Glest forks to join forces?

[John.d.h]

You realize that part of MG will most likey be in Glest 4?

You're still really missing the point.

[MirceaKitsune]

Personally, I still really hope that GAE or MG (or the merge between them) will also be used to continue and revive the original Glest, and make Glest 4.0 happen. I believe that would be a really great thing Don't know if it will really happen, though.

[-Archmage-]

We're hoping to call the merge Glest 4.0

[MirceaKitsune]

We're hoping to call the merge Glest 4.0

OMG that sounds so good! I truly hope that will happen

[titi]

Before everyone gets too exited, be warned this merger will take a lot of time!
If you ask me you can expect about one year without stable release!
My prediction is about 1/2 year for multiplayer stability and another 1/2 year for the rest, if all goes well ....
And this this will not include any new features, it just means we get things stable and reach the state we have now!

So hopefully we will see something good at about may 2012!
( And thats the sad part about the merger, lets see how far projects like 0AD will be in this time ....  )

[MirceaKitsune]

Oh... that is a lot Still, if we can imagine and treat alpha / beta releases the same way as normal releases, some can consider it all begins when the first version is posted. If you look at Minecraft for instance, it's so popular that you forget it's still in Beta stage as you play it, or that it has some bugs left. I also work on an Open Source game that had only one alpha release, and has been going on for an year now. Yet I don't feel like I'm waiting for something to happen, and feel for it like for a final project.

That said, I am wondering how unstable the merge between MG and GAE will actually be. Last time I tried them, both ran mostly bug free, except for minor issues I could notice. I never seen any true bugs in GAE, and the only one I seen in MG a few days ago was music going insane after exiting the options menu. I even played MG online, and apart from the normal lag, there were no issues there that I could notice, and it went smoothly. I'm even running MG from the SVN repository now, and not the stable releases.

So my personal feeling is that both are rather stable, although the merge between them might be a different story. Judging by that, unless the merge itself will have many new issues and instabilities, I'd imagine it to a stable point in about 6 months. But of course, I don't know as well as the admins or devs, and that's just my own feeling and 2 cents.

[Zoythrus]

well, Titi, we may not be much help, but we are all willing to somehow make this merge go faster. anything you need us to do?

[ultifd]

I suppose you could help test GAE Git-Master, make sure all the features work and no bugs...etc.
http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/glestae/timeline
http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/glestae/wiki/CompileGuideWin

[charlieg]

Glest Forever (Four-ever)
Glest Revolution
Glest Kingdoms
Glest: Clash of Empires
Epic Glest
Glest Evolved

I don't think you should call it Glest 4.0 or anything 4.0; christen it a new project.  Perhaps even ditch the Glest moniker.

Also, if it will take a year, and it probably will - encourage the content producers (and there are many here) to create a good (at least 10 maps) single player campaign with story line.  Perhaps have it based on some kind of journey (faction A must fight faction B, but travel through the lands of factions C, D, and E first) so you can make use of some of the many cool mods which you should surely cherry pick for this epic game.

[Zoythrus]

Glest: Clash of Empires
Epic Glest
Glest Evolved

im kinda liking these three names....

[ultifd]

Well, I think we should worry about the name later...worry about that after both forks stabilize their code and release their final version...and after most of the code is merged too. So people should just help test GAE and MG...Git Master and SVN Head.

[MirceaKitsune]

Glest Forever (Four-ever)
Glest Revolution
Glest Kingdoms
Glest: Clash of Empires
Epic Glest
Glest Evolved

I don't think you should call it Glest 4.0 or anything 4.0; christen it a new project.  Perhaps even ditch the Glest moniker.

Also, if it will take a year, and it probably will - encourage the content producers (and there are many here) to create a good (at least 10 maps) single player campaign with story line.  Perhaps have it based on some kind of journey (faction A must fight faction B, but travel through the lands of factions C, D, and E first) so you can make use of some of the many cool mods which you should surely cherry pick for this epic game.

I wouldn't suggest this myself. Mostly because, I believe that continuing the original Glest instead of going as a separate fork is in all ways best. If there's a discontinued original project, why not continue that if possible? And keep its popularity, name, and everything it is and has too, making the project stronger and keeping its user base in one place instead of 2-3 (especially since Glest has few servers and available online players). If it's a different project, it will be split with the discontinued Glest 3 to some point. Whereas Glest 4 would be an update to the original series, and everyone would just update and focus around the same project, helping it grow bigger and stay together. Just the way I see things.

The only way I'd personally agree with the new merge staying a fork from original Glest, is if it's way too different to still match what Glest is (eg: a different artistic direction, rather than a new improved version). The megapack can qualify as that to a good point (based on human races in real life, whereas magitech was based around a world where magic and tech societies fight each other). But hopefully, this change can still make sense on the original Glest title.

Other than that, there would indeed be other concerns apart from the name too. Although the decided name would matter for setting up the repository, website and all. Just hoping this merge won't take way too long otherwise. And although I'm hardly a coder when it comes to C++ (and even more hardly an artist for models textures or sounds), let me know if I can do anything to help as well.

[John.d.h]

I don't think you should call it Glest 4.0 or anything 4.0; christen it a new project.  Perhaps even ditch the Glest moniker.

The whole problem and reason why nobody plays MG or GAE is because they're not Glest per se.  Glest is an established and known game, and there's no need to go reinventing the wheel by trying to rebuild that.

[-Archmage-]

@John+MirceaKitsune: I agree fully.

[MirceaKitsune]

The whole problem and reason why nobody plays MG or GAE is because they're not Glest per se.  Glest is an established and known game, and there's no need to go reinventing the wheel by trying to rebuild that.

+1 and fully agreed.

[Omega]

John summed it up well. The name Glest carries a lot more clout than a few lesser known forks. I support "Glest 4".

[MirceaKitsune]

BTW, I had a question about something I forgot to ask. There was a chat on IRC, and someone said that the merge will only begin next month. Is there a reason to wait 15 days, and preparations that take so long? I'm thinking things could go faster if they begin ASAP... though on the other hand, no one would want things to go bad due to being done in a rush.

If it would help the merge being faster, I run and update MegaGlest from SVN, and can test anything there for stability. I used to have GAE from SVN as well, but it stopped compiling at some point, although I still have and update the repository. So if I can test anything to make things go faster safely, please let me know.

[John.d.h]

If it would help the merge being faster, I run and update MegaGlest from SVN, and can test anything there for stability. I used to have GAE from SVN as well, but it stopped compiling at some point, although I still have and update the repository. So if I can test anything to make things go faster safely, please let me know.

GAE has moved to git since then.  Is that the problem?
https://docs.megaglest.org/GAE#Compiling

[charlieg]

The whole problem and reason why nobody plays MG or GAE is because they're not Glest per se.  Glest is an established and known game, and there's no need to go reinventing the wheel by trying to rebuild that.

+1 and fully agreed.

All of you are wrong. 

Glest was an unknown game itself at one point.  GAE and MG never got to that level of popularity because they never had their own establish, promoted brand.  Just as MG gets that (lovely website) the merger is announced.  Given 6 months, 2 solid releases, a tasty website, and GameX will be as popular as Glest ever was.

[ultifd]

I don't think anyone is completley right...but why debate on the name now? Ultimately if the Glest Team doesn't let the new fork become Glest 4, then it'll just become Glest-something else. Sure, we'll still lose hundreds of downloads each day, but eventually future glest will hopefully get popular. What the community should be doing, is to help test GAE Git-Master and MG SVN HEAD...

BTW, I had a question about something I forgot to ask. There was a chat on IRC, and someone said that the merge will only begin next month. Is there a reason to wait 15 days, and preparations that take so long? I'm thinking things could go faster if they begin ASAP... though on the other hand, no one would want things to go bad due to being done in a rush.

Both teams are currently busy...and the merge would be hard to start without the two stable releases of MG and GAE.

If it would help the merge being faster, I run and update MegaGlest from SVN, and can test anything there for stability. I used to have GAE from SVN as well, but it stopped compiling at some point, although I still have and update the repository. So if I can test anything to make things go faster safely, please let me know.

As people have said...including myself, GAE uses GIT now. (Future Glest will too.)

I suppose you could help test GAE Git-Master, make sure all the features work and no bugs...etc.
http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/glestae/wiki/CompileGuideWin

[John.d.h]

Glest was an unknown game itself at one point.  GAE and MG never got to that level of popularity because they never had their own establish, promoted brand.  Just as MG gets that (lovely website) the merger is announced.  Given 6 months, 2 solid releases, a tasty website, and GameX will be as popular as Glest ever was.

If Glest and GameX continue to exist as separate entities, then every download that Glest gets is a download that GameX didn't get.  That's bad for GameX because it gets fewer players, and bad for the players because they get an older game that is never going to be updated or maintained.  If we make it a continuation of the old Glest project, then the publicity is combined, and everybody who has a copy of the old 3.2.2 version and decides to update, instead of finding out that the project was discontinued and won't ever be updated, they find out that the project lives on in the hands of the community that drives it and they get a massive upgrade.

For me, it's mostly a principle thing.  Almost everything Glest-related for the past three years or so has been created and maintained by the community since the Glest team has moved onto other endeavours.  Don't get me wrong -- the Glest Team are great guys and they've been very helpful when we've asked them for things, but Glest is really more a community thing now.  That's why I think the name and the project itself should naturally fall into the hands of that same community that has continuously built upon it for these years.

[Zoythrus]

the name "Glest" should stay.

[MirceaKitsune]

GAE has moved to git since then.  Is that the problem?
https://docs.megaglest.org/GAE#Compiling

Oh, didn't know that. I use GIT for other projects, and like it even more than SVN. So sure, I can switch.

Also glad that the new fork will use GIT Just hope it will also use MegaGlest's system of setting up the compiling, and make that as easy (just unpacking the deps and opening the sln file... without having to use cmake and harder stuff like GAE seems to require now).

[Omega]

Glest was an unknown game itself at one point.  GAE and MG never got to that level of popularity because they never had their own establish, promoted brand.  Just as MG gets that (lovely website) the merger is announced.  Given 6 months, 2 solid releases, a tasty website, and GameX will be as popular as Glest ever was.

If Glest and GameX continue to exist as separate entities, then every download that Glest gets is a download that GameX didn't get.  That's bad for GameX because it gets fewer players, and bad for the players because they get an older game that is never going to be updated or maintained.  If we make it a continuation of the old Glest project, then the publicity is combined, and everybody who has a copy of the old 3.2.2 version and decides to update, instead of finding out that the project was discontinued and won't ever be updated, they find out that the project lives on in the hands of the community that drives it and they get a massive upgrade.

I fully agree. It sucks having bug reports from people or those asking for feature requests when MG/GAE already fix/have that, simply because the main game is well known while the forks require you to browse the forums a bit more to find out about. Still, why are we arguing about the name? Let the devs decide. After all, as Silnarm put it, He who codes, decides.

[-Archmage-]

The whole problem and reason why nobody plays MG or GAE is because they're not Glest per se.  Glest is an established and known game, and there's no need to go reinventing the wheel by trying to rebuild that.

+1 and fully agreed.

All of you are wrong. 

Glest was an unknown game itself at one point.  GAE and MG never got to that level of popularity because they never had their own establish, promoted brand.  Just as MG gets that (lovely website) the merger is announced.  Given 6 months, 2 solid releases, a tasty website, and GameX will be as popular as Glest ever was.

You seriously don't see how that's "rebuilding the wheel"?
And no, popularity takes a bit more time......

@John: Most of the downloads MG has ever gotten come from people that have already downloaded Glest. Basically most download Glest, all download Glest/MG/GAE, and few download only MG/GAE. You can't split them apart that's not simply unrealistic.

@ULTImateFryingDutchman: We're talking about where the merge will take root, the name is simply affected by that.

Really, if the Glest Team will allow, we should start on Glest's public base. Otherwise we probably won't break any public size records for a year or two at least, and even then........