missed alot more researc and designs and creations of amazement we never seen or destroyed by the germans themselfs. you were sometime ago purposing a marriage to aircraft speed. now you say the jet fighter's speed is nothing matters.

well. lets imagine: your in a tempst (you claim it killed alot of ME262s while its historical record was 20) your flying the tempst. long range and what you say high manueverbality. you see a german jet ME262 you bring it to fight. you try to chase the enemy but you get a chance in a lifetime and put a single bullethole in it after shooting alot of ammo at it. its in your back now. you turn around to engage. the enemy ran in speed and far from your range. it shows up on your left flys by you. and you try to turn but thats it. it ended. the enemy's got your tail now. (" german jet pilots gets himself a piece of bread and jam and drinks some tea whilst activiting the air to air rocket and over kills enemy tempst")

[wyvern]

The atom bomb was an innovation and the space travel tech was impossible until ten-twenty years later considering the times technology and nazi scientists developing the atom bomb didn't even have protection against the radioactivity. the panzer IX, X and haubenu were only paper projects and while looking cool were impossible to build and easy targets for air strikes. The german air to air rockets were of dubious value and probably cot germany more then the damage they inflicted. germans were the only ones to use not the only ones to develop guided rockets, the americans invented the first computer in 1942 the germans did invent ejection seats but radar aircraft is nonsensical, the british had the first of those, and space travel would have gotten nowhere and probably killed its crew if built, they were the only ones to use rocket fighters though not the only ones to develop them, their super tanks were never built, slow, not so greatly armored and a beautiful, huge easy target for airstrikes. I have never heard of the jet fighter that shot so much down in a single night and the only night fighting jet fighter, a modified me 262 barely succeeded if at all. The back pack concept, , I have seen that, though I do believe it wouldn't work, the americans invented some sort of helicopter flying backpack for soldiers as well and it worked. Problem is most of these crazy concepts would have never worked and never got off paper, stuff like flying wing were already being tested pre war, and the germans destroyed a lot of stuff no one would have used anyway, the russians recreated the amazing "Maus' tank, yet despite its alleged awsomness all tanks are developed from the IS-3. Speed is critical, true, and it did allow german pilots to escape many situations but the problem is that you attack a tempest, he breaks off and you overshoot, he gets you in his gunsight takes out your engine and *BOOM*. there were more me262's destroyed then the losses they caused, those are the facts

[the warlord of the reich]

dude. ME262s claimed 509 kills in the historical record. an ace scored 25 mosquito kills in night and tow twin engined bombers. if the monster tank was built (something with a seldom chance of success) would've destroyed and whipped out evreything including navy. it would break thru maginot line by riding over it. airforce is no doubtly dead because an enurmous number of flak guns is mounted on it. by the way. haunebu was built. 3 model prototypes built. one crashed in tests. panzerkampfwagen series is something reached big techenology. such big giant weaponry of those guns were big time techenology stuff (pzkmpfwgn X was designed like a modern tank pretty true. was said to have designs and planning of modern tanks) ratte was a beast. to ground. a single ratte is at the worth of 5 pershings. it is one of rattes capebilities to kill 5 of them at once. though only 3 were built. one stolen by russia. others dissapeared. alot of historicans dubbed ME109 WW2 one of the best PROP interceptors. wow looks like your relationship with air speed died. dude. you'd have chance of a lifetime to kill one. historical record of tempst was 20 jet kills no more no less. you'd be the luckiest dude on earth to keep a ME262 on your gun range for five seconds. as you said. speed is big time matter. red baron of WW 1 was manfred richtfon was bestest WW1 ace with more then 80+ victories. you claim torpedos were modern made by british. whilst bieng dating back to american civil war. heinrich hertz invented radar he was a german scientist dude.


big time cool creations of germany:

Code: [Select]

[URL=http://www.almlf.com][IMG]http://www.almlf.com/get-1-2011-almlf_com_vy26mv6n.gif[/img][/URL]
[URL=http://www.almlf.com][IMG]http://www.almlf.com/get-1-2011-almlf_com_frjsh9o2.png[/img][/URL] well i dont suppose you knew that monster tank is at this size.

Code: [Select]

[URL=http://www.almlf.com][IMG]http://www.almlf.com/get-1-2011-almlf_com_f45pjcnv.jpg[/img][/URL] panzerkampfwagen X designing. perhaps pzkmpfwgn IX's but im more sure it is pzrkmpfwgn X's

Code: [Select]

[URL=http://www.almlf.com][IMG]http://www.almlf.com/get-1-2011-almlf_com_vtvoop49.jpg[/img][/URL] here you go the fantastic recon car. rarely detected. only few built.

Code: [Select]

[URL=http://www.almlf.com][IMG]http://www.almlf.com/get-1-2011-almlf_com_gblb7ao4.jpg[/img][/URL] underwater-surface recon car. can stay underwater. this what give the germans such a great radar-recon capacity.

[Mr War]

what's a radar-recon capability?

[wyvern]

dude. ME262s claimed 509 kills in the historical record. an ace scored 25 mosquito kills in night and tow twin engined bombers. if the monster tank was built (something with a seldom chance of success) would've destroyed and whipped out evreything including navy. it would break thru maginot line by riding over it. airforce is no doubtly dead because an enurmous number of flak guns is mounted on it. by the way. haunebu was built. 3 model prototypes built. one crashed in tests. panzerkampfwagen series is something reached big techenology. such big giant weaponry of those guns were big time techenology stuff (pzkmpfwgn X was designed like a modern tank pretty true. was said to have designs and planning of modern tanks) ratte was a beast. to ground. a single ratte is at the worth of 5 pershings. it is one of rattes capebilities to kill 5 of them at once. though only 3 were built. one stolen by russia. others dissapeared. alot of historicans dubbed ME109 WW2 one of the best PROP interceptors. wow looks like your relationship with air speed died. dude. you'd have chance of a lifetime to kill one. historical record of tempst was 20 jet kills no more no less. you'd be the luckiest dude on earth to keep a ME262 on your gun range for five seconds. as you said. speed is big time matter. red baron of WW 1 was manfred richtfon was bestest WW1 ace with more then 80+ victories. you claim torpedos were modern made by british. whilst bieng dating back to american civil war. heinrich hertz invented radar he was a german scientist dude.


big time cool creations of germany:

Code: [Select]

[URL=http://www.almlf.com][IMG]http://www.almlf.com/get-1-2011-almlf_com_vy26mv6n.gif[/img][/URL]
[URL=http://www.almlf.com][IMG]http://www.almlf.com/get-1-2011-almlf_com_frjsh9o2.png[/img][/URL] well i dont suppose you knew that monster tank is at this size.

Code: [Select]

[URL=http://www.almlf.com][IMG]http://www.almlf.com/get-1-2011-almlf_com_f45pjcnv.jpg[/img][/URL] panzerkampfwagen X designing. perhaps pzkmpfwgn IX's but im more sure it is pzrkmpfwgn X's

Code: [Select]

[URL=http://www.almlf.com][IMG]http://www.almlf.com/get-1-2011-almlf_com_vtvoop49.jpg[/img][/URL] here you go the fantastic recon car. rarely detected. only few built.

Code: [Select]

[URL=http://www.almlf.com][IMG]http://www.almlf.com/get-1-2011-almlf_com_gblb7ao4.jpg[/img][/URL] underwater-surface recon car. can stay underwater. this what give the germans such a great radar-recon capacity.

It may have scored 509 kills but it sure didn't score 27 kills in one night, give me a link, or any sort of proof, link, book anything, the record number of aerial kills in 24 hours is marseilles 15-17 in the north african war.

The ratte was never built and even if it had been the airforce would have obliterated it, those flak guns were completely inadequate to cover against an air attack of anything more then one or two planes, the me109 was one of, not the best prop fighter of all time, that honor is usually given to one of the following five, the p-51, the spitfire, the fury, or the bearcat or corsair. Richtofen had a high amount of kills but many allied aces were extremely close, not to mention that I said nothing about the brits inventing torpedos, the germans may have invented radar but they weren't the first to place it on aircraft, not to mention that credit for radar is not given to hertz he only showed it could work but he didn't build it. The ratte, p-1000 and panzer IX/X were never built and none are as modern as the IS-3 and wouldn't have been particularly effective. That recon car is a mine busting vehicle, not a recon car, and the last thing is an underwater transport meant for the invasion of england but very few were built.

[Hagekura]

  I have been watched you two kids are arguing about WWII weaponry interestingly,but I think it's high time to someone judge and finish this endless sequence - Warlord says nonsenses → Wyvern reply it(with praise for greatness of allies) → then again Warlord says nonsenses → Wyvern reply it(with praise for greatness of allies) -.
coz I want to hear some "real" historical debates,not flaunting of knowledge about WWII weaponry.

Warlord,I personally think nice of you admire japanese army so highly,but most of stuffs you have posted are terribly wrong.if your whole story was true,nazi-germany and Imperial japanese army shook hands in the middle of rocky mountains(like in the P.K.Dick's novel"The man in the high castle") .

Wyvern,you have generally right recognition about WWII weaponry,but you tend to underestimate nazi-germany army.you must admit that some of today's US army's weapons are heritage of nazi-germany's.such like guided missiles,smart bombs,B2 bomber,SRBMs,IRBMs,ICBMs.also without nazi's Rocket science techonlogies,I think us couldn't send human on the moon in 1960s.

[wyvern]

I have been watched you two kids are arguing about WWII weaponry interestingly,but I think it's high time to someone judge and finish this endless sequence - Warlord says nonsenses → Wyvern reply it(with praise for greatness of allies) → then again Warlord says nonsenses → Wyvern reply it(with praise for greatness of allies) -.
coz I want to hear some "real" historical debates,not flaunting of knowledge about WWII weaponry.

Warlord,I personally think nice of you admire japanese army so highly,but most of stuffs you have posted are terribly wrong.if your whole story was true,nazi-germany and Imperial japanese army shook hands in the middle of rocky mountains(like in the P.K.Dick's novel"The man in the high castle") .

Wyvern,you have generally right recognition about WWII weaponry,but you tend to underestimate nazi-germany army.you must admit that some of today's US army's weapons are heritage of nazi-germany's.such like guided missiles,smart bombs,B2 bomber,SRBMs,IRBMs,ICBMs.also without nazi's Rocket science techonlogies,I think us couldn't send human on the moon in 1960s.

Thanks, and I did admit that the germans invented many weapons though looking back i see I was very pro ally in my posts, I think the V-2 was the predecessor of all ICBM's and werner von braun, one of its main designers, was an important figure in the US space program.

[the warlord of the reich]

i trust words of historicans who talked to real WW2 people not your words dude. especielly after saying jets suck. saying also the wing is paper work. dude. they had a big time mountain crowned by a big time castle insides it a big time brian freak invented or atleast designed big time inventions of wierdest and strongest and most.. hideous of masterfull mighties of creations! including the mighty krupp raumer. a small millitry jeep would pass under it.

Code: [Select]

[URL=http://www.almlf.com][IMG]http://www.almlf.com/get-1-2011-almlf_com_afpesk7y.jpg[/img][/URL]
[URL=http://www.almlf.com][IMG]http://www.almlf.com/get-1-2011-almlf_com_bis6gjvx.jpg[/img][/URL]
[URL=http://www.almlf.com][IMG]http://www.almlf.com/get-1-2011-almlf_com_oaf9i082.jpg[/img][/URL]
[URL=http://www.almlf.com][IMG]http://www.almlf.com/get-1-2011-almlf_com_xidsp68n.jpg[/img][/URL]
[URL=http://www.almlf.com][IMG]http://www.almlf.com/get-1-2011-almlf_com_8l9wlfat.jpg[/img][/URL]
[URL=http://www.almlf.com][IMG]http://www.almlf.com/get-1-2011-almlf_com_72env9om.jpg[/img][/URL]
[URL=http://www.almlf.com][IMG]http://www.almlf.com/get-1-2011-almlf_com_usr4msa0.jpg[/img][/URL]
[URL=http://www.almlf.com][IMG]http://www.almlf.com/get-1-2011-almlf_com_94y0rrav.jpg[/img][/URL]
another strange cool creations from the advanced german industry

Code: [Select]

[URL=http://www.almlf.com][IMG]http://www.almlf.com/get-1-2011-almlf_com_g2ogjmi5.jpg[/img][/URL]The Kugelpanzer literally translates as "Ball Tank" and is one of the rarest and strangest armoured fighting vehicles ever built.

Only one lone example of this Reconnaissance Rollzeug (Rolling Vehicle) has been captured by the Russians and it survives today as part of the Kubinka Museum's collection of German armored vehicles. The Kugelpanzer is simply listed as Item #37 and is painted gloss gray. From fragmentary information, the drive has been removed from the vehicle and no metal samples are allowed to be taken from it. The history of the vehicle is literally unknown, as no documents were found with it and no clear markings. Only five firm facts available:

1.It was a German-made vehicle shipped to Japan
2.It was a light Reconnaissance vehicle
3.It was captured by the Soviets in 1945 (probably in Manchuria)
4.Its hull armor was only 5 mm thick
5.It was powered by a single cylinder two-stroke engine
It is hard to speculate on how this machine functioned but from observation it appears to be a one man reconnaissance tank with an armored shell and viewport. Perhaps under or behind the operator an engine was mounted and for stability a small directional wheel was located at the rear to steer the two large circular tracks at the sides.

Background
One of the more intriguing finds at the end of WW II was this enormous four-wheeled vehicle made by Krupp.

Listed as a Räumer S, it is still debated as to what exactly was this thing supposed to do. Was it a heavy prime mover, a mine clearing vehicle or somebody's nightmare turned into metal? The tall ground clearance and heavily armored cabin leads me to believe it was a mine clearer. The double-ended feature allowed it to drive back through a minefield without having to turn around. 180º in zero feet!

What I thought was weird was the highly exposed hinge mechanism under the middle of the vehicle. Surely any exploding mine would damage the hydraulics and jam the hinge pins with dirt and shrapnel. I’d like to see one of those girlie Monster Trucks try and take on this beast!



by the way. ace franz scell shoot down 10 P-51 mustangs and 6 four engined bombers using a single ME262 and shot down 61 shturmvoiks in the eastern front. ace pilot Kurt Welter (25 February 1916 – 7 March 1949) was a German Luftwaffe fighter ace and the most successful Jet Expert of World War II. A flying ace or fighter ace is a military aviator credited with shooting down five or more enemy aircraft during aerial combat. He claimed a total of 63 victories achieved in only 93 combat missions. He recorded 56 victories at night, including 33 Mosquitos, and scored more aerial victories from a jet fighter aircraft than anyone else in World War II and potentially in aviation history. On 11 March 1945 he was awarded the Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross with Oak Leaves (Ritterkreuz des Eisernen Kreuzes mit Eichenlaub) for 48 aerial victories using a ME 262. in world war 1, they had manfred von richtofon. dubbed ace of aces. Originally a cavalryman, Richthofen transferred to the Air Service in 1915, becoming one of the first members of Jasta 2 in 1916. He quickly distinguished himself as a fighter pilot, and during 1917 became leader of Jasta 11 and then the larger unit Jagdgeschwader 1 (better known as the "Flying Circus"). By 1918 he was regarded as a national hero in Germany, and was very well known by the other side.

Richthofen was shot down and killed near Amiens on 21 April 1918. There has been considerable discussion and debate regarding aspects of his career, especially the circumstances of his death. He remains very possibly the most widely known fighter pilot of all time, and has been the subject of many books and films


lets settle this down:

recon: germany wins. their puma and krupp raumer. and the ball tank. and flying wing. proved to be best recon ever have been! you know britian dident knew something called "land recon" before and through world war? nor their radars sucked. flying wing flu over britian undetected. its early warning system would give a warning if it gets detected.

naval superiority: germany wins it with bestest battleships. far beyoned their precedores and their forieng counterparts. britian wins with best carriers. IJN wins with awesomest fleet.

techenology: now we all know germany has best technology. theres no need to say more here and no need to argue about their technology they have best no doubt at all.

tank power: russia wins. losifstalin 3 was impressivly a massive creative war stuff! they only conducted in the very last days of war.... their T-34 were awesom pieces of work. good job! 2nd place germany takes. one of best light tanks. panzer 3. one of the very best of medium tanks. panzer 4 and panther. and tiger tanks. their guns proved worthy annihlation of all tanks. the germans realized their effectiveness is in groups more then 3 tigers at a group. annihlated hundreds of tanks once they did this. only airstrikes are the only choice. tiger tanks proved to be one of the most psychological effecting weapons of WW2. although as any heavy tank. tigers are heavily armored. though tigers horribly one a place in one of the slowest tanks to produce. germany provided materials of exotic trades and wares from all places to build a single tiger. tiger king won a place in strongest heavy tank. with hell of armor and gun. though slow.... was slow like any heavy tank yet it was 1 mile per hour slower then regular tiger. churchills proved slower. by the way. panther tanks were awarded best of WW2 was a tank crew's dream..... the tank was a modern far advanced and superior inclined armor. the sloped armor was in PZ 3 but however. panthers won king of all medium tanks. include the T-34 to that. could outmatch hevy tanks. the power of 2 panthers are equel of a single IS 2 meaning those panthers are worthy medium tanks have some reall chances of facing with late war heavy tanks toe-to-toe. great speed for medium tank. abillity to cross very hard terriens. 3rd place wins british. though they are far weaker then germany they're the only ones avilable to ake the place. british tannks were merley nuisance. their medium tanks had barellly armor. except for churchills.  churchils proved to be powerfull tanks. they've a very tich armor. though churchill has a big drawback: extrem slow speed. low quality gun,  requires alot of time and costly to build few.  though they also had great matildas. USA has better hvy tanks though came too late and only one showe up. meaning before WW2 USA had crap and junk in their tank arsenal. they designned their tanks once they went in the war. most of their outdated tanks served untill late midwar periods

air superiority: germans won it. although allies had awesom stuff too. but germans outranged them and also outnumbered them. germans had more cool planes while allies had fewer. IJN wins 2nd place. their lack of pilots made them lose but they made zeros for early war allied pawnage. later on tony fighters (a design could catch and outfight hellcats) also made best dive bombers with a sinking record. their dive bombers turned with allied fighters and were tremendously accurate. dauntless is the equel of val. said by evrey single historican and evrey dude who went pacific. helldivers sucked heavily.... poor stalling charcterstatic, poor speed, poor design, accurate hits are by luck, usually kills its pilots once diving from medium altitudes. even high altitudes you could die. while vals had 4 of evrey 5 hits count. also they're fast and agile. 3rd place earns it british. exellent anti-ground. great airpower. bombers. though theres some WW1 relics in their pilot ranks.... they dident have jets either but they did cool stuff earlier. 4th place USA for late yet effective fighter P-51 mustang and awesom bombers.

i replied crap? well. he says your country sux. you agree. that sux. anyways. i wasnt the one who was saying crap. i dident say the flying wing was a paper joke. i dident say guided rockets dident exist (it was called "wolf packs" due to their tremendous damage done by few ME262s on all kind of strategic bombing raids especielly at daylight wher the allies completley withdrawn an offensive after seeieng how those rockets went n their BE-17s. a single rocket is strong enough to downa B-17) they did. said red baron was joke.... he was bestest pilot of the entire world war 1 claimed 80+ victories was also knowen as "flying circus" and i dont think you red my 30 thousand words proof of luftwaffe and axis superiority. spitfire wont be called great interceptors due to a bigtime lack of armor led to them would be easily killed by any method of guns firing at it. U-boats were a single advance of techenology far outranged techenology of all allied power. it inspired nuclear submarines. not to mention the most successfull U boat claimed 51 ships sunk (306,874 tons) 3 ships damaged (20,480 tons) and depth charge isnt effective once theres more then 3 submarines due to hit and seperate and trap tactics.

i'd like a nice explaination why you dident knew those flying wings dident exist?

i checked my mine sweeper.
your correct. its a mine sweeper though often mistake between another patrol car krupp raumer. and wargel. this is a nice mine sweeper instead of some kid carrying a big iron broomstick and checcking out the ground.

[the warlord of the reich]

i was afraid of a screw failure so i seperate my posts in order to avoid post failure.

you guys hear of walking machines? like in starwars. big robot. lazers and stuff. this whole legends and stories and shows of it. it all emerges from germany:

Code: [Select]

[URL=http://www.almlf.com][IMG]http://www.almlf.com/get-1-2011-almlf_com_erqzhj8f.jpg[/img][/URL] Seen here a Waffenträgerschreitpanzer (Armored Walking Weapons Carrier) ‘Läufer’ (literally, "runner"), a highly mobile self-propelled field artillery piece. It mounted a short-barreled 75mm cannon in the main body, a MG 34 ring-mount around the main hatch (used for anti-aircraft defense), and a pair of 20mm cannon under a right side "wing" plate. This particular Läufer is seen taking on fuel, ammunition, and oil in an Eastern Front forest. The Läufer favored this sort of terrain, as it tended to be too thick for most tanks and allowed for secure firing positions.

The  Läufer was popular among the infantry, who liked having close-in artillery support capable of traversing almost any terrain. The Läufer was a bipedal armored combat machine, designed to accompany infantry, snipe at enemy armor, and generally serve as an all-terrain self-propelled gun.

The  Läufer had a squat blocky body mounted on two short legs. The howitzer was set to the right of the pilot, with the twin 20 mm cannon mounted to a fixed wing on the far right of the vehicle. The primary access hatch was behind the howitzer, while the vehicle's engine was directly behind the driver's compartment. It was roughly 12' tall, 10' long, and 8' wide. It weighed 20 tons, had a top speed of 26 miles per hour, and a crew of three (driver, gunner, loader).

The Läufer was used on both fronts, and was especially popular in the thick forests of Russia and the broken farmlands of France. Although not especially well armored, its size and shape made the vehicle easy to hide, and the Allies often found them tucked into barns, factories, deep ditches, thick stands of trees, and the like. As the howitzer was of limited use against enemy armor, the Läufer was usually used to shell troops in the open or soft vehicle targets -- such as jeeps and trucks. The 20 mm cannon was often used to help spot targets for the howitzer, and tracer rounds were a common load. The MG 34, on the other hand, was meant for close defense and as an antiaircraft weapon.

[will]

You really should cite your sources:

Code: [Select]

[url=http://surbrook.devermore.net/superpics/machines/runner.html]http://surbrook.devermore.net/superpics/machines/runner.html[/url]
I rather prefer the ÃœBERSCHWERER KAMPFSCHREITPANZER from the same site

Code: [Select]

[url=http://surbrook.devermore.net/superpics/machines/mobilefortress.html]http://surbrook.devermore.net/superpics/machines/mobilefortress.html[/url]

Code: [Select]

[img]http://surbrook.devermore.net/superpics/machines/mobilefortress.jpg[/img]

[Hagekura]

i was afraid of a screw failure so i seperate my posts in order to avoid post failure.

you guys hear of walking machines? like in starwars. big robot. lazers and stuff. this whole legends and stories and shows of it. it all emerges from germany:

Code: [Select]

[URL=http://www.almlf.com][IMG]http://www.almlf.com/get-1-2011-almlf_com_erqzhj8f.jpg[/img][/URL] Seen here a Waffenträgerschreitpanzer (Armored Walking Weapons Carrier) ‘Läufer’ (literally, "runner"), a highly mobile self-propelled field artillery piece. It mounted a short-barreled 75mm cannon in the main body, a MG 34 ring-mount around the main hatch (used for anti-aircraft defense), and a pair of 20mm cannon under a right side "wing" plate. This particular Läufer is seen taking on fuel, ammunition, and oil in an Eastern Front forest. The Läufer favored this sort of terrain, as it tended to be too thick for most tanks and allowed for secure firing positions.

The  Läufer was popular among the infantry, who liked having close-in artillery support capable of traversing almost any terrain. The Läufer was a bipedal armored combat machine, designed to accompany infantry, snipe at enemy armor, and generally serve as an all-terrain self-propelled gun.

The  Läufer had a squat blocky body mounted on two short legs. The howitzer was set to the right of the pilot, with the twin 20 mm cannon mounted to a fixed wing on the far right of the vehicle. The primary access hatch was behind the howitzer, while the vehicle's engine was directly behind the driver's compartment. It was roughly 12' tall, 10' long, and 8' wide. It weighed 20 tons, had a top speed of 26 miles per hour, and a crew of three (driver, gunner, loader).

The Läufer was used on both fronts, and was especially popular in the thick forests of Russia and the broken farmlands of France. Although not especially well armored, its size and shape made the vehicle easy to hide, and the Allies often found them tucked into barns, factories, deep ditches, thick stands of trees, and the like. As the howitzer was of limited use against enemy armor, the Läufer was usually used to shell troops in the open or soft vehicle targets -- such as jeeps and trucks. The 20 mm cannon was often used to help spot targets for the howitzer, and tracer rounds were a common load. The MG 34, on the other hand, was meant for close defense and as an antiaircraft weapon.

I lmao when I saw the picture and your description.
Surely you have the nice sense of humor.

[the warlord of the reich]

yeah i know.  well i prefere the walking machine because i would like run around and aim the arm guns lol. you like real big stuff i like that you appreciate war stuff man i like that dinasour. pure awesom lol

you really should be more active around hagekura. well for fun i've been reading Manfred von Richthofen's writen book through his war experience. pretty intresting and fun if you wanna read a personel writing of a truelly great man. also he got some pretty fun things to say. well. i totally dident like what was said about better aces then the red baron. well. there isnt. atleast in world war 1. he was very dreamy about flying a fokker. or a fighter. he wasoriginally a trench soldier but transferred to air force. he messed up his first training day. by crash landing while practicing to land. he was brave too. he flyed an old design aircraft through a thunderstorm and survived it. he shot his first kill only 24 hours after his training. he was flying hvy bombers over russia before he goes into the front as blocke's pupil to master flying skills and becomes a legend. he was from a famous aristocrat family. he was a bigtime national hero. one of the most valuble and rarest and heavily guarded filmss in germany's storages is a film picturing manfred as a national hero.

[wyvern]

i trust words of historicans who talked to real WW2 people not your words dude. especielly after saying jets suck. saying also the wing is paper work. dude. they had a big time mountain crowned by a big time castle insides it a big time brian freak invented or atleast designed big time inventions of wierdest and strongest and most.. hideous of masterfull mighties of creations! including the mighty krupp raumer. a small millitry jeep would pass under it.

Code: [Select]

[URL=http://www.almlf.com][IMG]http://www.almlf.com/get-1-2011-almlf_com_afpesk7y.jpg[/img][/URL]
[URL=http://www.almlf.com][IMG]http://www.almlf.com/get-1-2011-almlf_com_bis6gjvx.jpg[/img][/URL]
[URL=http://www.almlf.com][IMG]http://www.almlf.com/get-1-2011-almlf_com_oaf9i082.jpg[/img][/URL]
[URL=http://www.almlf.com][IMG]http://www.almlf.com/get-1-2011-almlf_com_xidsp68n.jpg[/img][/URL]
[URL=http://www.almlf.com][IMG]http://www.almlf.com/get-1-2011-almlf_com_8l9wlfat.jpg[/img][/URL]
[URL=http://www.almlf.com][IMG]http://www.almlf.com/get-1-2011-almlf_com_72env9om.jpg[/img][/URL]
[URL=http://www.almlf.com][IMG]http://www.almlf.com/get-1-2011-almlf_com_usr4msa0.jpg[/img][/URL]
[URL=http://www.almlf.com][IMG]http://www.almlf.com/get-1-2011-almlf_com_94y0rrav.jpg[/img][/URL]
another strange cool creations from the advanced german industry

Code: [Select]

[URL=http://www.almlf.com][IMG]http://www.almlf.com/get-1-2011-almlf_com_g2ogjmi5.jpg[/img][/URL]The Kugelpanzer literally translates as "Ball Tank" and is one of the rarest and strangest armoured fighting vehicles ever built.

Only one lone example of this Reconnaissance Rollzeug (Rolling Vehicle) has been captured by the Russians and it survives today as part of the Kubinka Museum's collection of German armored vehicles. The Kugelpanzer is simply listed as Item #37 and is painted gloss gray. From fragmentary information, the drive has been removed from the vehicle and no metal samples are allowed to be taken from it. The history of the vehicle is literally unknown, as no documents were found with it and no clear markings. Only five firm facts available:

1.It was a German-made vehicle shipped to Japan
2.It was a light Reconnaissance vehicle
3.It was captured by the Soviets in 1945 (probably in Manchuria)
4.Its hull armor was only 5 mm thick
5.It was powered by a single cylinder two-stroke engine
It is hard to speculate on how this machine functioned but from observation it appears to be a one man reconnaissance tank with an armored shell and viewport. Perhaps under or behind the operator an engine was mounted and for stability a small directional wheel was located at the rear to steer the two large circular tracks at the sides.

Background
One of the more intriguing finds at the end of WW II was this enormous four-wheeled vehicle made by Krupp.

Listed as a Räumer S, it is still debated as to what exactly was this thing supposed to do. Was it a heavy prime mover, a mine clearing vehicle or somebody's nightmare turned into metal? The tall ground clearance and heavily armored cabin leads me to believe it was a mine clearer. The double-ended feature allowed it to drive back through a minefield without having to turn around. 180º in zero feet!

What I thought was weird was the highly exposed hinge mechanism under the middle of the vehicle. Surely any exploding mine would damage the hydraulics and jam the hinge pins with dirt and shrapnel. I’d like to see one of those girlie Monster Trucks try and take on this beast!



by the way. ace franz scell shoot down 10 P-51 mustangs and 6 four engined bombers using a single ME262 and shot down 61 shturmvoiks in the eastern front. ace pilot Kurt Welter (25 February 1916 – 7 March 1949) was a German Luftwaffe fighter ace and the most successful Jet Expert of World War II. A flying ace or fighter ace is a military aviator credited with shooting down five or more enemy aircraft during aerial combat. He claimed a total of 63 victories achieved in only 93 combat missions. He recorded 56 victories at night, including 33 Mosquitos, and scored more aerial victories from a jet fighter aircraft than anyone else in World War II and potentially in aviation history. On 11 March 1945 he was awarded the Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross with Oak Leaves (Ritterkreuz des Eisernen Kreuzes mit Eichenlaub) for 48 aerial victories using a ME 262. in world war 1, they had manfred von richtofon. dubbed ace of aces. Originally a cavalryman, Richthofen transferred to the Air Service in 1915, becoming one of the first members of Jasta 2 in 1916. He quickly distinguished himself as a fighter pilot, and during 1917 became leader of Jasta 11 and then the larger unit Jagdgeschwader 1 (better known as the "Flying Circus"). By 1918 he was regarded as a national hero in Germany, and was very well known by the other side.

Richthofen was shot down and killed near Amiens on 21 April 1918. There has been considerable discussion and debate regarding aspects of his career, especially the circumstances of his death. He remains very possibly the most widely known fighter pilot of all time, and has been the subject of many books and films


lets settle this down:

recon: germany wins. their puma and krupp raumer. and the ball tank. and flying wing. proved to be best recon ever have been! you know britian dident knew something called "land recon" before and through world war? nor their radars sucked. flying wing flu over britian undetected. its early warning system would give a warning if it gets detected.

naval superiority: germany wins it with bestest battleships. far beyoned their precedores and their forieng counterparts. britian wins with best carriers. IJN wins with awesomest fleet.

techenology: now we all know germany has best technology. theres no need to say more here and no need to argue about their technology they have best no doubt at all.

tank power: russia wins. losifstalin 3 was impressivly a massive creative war stuff! they only conducted in the very last days of war.... their T-34 were awesom pieces of work. good job! 2nd place germany takes. one of best light tanks. panzer 3. one of the very best of medium tanks. panzer 4 and panther. and tiger tanks. their guns proved worthy annihlation of all tanks. the germans realized their effectiveness is in groups more then 3 tigers at a group. annihlated hundreds of tanks once they did this. only airstrikes are the only choice. tiger tanks proved to be one of the most psychological effecting weapons of WW2. although as any heavy tank. tigers are heavily armored. though tigers horribly one a place in one of the slowest tanks to produce. germany provided materials of exotic trades and wares from all places to build a single tiger. tiger king won a place in strongest heavy tank. with hell of armor and gun. though slow.... was slow like any heavy tank yet it was 1 mile per hour slower then regular tiger. churchills proved slower. by the way. panther tanks were awarded best of WW2 was a tank crew's dream..... the tank was a modern far advanced and superior inclined armor. the sloped armor was in PZ 3 but however. panthers won king of all medium tanks. include the T-34 to that. could outmatch hevy tanks. the power of 2 panthers are equel of a single IS 2 meaning those panthers are worthy medium tanks have some reall chances of facing with late war heavy tanks toe-to-toe. great speed for medium tank. abillity to cross very hard terriens. 3rd place wins british. though they are far weaker then germany they're the only ones avilable to ake the place. british tannks were merley nuisance. their medium tanks had barellly armor. except for churchills.  churchils proved to be powerfull tanks. they've a very tich armor. though churchill has a big drawback: extrem slow speed. low quality gun,  requires alot of time and costly to build few.  though they also had great matildas. USA has better hvy tanks though came too late and only one showe up. meaning before WW2 USA had crap and junk in their tank arsenal. they designned their tanks once they went in the war. most of their outdated tanks served untill late midwar periods

air superiority: germans won it. although allies had awesom stuff too. but germans outranged them and also outnumbered them. germans had more cool planes while allies had fewer. IJN wins 2nd place. their lack of pilots made them lose but they made zeros for early war allied pawnage. later on tony fighters (a design could catch and outfight hellcats) also made best dive bombers with a sinking record. their dive bombers turned with allied fighters and were tremendously accurate. dauntless is the equel of val. said by evrey single historican and evrey dude who went pacific. helldivers sucked heavily.... poor stalling charcterstatic, poor speed, poor design, accurate hits are by luck, usually kills its pilots once diving from medium altitudes. even high altitudes you could die. while vals had 4 of evrey 5 hits count. also they're fast and agile. 3rd place earns it british. exellent anti-ground. great airpower. bombers. though theres some WW1 relics in their pilot ranks.... they dident have jets either but they did cool stuff earlier. 4th place USA for late yet effective fighter P-51 mustang and awesom bombers.

i replied crap? well. he says your country sux. you agree. that sux. anyways. i wasnt the one who was saying crap. i dident say the flying wing was a paper joke. i dident say guided rockets dident exist (it was called "wolf packs" due to their tremendous damage done by few ME262s on all kind of strategic bombing raids especielly at daylight wher the allies completley withdrawn an offensive after seeieng how those rockets went n their BE-17s. a single rocket is strong enough to downa B-17) they did. said red baron was joke.... he was bestest pilot of the entire world war 1 claimed 80+ victories was also knowen as "flying circus" and i dont think you red my 30 thousand words proof of luftwaffe and axis superiority. spitfire wont be called great interceptors due to a bigtime lack of armor led to them would be easily killed by any method of guns firing at it. U-boats were a single advance of techenology far outranged techenology of all allied power. it inspired nuclear submarines. not to mention the most successfull U boat claimed 51 ships sunk (306,874 tons) 3 ships damaged (20,480 tons) and depth charge isnt effective once theres more then 3 submarines due to hit and seperate and trap tactics.

i'd like a nice explaination why you dident knew those flying wings dident exist?

i checked my mine sweeper.
your correct. its a mine sweeper though often mistake between another patrol car krupp raumer. and wargel. this is a nice mine sweeper instead of some kid carrying a big iron broomstick and checcking out the ground.

First off that walking machine is a nice joke, especially considering how well whoever made it up describes it as if it was a real vehicle.
The other stuff includes a flying boat and recon plane, neither of which were shining stars though without a doubt amongst the coolest looking planes of all time
the one thing looks like a recovery vehicle and the ball thing is cool but quite impractical, the other stuff I have never seen and appear to be paper projects turned into models by fans of german technology. except for the raumer-s that is, and about the joint, I don't think it would have been to vulnerable for several reasons, one, its pretty high up and two, any explosion by a mine is likely to be caused by the front or rear wheels.
Recon should go to britain, they had the amazing AEC and daimler series of armored cars, more then a match for the puma, the ball tank only had 5 mm, thats not enough to stop a rifle, not to mention that it never served and neither did the flying wing, the raumer wasn't a recon vehicle either, get your facts straightened out.

In navy, britain has best carriers, germany best submarines, USA best all around and great battleships. Japan gets and award for huge and unique ships, have you ever seen the hybrid battleship carriers, I think they were the Ise and Hyuga.

In tanks I'll generally agree with you though I wouldn't call the panther a medium tank, considering it outweighed the IS-2.

In air, I strongly disagree, best aircraft is britain and USA not to mention that all of their main aircraft had armor, the germans get second though I'll agree on better, not safer jets, and sorry but japanese planes never were good enough to regain superiority after 1942.

I have a propostion, we'll both stop arguing and make this into a topic that we can use to display various pieces of equipment and tech, not just WW2 related either, whether depicting battles, ships planes or tanks we could post stuff about things from the egyptians to recent times, don't you agree.

[the warlord of the reich]

well. lets see here.... FW190 wasa design of awesomness. evreything the allies had includin thunderbolts fell to it and it was favoured by most german aces. not to mention. tremendouslly powerfull anti-ground attackerit could be equipped with lots of rockets. bombers die to rockets easy... even so. without rockets you'd kill a B-17 using ME109 using the best tactics against allied bombers... diving towards them. a single run by. will result fatal damage due to the push speed and bombers main weakness from above. a B-17 would perhaps die in single dive. though zerstorers proved to be a hungry bomber hunter. more later awesom bomber hunters showed up. by the way. that 509-100 kill ratio could turn to 1000-100 ratio if the ME262 were manned by actual fighter pilots instead of bomber pilots. by the way. you wouldnt. but it was faster then IS 2 and also titled medium tank by all belligrants and historicans. thanks    i liked it too. its just a joke about a site based on "what would happen if theres superheros in world war 2?" by the way. im very intrested to know alot about this sneaky secret awesom "vrill" society thing.

yeah but sorry were still going on this one how could we stop?

by the way i dident said raumer was recon i did straightened out my facts later on. IJN would've compleley turned the outcome of war if it had good avaitors. and not outnumbred 10-1. and thhose were reall stuff. inccludin the wing which was first tested in 1930s and conducted operations near british shore without detection. they were recon prirposed operations. germans had best battleships including bismarck. fought outnumered. like a beast rattled and overwhelmed by thousands of its enemies. AEC was nothing to puma. puma had the abillity to:
1. face off with late advanced med and light tanks and even early war hvy tanks
2. can be both used as an actuall main battle tank and recon
3. far more superior recon qualities then its foriegn counterparts.
4. very fast. well armored to engage and take hits from other tanks
5. one puma is worth 4 AEC (in battle value) but in general. 1 puma is worth 7 AEC though also in production cost.... pumas are sadly very exspensive yet are totally worth the price. AEC was like most armored recons. unable to engage tanks. its capebilitis are limited to face other armored recons.

[Hagekura]

  You bonehead  Warlord,would you please stop posting damn millions bytes of long sentence in english?  English is DEFINITELY not my xxxxing home language,  reading your xxxxing long stuffs causes me goddamn headaches. could you do me a favor?

[wyvern]

well. lets see here.... FW190 wasa design of awesomness. evreything the allies had includin thunderbolts fell to it and it was favoured by most german aces. not to mention. tremendouslly powerfull anti-ground attackerit could be equipped with lots of rockets. bombers die to rockets easy... even so. without rockets you'd kill a B-17 using ME109 using the best tactics against allied bombers... diving towards them. a single run by. will result fatal damage due to the push speed and bombers main weakness from above. a B-17 would perhaps die in single dive. though zerstorers proved to be a hungry bomber hunter. more later awesom bomber hunters showed up. by the way. that 509-100 kill ratio could turn to 1000-100 ratio if the ME262 were manned by actual fighter pilots instead of bomber pilots. by the way. you wouldnt. but it was faster then IS 2 and also titled medium tank by all belligrants and historicans. thanks    i liked it too. its just a joke about a site based on "what would happen if theres superheros in world war 2?" by the way. im very intrested to know alot about this sneaky secret awesom "vrill" society thing.

yeah but sorry were still going on this one how could we stop?

by the way i dident said raumer was recon i did straightened out my facts later on. IJN would've compleley turned the outcome of war if it had good avaitors. and not outnumbred 10-1. and thhose were reall stuff. inccludin the wing which was first tested in 1930s and conducted operations near british shore without detection. they were recon prirposed operations. germans had best battleships including bismarck. fought outnumered. like a beast rattled and overwhelmed by thousands of its enemies. AEC was nothing to puma. puma had the abillity to:
1. face off with late advanced med and light tanks and even early war hvy tanks
2. can be both used as an actuall main battle tank and recon
3. far more superior recon qualities then its foriegn counterparts.
4. very fast. well armored to engage and take hits from other tanks
5. one puma is worth 4 AEC (in battle value) but in general. 1 puma is worth 7 AEC though also in production cost.... pumas are sadly very exspensive yet are totally worth the price. AEC was like most armored recons. unable to engage tanks. its capebilitis are limited to face other armored recons.

About armored cars, the AEC II and III have a 6lb and 75mm gun respectively and both have superior armor to a puma which has somewhere around 30mm frontal armor and less all around, its cannon its worse then the AECII and IIIs and neither the AEC nor the puma can stand up to a tank though both are wicked fast the puma and AEC both have a chance to disable a medium tank but with its better gun the AECII and III can do it frontally.

By the way there were nearly 1400 me262's built of which most were destroyed in aerial combat which suggests that your 509-100 statistics are grossly untrue.

but lets stop arguing and post informative facts for the benefit of the forum instead of are own egos, after all, if someone is looking to make a historical mod on WW2 they could find a boatload of facts but if we didn't keep bickering it would be more useful info.

[the warlord of the reich]

You bonehead  Warlord,would you please stop posting damn millions bytes of long sentence in english?  English is DEFINITELY not my xxxxing home language,  reading your xxxxing long stuffs causes me goddamn headaches. could you do me a favor?

its difenatly not my xxxxing either. dont read my posts then. meybe next time psting arabic langage would help the headache?

dude. only about 300-500 of those saw combat. 120 turned trainers. the rest of the majority were grounded due to the huge petrol shortages. the 100-509 kill ratio could've turned 100-1000 ratio if the ME262 were flown by actual fighter pilots instead of bomber pilots.

puma was much better. AEC showed up very late. has a diesel engine which would quickly go fire. got only a QF 2 pounder gun. later. a 75 MM which has got already obselent. puma had an autocannon which proved exellent for ground attack. puma was quite fast. faster then AEC and a 15mm armor. more later pumas were much more powerfull.

i told you most siezed by russia. land divisions capture them or destroyed the grounded.  were not going on our egos and posting stupid facts were posting truths. this conversation was more helpful to me then you thinnk. i learnt alot of history. got very deep within. we are still ongoing this conversation. this is a great conversation and fun. as i posted first saying this is a conversation topic. we can open a new historic topic where only displays and facts are posted instead of conversations. 

[wyvern]

They had to have lost more then a hundred since the USAF shot over a hundred down in a mere 4 engagements, for smaller losses of their own. I saw something about that nightfighter ace killing 25 mosquitos, he actually claimed these kills over a wide period of time, not to mention that they weren't neccesarily confirmed, and the greatest ace of all time is Hartmann with all his kills nearly exclusively against soviet forces. Also, how many me262's got into service is unknown.

A comparison of AEC II-III versus puma shows the AEC is the obvious winner
armor Puma has 30mm front and 15mm side. Aec has up to 65 or 57mm front and 30mm around
Speed Puma is faster at 85 versus 65 kmph
weapons puma 50mm L60, AEC II 6lb, AEC III 75mm
the 6lb is definitely better then the pumas 50mm while having a roughly equal rate of fire while the 75mm is slightly better or equal to the pumas 50mm. their only automatic weapons for both were machine guns/ verdict, AEC is better as a combat vehicle.