Tool IDEA [3D Map editor shematics]

[Coldfusionstorm]

Problem:its hard to see what you are doing with the current editor, and its hard to use.

Solution:create a new variant of glest_game for map editor purposes, interested, then look below.

GUI removed: All current interface commands are to be disabled or exchanged for something useble
GUI added:Add a overlay that have no function in the game but to select what tool you want to use,(object placer,hill lower,hill raiser,resource object, ect,ect).

FILESYSTEM: Removed:nothing
FILESYSTEM:Add, save changes in current open map to file.

Possible problem: the system depends on units being present.
possible solution:make a invisible unit that cannot change state. this would require a "world editor" faction.

Possible problem:the adding of a extra menu might be hard, and or too much work
Possible solution:If a extra "world editor" faction were added, and used for problem one, then this unit could perhaps use a special method of calling the tool functions, instead of calling ability and unit commands this unit would "simply" call the functions needed for map manipulation.

more information on the fake-unit/world editor faction idea.
Adds a special faction to the game perhaps only selectable in a world edit menu entry(in the main menu, this just a customized custom game entry).
then when the game detects the "world editor" faction is selected.(we are inside the world editor menu now). all options are turned off, and fog of war is set to full view(meaning you can see map)
The game then loads a "template map", a pre-created empty map. (this is just a empty map we place in a folder somewhere).
you press start and the game loads the "world editor" faction and said units.

this unit is only here to work around that the game needs a building to not end the "game".

Dependent on solution.

Solution one: a added menu.
Solution two:the unit calls map editor functions directly indstead of abilty and commands.

Solution one description: The added menu would then contain a menu where you chose what tool you want to tuse.
Solution two description: The unit would then have ability/commands whatever to hook up into the editor functions.

thats all folks, hopefully the coders can use this if not too bad .

[Psychedelic_hands]

Press CTRL+M.  That's an easy way of seeing you map.

I don't think a 3-D map editor is very necessary, I mean it might make map-making a ted nicer but the coders probably have much more important things to attend to.

And I don't really understand a lot of the other things you're saying, sorry.  :'(

Edit: Are you saying having it so you can set up units where you want them?

P.S I hope this means we'll see some new maps in GIS

[Coldfusionstorm]

You will not, there are a FEW new maps in GIS, and i do not intend to provide more than a few 1v1,2v2,3v3,4,4 maps. also because there is a loooong way untill we get a well made tile set for GIS, because we use object that are so different in terms of functionality the editor have some serious limitation to what we can do, and I'm not talking only 3d here. the tileset and Maps will be one place were i have seriously made some cuts, because of time.

tileset i will have to improve eventually, but i think i need coding improvment too, so i will talk with conzar about that.

its allways on the list but its a loooong way down .

[DMJC]

I'd like to see map editing like Emperor: Battle for Dune had, where you draw a polygon on a top down view of the map, and based on the terrain type you had selected it auto creates the terrain for you, including creating smoothed/curved geometry between the polygon points. So that a triangle would still look curved. It was a really good system for editing terrain, and you only reallly defined ramp areas in the engine. I'd like to see a hybrid scheme that combines, heightmaps, polygonal terrain and possibly 3d modelled tiles and objects. so you can choose any of the editing styles you like, and combine effects from each of them. I think a map editor should involve a live preview, or failing that, a quick 2d mode and a 3d preview.

[treba]

as it could be really hard to implent live modification of the terrain into the 3d engine, i also like the idea of a quick preview. one button hit and the game will open in window mode with a small resolution, without any factions loaded and the zoomlevel set to the one that is used to make screenshots of the whole map.
that should be quite easy to implent and would already make easier to get an idea of what you're doing.

[wciow]

i also like the idea of a quick preview. one button hit and the game will open in window mode with a small resolution, without any factions loaded and the zoomlevel set to the one that is used to make screenshots of the whole map.

This is already implemented in GAE with the "view map" command. You can also select which tileset you wish to load the map with 

[Coldfusionstorm]

as it could be really hard to implent live modification of the terrain into the 3d engine, i also like the idea of a quick preview. one button hit and the game will open in window mode with a small resolution, without any factions loaded and the zoomlevel set to the one that is used to make screenshots of the whole map.
that should be quite easy to implent and would already make easier to get an idea of what you're doing.

Now without being a programmer i think it would be relatively easy, as the game can alrleady read map data, then you "just" need to render the map changes, while you do them, and then save the current map state to the file.

I will volunteer to test this feature a endless amount of time if the devs get on it.!

[Psychedelic_hands]

Well, cruzR was working on the map editor last and made some great progess, maybe try to contact him again?

Now without being a programmer i think it would be relatively easy, as the game can alrleady read map data, then you "just" need to render the map changes, while you do them, and then save the current map state to the file.

Well, technically it would be a better method would probably be taking the Terrain_rendered from Glest, then rebuilding the editor around it. It would mean starting over from nothing, but I'm sure you could recycle a lot of the code from the old editor.

Also I think a new tileset and map system is in order. One where tilesets can have unlimited amount of objects, and those objects could have their own .xml attributes. The maps would have predefined tilesets so this would work though, which might require a new map format.

[Coldfusionstorm]

@ Psychedelic_hands, Totally agree, The map's should be able to define what tileset is used for the map.

Perhaps even use different tilesets in the same map!.

example

tileset 1. (road texture)
tileset 2. (lava texture)

Map1.
Uses road(texture 1 from from tileset 1).
Uses lava (texture 1 from tileset 2.



Road

[Omega]

Perhaps even use different tilesets in the same map!.

That would not work since the user chooses the tileset, not the map.

[John.d.h]

Perhaps even use different tilesets in the same map!.

That would not work since the user chooses the tileset, not the map.

Well we are talking about a new format.

[Coldfusionstorm]

Note that the original Concept is "just" for 3d editing map's. and the exstra stuff is for perhaps a new map format.

[Omega]

Perhaps even use different tilesets in the same map!.

That would not work since the user chooses the tileset, not the map.

Well we are talking about a new format.

For that, yeah. But the topic in question is about a 3D map editor, which would be very useful. If we ever get into a new format, though, it really should have the ability to add tileset independent models (eg, we could make a ruined map which uses models of large ruins, something not normally possible in Glest maps, which I see as a massive limitation. Of course, changes like this would be far easier if there was a 3D map editor first.

[Coldfusionstorm]

What do people think of the concept? (mostly devs related), Do you like the way i set the post up, should i be more precise?, perhaps add more problem/solutions?.

[MuwuM]

I think I understood the problem and played around a bit but it's quite hard to build such an editor, when your not so familar with 3d-engine-development, even when I have quite a lot conception done ...

[Coldfusionstorm]

Are you refering to my concept or did you make your own or improve upon my concept?.

Yeah, Well, i can't even code a line of c+, much less any game related stuff.

[MuwuM]

Basically I had the idea on my own, but it's very similary to yours. Mine is a bit more technical but the idea is the same.

[Coldfusionstorm]

Cool, thats awesome to hear. At least im not that far from a coders mindset. Il take that as a compliment.
Thanks .

Happy in not the only one missing the feature in MG.