Author Topic: Another massive list  (Read 1486 times)

claymore

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Another massive list
« on: 2 January 2011, 22:45:55 »
Another massive todo list. Roughly in order of priority (well, in my opinion) and ease of implementation. I'll attempt some of these...

Implement positional sound (sound panning based on camera position relative to sound source).
Allow selecting units by cell rather than checking for intersecting unit boundaries.
When a unit kills another, it shouldn't then move into the cell that unit was occupying. This is rarely desirable and causes a lot of damage to your own melee units when ranged attackers' projectiles continue to bombard the spot.
Corpses should sink into the ground and disappear after a while. Building remains should become increasingly transparent and disappear.
Save games/replays.
Make Ghost Armor, Guard and Anubis Warrior a bit cheaper, or a bit tougher.
Make Behemoth much stronger and worth producing (it requires an expensive upgrade, a dedicated building for each unit produced, and it doesn't even have an air attack).
Allow setting default attacks for units with multiple attacks. Battle Machine should probably use its arrow by default.
Display unit names, upgrade names, unit traits and any other important information in bold.
Raise the volume of walk sounds of Battle Machines and Airships (they do have one believe it or not!)
Disable faction previews by default.
Set fog of war to "explored" and enable observers by default.
Shift faction preview (and option widgets) to the right slightly in game menu screen.
Prompt for nickname when running the game for the first time.
Double-click a building to select all buildings of that type.
Allow setting gather points for incomplete buildings.
Before a building's foundations are laid, place a transparent version of the completed building at the desired location. Enemies ignore this region, allies navigate around it.
Gray out units that can't be built due to insufficient resources, using a different shade or colour. When hovering the mouse over, indicate which resources are missing by using different colours for the unit cost.
Centre camera on selection by pressing corresponding control-group hotkey twice.
Sounds for selecting different buildings. (Japanese has a few.)
Blue movement/gather point arrow should have a minimum transparency cap, so it doesn't seem to disappear.
Experiment with sounds for *every* click command, rather than once every so many clicks. I don't think it would be so annoying, and it would make the game feel more responsive in a sense.
Units shouldn't gain experience from killing allied units (maybe this is already the case, haven't tested recently).
In chat, use better contrasting (lighter) colours. Remove extra leading space (" ").
Listboxes instead of spinners.
Sounds for errors. Display more messages in bottom left for events such as unit production, new idle workers, upgrades etc. Colour code them to distuinguish them from errors.
Allow commanding defensive structures to attack specific units.
Technicians should be able to place air ballista (and possibly catapult, battle machine) foundations like workers. They should move to the indicated area and only then start building.
Weaken snakes' attack slightly, make scarabs tougher.
Reduce Sphinx splash.
Switch snake and scarab beetle positions in temple to reflect the fact that snakes can be produced before scarabs.
Norse crossbow needs a death animation, Indian iron upgrade needs an icon, many upgrades need a description. Indian icons could have a more attractive border.
Guard (and possibly patrol) commands. These would require the Training Field upgrade to use (make Training Field cheaper in the meantime). Right-clicking a friendly unit should issue a Guard command to the currently selected unit.
Show idle workers as an icon in the (bottom right?) corner of the screen.
Playlist support, more faction-specific music, and non-specific music which plays after the faction music has finished.
Make the particles for workers hitting gold and stone more obvious, and implement them for all megapack factions.
Rotate minimap when rotating camera, rather than rotating the minimap camera position indicator.
Queued units and upgrades should appear as icons in the top right. Clicking the icon should remove that item from the production queue.
A per-faction total unit cap to discourage turtling, and limit network load. Could also limit numbers of defensive structures (Sphinxes etc).
Lighten some tilesets at night.
A hotkey to cycle through hidden units (those obscured by buildings or other units).
Support more players.
Make clearer which buildings are resource drop-off points, and for which resources.
Allow transferring resources to other players (at a cost). Would be a late game ability, requiring the presence of some building.
Trees could fall when chopped, rather than simply disappearing. Allow attacking and destroying trees.
Remove unit armour (but keep armour types like Leather etc), boost unit health to compensate. The problem with unit armour is that it takes off a fixed amount of damage, which means units with an already weak attack are especially badly affected. Maybe this was intentional, I don't know, but I don't think it's particularly desirable.
Allow setting elite values for skills and unit traits in the unit xml.
Replace experience system with a point-scoring system for hits, perhaps a bonus for kills.
Consider replacing the Priest with the Pharaoh since now the number of a specific unit can be restricted easily, it would be interesting to have a restricted unit, and he's required to build an Obelisk. Make him a bit tougher (and more expensive).
Faction preloading at game setup screen.

John.d.h

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Re: Another massive list
« Reply #1 on: 2 January 2011, 23:38:56 »
Allow selecting units by cell rather than checking for intersecting unit boundaries.
This one is kind of a mixed bag.  While it would be handy for hard-to-click-on units, what do you do about units in the courtyard of a building?

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Allow setting default attacks for units with multiple attacks. Battle Machine should probably use its arrow by default.
I could be wrong, but I think this is currently determined by their order in the XML, so if you want the arrow attack to be default, just re-arrange the skills and/or commands.

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Disable faction previews by default.
Why? :confused:

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Prompt for nickname when running the game for the first time.
Double-click a building to select all buildings of that type.
Allow setting gather points for incomplete buildings.
I think I can agree that those would be useful.

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Before a building's foundations are laid, place a transparent version of the completed building at the desired location. Enemies ignore this region, allies navigate around it.
That might be a bit jarring to look at.  In a futuristic sci-fi faction, having a transparent hologram of a building would look fine, but it would look a bit odd in a medieval/fantasy setting.  Placing some kind of foundation/scaffold/boundary would look good, but require more modeling work.

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Centre camera on selection by pressing corresponding control-group hotkey twice.
Available in GAE, in case you want to swipe the code.

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Blue movement/gather point arrow should have a minimum transparency cap, so it doesn't seem to disappear.
What is it that you don't like about that?

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Units shouldn't gain experience from killing allied units (maybe this is already the case, haven't tested recently).
Also in GAE.

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Technicians should be able to place air ballista (and possibly catapult, battle machine) foundations like workers. They should move to the indicated area and only then start building.
Should be coming in GAE 0.4, so it might be a good idea to wait for that or do it cooperatively.

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Guard (and possibly patrol) commands.
Not to sound like a broken record or anything...

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Show idle workers as an icon in the (bottom right?) corner of the screen.
That would be nice, or just have a hotkey for selecting the next idle worker.  Maybe an XML tag would be necessary to distinguish whether that unit counts, since Technicians might be standing around waiting for things to repair most of the time, and that's probably exactly what you want them to do.

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Rotate minimap when rotating camera, rather than rotating the minimap camera position indicator.
That seems more like a stylistic preference rather than an objective improvement to me.

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A per-faction total unit cap to discourage turtling, and limit network load. Could also limit numbers of defensive structures (Sphinxes etc).
Why?  Turtling is a perfectly legitimate technique.  If anything, this would just discourage human wave tactics, which are already dealt with by mechanisms in place (resource upkeep, selection size).

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Make clearer which buildings are resource drop-off points, and for which resources.
What's more clear than saying this building stores 200 wood?

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Remove unit armour (but keep armour types like Leather etc), boost unit health to compensate. The problem with unit armour is that it takes off a fixed amount of damage, which means units with an already weak attack are especially badly affected. Maybe this was intentional, I don't know, but I don't think it's particularly desirable. [emphasis mine]
Armor values serve a vital function and do exactly what they're supposed to do.  Just like you said, it reduces the effectiveness of heavy attacks by a small amount while reducing the effectiveness of small attacks by a huge amount, so no number of darts is ever going to destroy a tank, but a rocket should just fine.  Removing that would be making the game dumber by reducing strategy (which is what the "est" in Glest stands for).  Units in Glest are already barely more than different combinations of HP and attack-strenght, and this would make it even worse.  Exact opposite of progress. :thumbdown:

John.d.h

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Re: Another massive list
« Reply #2 on: 3 January 2011, 02:20:18 »
[Off-topic responses split to another thread.]

https://forum.megaglest.org/index.php?topic=6389.msg64894#msg64894

claymore

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Re: Another massive list
« Reply #3 on: 3 January 2011, 08:43:06 »
Allow selecting units by cell rather than checking for intersecting unit boundaries.
This one is kind of a mixed bag.  While it would be handy for hard-to-click-on units, what do you do about units in the courtyard of a building?

I didn't think of that, thanks for pointing this out. Might have to prevent the situation from arising by disallowing units from stopping there. Or clicking twice in a cell could select other units in the same cell.

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Allow setting default attacks for units with multiple attacks. Battle Machine should probably use its arrow by default.
I could be wrong, but I think this is currently determined by their order in the XML, so if you want the arrow attack to be default, just re-arrange the skills and/or commands.

Thanks, that would be useful in the meantime. But what I had in mind was being able to set the default attack command *during* a game on a per-unit basis (think autocast from Warcraft 3 if you're familiar with it).

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Disable faction previews by default.
Why? :confused:

Well, because I was never a big fan of them. I think it's easy enough just to try out the faction, so it's not a fantastic use of screen space. When you've tried a faction once, you'll never need or want the preview again.

Map previews, on the other hand, are indispensable.

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Before a building's foundations are laid, place a transparent version of the completed building at the desired location. Enemies ignore this region, allies navigate around it.
That might be a bit jarring to look at.  In a futuristic sci-fi faction, having a transparent hologram of a building would look fine, but it would look a bit odd in a medieval/fantasy setting.  Placing some kind of foundation/scaffold/boundary would look good, but require more modeling work.

A ghosted version of the building is already used when placing the foundations. I don't think it would look particularly odd if it were to persist until construction has started. But anyway, the important thing is to mark the region as a no-go area for allies.

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Blue movement/gather point arrow should have a minimum transparency cap, so it doesn't seem to disappear.
What is it that you don't like about that?

Why do we have the arrow in the first place? So I can see where my units are going. The reason for the transparency is because the arrow covers the extent of the screen, it might be seen as obtrusive... but I don't think it is, and the arrow only appears for a moment. A small degree of transparency solves this anyway.

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Show idle workers as an icon in the (bottom right?) corner of the screen.
That would be nice, or just have a hotkey for selecting the next idle worker.  Maybe an XML tag would be necessary to distinguish whether that unit counts, since Technicians might be standing around waiting for things to repair most of the time, and that's probably exactly what you want them to do.

Actually, there's already a hotkey ('I'). But there's no good way to know there are idle workers before pressing it, so the result is that I press it almost continuously in-between issuing other commands.

An xml tag might be useful, good idea.

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Rotate minimap when rotating camera, rather than rotating the minimap camera position indicator.
That seems more like a stylistic preference rather than an objective improvement to me.

The issue is that when the indicator rotates and you pan the camera, it then moves at a different angle to your camera movement, which isn't entirely intuitive. But you're right. Anyway, this one isn't terribly important.

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A per-faction total unit cap to discourage turtling, and limit network load. Could also limit numbers of defensive structures (Sphinxes etc).
Why?  Turtling is a perfectly legitimate technique.  If anything, this would just discourage human wave tactics, which are already dealt with by mechanisms in place (resource upkeep, selection size).

Legitimate but overused imo. In our games it's about the only strategy I've ever actually seen, though the CPU is admittedly rather aggressive. I don't see how it discourages wave tactics, the point is to stop players from stockpiling units indefinitely, and force them to try to attack in order to make some sort of progress (and they'll be able to build new units again to replace them when they die, so it will seem more worthwhile).

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Make clearer which buildings are resource drop-off points, and for which resources.
What's more clear than saying this building stores 200 wood?

I could be wrong about this, but just because a building "stores" wood (raises wood cap) doesn't imply that it serves as a drop-off site for wood. I was caught out by this.

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Remove unit armour (but keep armour types like Leather etc), boost unit health to compensate. The problem with unit armour is that it takes off a fixed amount of damage, which means units with an already weak attack are especially badly affected. Maybe this was intentional, I don't know, but I don't think it's particularly desirable. [emphasis mine]
Armor values serve a vital function and do exactly what they're supposed to do.  Just like you said, it reduces the effectiveness of heavy attacks by a small amount while reducing the effectiveness of small attacks by a huge amount, so no number of darts is ever going to destroy a tank, but a rocket should just fine.  Removing that would be making the game dumber by reducing strategy (which is what the "est" in Glest stands for).  Units in Glest are already barely more than different combinations of HP and attack-strenght, and this would make it even worse.  Exact opposite of progress. :thumbdown:

This was the most controversial idea, so I put it near the end of the list. In your example, maybe the tank just needs buffed up a bit. All arrows do at least 1 damage, so it will be destroyed eventually. But it's a game, it doesn't have to be realistic.

So I don't think this one is so clear, and the only way to find out for sure how playable this would be is to test it. Armour *types* should still be important of course, so the rock-paper-scissors mechanic is preserved. Anyways, this one shouldn't really be here... it's just food for thought really.

Thanks for taking the time to respond to these, much appreciated.  :thumbup:
« Last Edit: 3 January 2011, 13:38:19 by claymore »

Omega

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Re: Another massive list
« Reply #4 on: 3 January 2011, 22:05:17 »
I don't have time to comment on every idea (a very long list). I support many, but I will comment on the ones I OPPOSE:

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Allow selecting units by cell rather than checking for intersecting unit boundaries.
As per what John said. I've never had problems clicking units anyway.

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Disable faction previews by default.
Big no. I suppose I'll cope with an option to turn it off, to please you, but definitely have it on by default. You can always turn it off if you don't want it then.

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Set fog of war to "explored" and enable observers by default.
The fog of war settings should always be the default from Glest. That's usually the default in other games that use similar systems too, and they can always change it if they don't like it, but keep it as it is.

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Shift faction preview (and option widgets) to the right slightly in game menu screen.
Why? What's wrong with it?

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Allow setting gather points for incomplete buildings.
Incomplete buildings have no use for meeting points, so I fail to see the use of this.

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Experiment with sounds for *every* click command, rather than once every so many clicks. I don't think it would be so annoying, and it would make the game feel more responsive in a sense.
Too annoying... It's like the menu sounds in many RPG's every time you scrolled down on an item. That's what forced me to ultimately turn sound off in those games, and I wouldn't want to see MG do likewise...

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Show idle workers as an icon in the (bottom right?) corner of the screen.
Clutters the screen and there's already a hotkey for that.

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Rotate minimap when rotating camera, rather than rotating the minimap camera position indicator.
BIG no. The minimap is far better like this... Rotating maps are just plain confusing. I've had NO troubles with our minimap...

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A per-faction total unit cap to discourage turtling, and limit network load. Could also limit numbers of defensive structures (Sphinxes etc).
Same as previous reply. Another huge no. I've always hated limiting units in games, and definitely do not want to see that in MG, not even as a mod option... If you're having trouble fighting turtlers, it's time to improvise your strategy... Or maybe fight fire with fire. A cap will only hinder gameplay.

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Trees could fall when chopped, rather than simply disappearing. Allow attacking and destroying trees.
If trees fall, it becomes impossible to clear a path if desired. While the second statement has the CRITICAL flaw that trees are the most commonly used "border" for maps. If you could destroy them instantly, you could make paths where there was not meant to be, completely compromising one's base.

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Remove unit armour (but keep armour types like Leather etc), boost unit health to compensate. The problem with unit armour is that it takes off a fixed amount of damage, which means units with an already weak attack are especially badly affected. Maybe this was intentional, I don't know, but I don't think it's particularly desirable.
Another huge NO. Armour is a MUST. Why would poking a needle at a metal plate even leave a scratch? Boosting HP and retaining the armour type would NOT solve that issue. And while I'm not completely sure how armour works (there was a topic about that maybe a year or more ago), I don't think it removes a set amount of damage... At any rate, you complain that weak attacks are ineffective against well armour foes? Well, they're supposed to be! Keep your fast-and-weak attackers for the unarmoured foes, and use strong attacks for the strong armoured foes. Removing armour just removes strategy. I'd much rather see the defensive capabilities of units INCREASED. And the way I see it, it's very much intentional, and desirable as well.

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Allow setting elite values for skills and unit traits in the unit xml.
I don't understand what this means.



Thanks for compiling this list. While I think it has some faults, it does also contain several good suggestions. Please note that I did not comment on any proposed faction changes, as I consider them less crucial and important as the engine changes.
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claymore

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Re: Another massive list
« Reply #5 on: 4 January 2011, 10:18:56 »
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Allow selecting units by cell rather than checking for intersecting unit boundaries.
As per what John said. I've never had problems clicking units anyway.

I have, particularly when trying to issue attack orders in an intense battle. Maybe your unit-selecting skills are superior to mine, but even outside battle, some units (especially buildings) take me multiple clicks.

This is the only controversial idea that I think is near essential.

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Set fog of war to "explored" and enable observers by default.
The fog of war settings should always be the default from Glest. That's usually the default in other games that use similar systems too, and they can always change it if they don't like it, but keep it as it is.

Well, I have no problems with that if it's more familiar to new players. It's just this is the way we usually play (or the way I insist on playing). My theory is that the black shroud is just a nuisance, most people can't be bothered to scout, and the shroud disadvantages players unfamiliar with the map. So I'd prefer they learn to play this way. :)

Just to clarify, this mode still has fog, you can't see what your enemies are doing.

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Shift faction preview (and option widgets) to the right slightly in game menu screen.
Why? What's wrong with it?

Map previews look like they're slightly too far to the left, so it doesn't quite look right, if you know what I mean. Not very important though...

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Allow setting gather points for incomplete buildings.
Incomplete buildings have no use for meeting points, so I fail to see the use of this.

Originally suggested by olaus. I know where I want the gather point for my building to be, so why should I have to wait until it's constructed before I can set it? And if I'm ready to set it now, I'd like to save myself the trouble later.

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Experiment with sounds for *every* click command, rather than once every so many clicks. I don't think it would be so annoying, and it would make the game feel more responsive in a sense.
Too annoying... It's like the menu sounds in many RPG's every time you scrolled down on an item. That's what forced me to ultimately turn sound off in those games, and I wouldn't want to see MG do likewise...

We should test this one and do a poll for more opinions. But I would expect it to be controversial.

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Show idle workers as an icon in the (bottom right?) corner of the screen.
Clutters the screen and there's already a hotkey for that.

Again suggested by olaus, and a few other people have also agreed with me that this would be useful. I've already explained why I find the hotkey to be inadequate. Warcraft 3 has this feature, and I had no trouble with it there. At the very least, make it optional.

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Trees could fall when chopped, rather than simply disappearing. Allow attacking and destroying trees.
If trees fall, it becomes impossible to clear a path if desired. While the second statement has the CRITICAL flaw that trees are the most commonly used "border" for maps. If you could destroy them instantly, you could make paths where there was not meant to be, completely compromising one's base.

I don't know what you mean about it becoming impossible to clear a path, since the trees would disappear after falling. The effect is purely aesthetic. You might have a point about trees being used as a border in some maps, but destroying them would just become part of the strategy. Again, other games haven't had any problems with this feature.

Workers can fell trees anyway, so if a map designer *really* wants make an area impassable, they should use cliffs/rivers instead of trees.

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Remove unit armour (but keep armour types like Leather etc), boost unit health to compensate. The problem with unit armour is that it takes off a fixed amount of damage, which means units with an already weak attack are especially badly affected. Maybe this was intentional, I don't know, but I don't think it's particularly desirable.
Another huge NO. Armour is a MUST. Why would poking a needle at a metal plate even leave a scratch? Boosting HP and retaining the armour type would NOT solve that issue. And while I'm not completely sure how armour works (there was a topic about that maybe a year or more ago), I don't think it removes a set amount of damage... At any rate, you complain that weak attacks are ineffective against well armour foes? Well, they're supposed to be! Keep your fast-and-weak attackers for the unarmoured foes, and use strong attacks for the strong armoured foes. Removing armour just removes strategy. I'd much rather see the defensive capabilities of units INCREASED. And the way I see it, it's very much intentional, and desirable as well.

So is that a no? ;)

Armour does work that way, if you look at the code. Anyway, I've already answered this one.

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Allow setting elite values for skills and unit traits in the unit xml.
I don't understand what this means.

Sorry, should have explained this one. Currently, the armour, HP etc that a unit gets as a bonus on attaining "elite" status is hardcoded (I think, not sure). You might want certain units to get different bonuses, and in different areas.

Again, thanks for the feedback.  :thumbup:  That you support many of the other suggestions is reassuring. I guess the least controversial should take some sort of priority.

Omega

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Re: Another massive list
« Reply #6 on: 4 January 2011, 18:13:02 »
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Allow setting elite values for skills and unit traits in the unit xml.
I don't understand what this means.

Sorry, should have explained this one. Currently, the armour, HP etc that a unit gets as a bonus on attaining "elite" status is hardcoded (I think, not sure). You might want certain units to get different bonuses, and in different areas.
Actually, GAE lets you set what stats are increased when leveling and by how much. See the Military mod (where EVERY level is customized) for examples.
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