Author Topic: Glest forks to join forces?  (Read 24163 times)

Tununias

  • Summoner
  • **
  • Posts: 54
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Glest forks to join forces?
« Reply #125 on: 14 May 2011, 00:52:03 »
This merge is a great idea. It's like if the Silvanesti elves and the Qualinesti elves joining forces. Or like buying peanut butter and jelly in the same jar. Or like declaring war on ones self in order to bring peace to those around you. Or like digging a hole to china so we can order Chinese food directly from china. Or like... yeah... The first sentence sums it up.  :P
Linux- Accelerate your PC!

ultifd

  • Airship
  • ********
  • Posts: 4,450
  • The Glest Video Guy :) The one and only. :P
    • View Profile
    • My Youtube Channel
    • Email
Re: Glest forks to join forces?
« Reply #126 on: 14 May 2011, 01:44:29 »
And "digging a hole" is possibly even better, as it will take a lot of work time.  :thumbup:

-Archmage-

  • Moderator
  • Dragon
  • ********
  • Posts: 5,767
  • Evil is ambitious. But good is simply better.
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Glest forks to join forces?
« Reply #127 on: 15 May 2011, 05:24:41 »
As well, I'd prefer GAE's folder structure and phsyFS.
:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
Check it out! Join maybe?
MegaGlest Refit Project!!!

will

  • Golem
  • ******
  • Posts: 783
    • View Profile
Re: Glest forks to join forces?
« Reply #128 on: 15 May 2011, 07:01:53 »
I've noticed that MG is now using ~/.megaglest when I install from the deb games repo.

I find this every bit as easy as ~/.glestadv/addons

I have said before and I'll say again, physfs is only working with the 'load everything in arbitrary order' simply because there haven't been collisions yet.  .megaglest/ is every bit as limited, and both need rethinking.

Sylexus

  • Initiate
  • Posts: 5
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Glest forks to join forces?
« Reply #129 on: 3 June 2011, 23:17:20 »
so what's the status on the progress?

EDIT: Also, say I want to start a project now and move it to this theoretical G4. Would I want to do the coding on GAE or MegaGlest?
« Last Edit: 4 June 2011, 01:24:25 by Sylexus »

Omega

  • MegaGlest Team
  • Dragon
  • ********
  • Posts: 6,120
  • I'm totally not a robot
    • View Profile
    • Glest Wiki
    • Email
Re: Glest forks to join forces?
« Reply #130 on: 4 June 2011, 06:18:26 »
so what's the status on the progress?
They're still planning things out, some MegaGlest team programmers seem to be taking a look at GAE, and overly, they are deciding how best to proceed, bearing in mind that GAE 0.4 is still incomplete, and that will have to be done before they can merge. That, and they need to stop adding new features  ;).

EDIT: Also, say I want to start a project now and move it to this theoretical G4. Would I want to do the coding on GAE or MegaGlest?
Doesn't matter, the features of both will be supported. GAE has more features, MegaGlest has better multiplayer and AI, the merge will take the best of both engines. http://glest.wikia.com/wiki/Engines
Edit the MegaGlest wiki: http://docs.megaglest.org/

Comprehensive documentation is our goal. Help us reach it!

Sylexus

  • Initiate
  • Posts: 5
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Glest forks to join forces?
« Reply #131 on: 4 June 2011, 15:42:24 »
Thanks for the response, nice to get an update. So does the GAE team have an ETA for when they'll cut off adding and start the merge? And by saying it doesn't matter, does that mean I can begin editing code on either engine right now? Or not GAE since it's incompatible?

Psychedelic_hands

  • Archmage
  • ******
  • Posts: 621
  • It's all in the mind you know....
    • View Profile
    • Constellus Wiki Page
    • Email
Re: Glest forks to join forces?
« Reply #132 on: 4 June 2011, 15:59:02 »
EDIT: Also, say I want to start a project now and move it to this theoretical G4. Would I want to do the coding on GAE or MegaGlest?
Doesn't matter, the features of both will be supported. GAE has more features, MegaGlest has better multiplayer and AI, the merge will take the best of both engines. http://glest.wikia.com/wiki/Engines

I'd say really it depends on how long away you're planing to release.
If you want to release in a few weeks you may aswell build it in MG, so you can play with others in multiplayer. But if you're expecting many months of work I say use the most of GAE's wider features list.
But thats of course on how heavily your gameplay would rely on GAEs features...
If you're only going to use them for a few nifty gimmicks then maybe use MG and add them in later, but if a faction is centered around certain features then GAE would be best.

Sylexus

  • Initiate
  • Posts: 5
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Glest forks to join forces?
« Reply #133 on: 4 June 2011, 19:02:38 »
is there a way to port some of GAEs features to MG temporarily?

ultifd

  • Airship
  • ********
  • Posts: 4,450
  • The Glest Video Guy :) The one and only. :P
    • View Profile
    • My Youtube Channel
    • Email
Re: Glest forks to join forces?
« Reply #134 on: 4 June 2011, 19:56:46 »
If you know c++ yourself, I suppose some of the features wouldn't be too hard to port. You could try that, having a local build. As for the developers porting it, same thing but that's not really the point of having a merge...

Omega

  • MegaGlest Team
  • Dragon
  • ********
  • Posts: 6,120
  • I'm totally not a robot
    • View Profile
    • Glest Wiki
    • Email
Re: Glest forks to join forces?
« Reply #135 on: 5 June 2011, 02:02:03 »
is there a way to port some of GAEs features to MG temporarily?
The other way around would be far easier, though. The merge will be using GAE as the base, since it has the most changes and refactoring. In all honesty, there is no roadplan yet, no ETAs or anything... It could take anything from a month to a year to merge, depending largely on how much time the programmers have and how well they work together.
Edit the MegaGlest wiki: http://docs.megaglest.org/

Comprehensive documentation is our goal. Help us reach it!

Sylexus

  • Initiate
  • Posts: 5
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Glest forks to join forces?
« Reply #136 on: 6 June 2011, 00:46:14 »
thanks for the useful responses :)

softcoder

  • MegaGlest Team
  • Airship
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,206
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Glest forks to join forces?
« Reply #137 on: 8 June 2011, 15:20:19 »
I no longer believe a merge will be viable. I don't want to point fingers or blame anyone, i just don't think either team really wants to go through the process as perhaps we considered in the past. Open Source projects are usually done because it provides some enjoyment to its volunteers, trying to merge our code would certainly not be fun and I no longer desire to spend such a large amount of time doing this. Sorry to everyone who was hoping it would happen but I am:

a) too tired to do this
b) recognize the different philosophy between mg and gae are likely to continue frustrations instead of getting better
c) I likely left out many things here, but is it really important to list every reason? I don't think so.

I think its time to be honest and recognize the situation.

-Archmage-

  • Moderator
  • Dragon
  • ********
  • Posts: 5,767
  • Evil is ambitious. But good is simply better.
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Glest forks to join forces?
« Reply #138 on: 8 June 2011, 16:30:29 »
Awh comon Softcoder.........
The merge is so badly needed. :'(

If you guys aren't going to do your big "merge". Maybe you could drop one engine and transfer all the features into the other one and join up into one team? :D

Something has to happen. :'(
Check it out! Join maybe?
MegaGlest Refit Project!!!

titi

  • MegaGlest Team
  • Airship
  • ********
  • Posts: 3,974
    • View Profile
    • http://www.titusgames.de
Re: Glest forks to join forces?
« Reply #139 on: 8 June 2011, 20:09:18 »
Sorry I must say nearly the same as softcoder.

As softcoder I simply don't have the energy for a merge and I also see a big problem with different philosophies of MG and GAE development.
And like it or not I am simply not willing of giving up all we reached with MG and start again.
Looking at the code I think it is not posssible to merge, because things are too different! It would just mean either giving up MG or GAE and implementing things again. And as softcoder said thats no fun.

Sorry everyone, but it is like it is  :(
Try Megaglest! Improved Engine / New factions / New tilesets / New maps / New scenarios

ultifd

  • Airship
  • ********
  • Posts: 4,450
  • The Glest Video Guy :) The one and only. :P
    • View Profile
    • My Youtube Channel
    • Email
Re: Glest forks to join forces?
« Reply #140 on: 8 June 2011, 20:28:28 »
Maybe next year, I wish we could give you our own energy and time. Too be I don't really have any to spare. I also wish we could get your c++ knowledge :/
If there's ever a next time though, perhaps the first day that there's a discussion the "base" should try to be created...or started, at least.

Although this was already predictable, even if we did merge the basic things, I don't think there would have been enough testers (mainly people who can/will compile) anyways. (Basically we would have ~2 to 5 people.) We would be like 0 A.D, in that way. They probably had more people for testing, but I mean in terms of a general release.

Also, in terms of "fun", I don't think it would have been fun for all the developers and testers too. Perhaps it would be, near the end...but in reality it would have only been fun for the modders and players.
 :-\ Tis' a sad day. Perhaps, if people would try to help spread the word more, and if we could have a better base of testers and possibly more developers there could be a merge.

wciow

  • Behemoth
  • *******
  • Posts: 960
    • View Profile
Re: Glest forks to join forces?
« Reply #141 on: 8 June 2011, 23:05:12 »
I have to say I was surprised when the devs originally announced the merge, but I supported it because it would stop the division which we currently have. However, I see that the devs have some very valid reasons for not wanting to go ahead and the community should cease putting pressure on them or else we will have no devs at all  :o

Personally I have plenty of time, energy and enthusiam for Glest related projects but lack the crucial coding skills (please no comments about learning code, i don't have the patience or math skills!).

<off_topic_rant>
TBH I think its time that the Glest community give the devs a break and start working on a truly epic replacement for the aging magitech; pooling all the skills we have (combined with what has already been improved engine-wise) to create something that is a leap ahead. Theres little point asking for more and more features just to play re-textured magitech clones. Whilst I would love to do this alone its just not possible, a full scale TC needs a team.
</off_topic_rant>
Check out my new Goblin faction - https://forum.megaglest.org/index.php?topic=9658.0

ultifd

  • Airship
  • ********
  • Posts: 4,450
  • The Glest Video Guy :) The one and only. :P
    • View Profile
    • My Youtube Channel
    • Email
Re: Glest forks to join forces?
« Reply #142 on: 8 June 2011, 23:46:38 »
TBH I think its time that the Glest community give the devs a break and start working on a truly epic replacement for the aging magitech; pooling all the skills we have (combined with what has already been improved engine-wise) to create something that is a leap ahead. Theres little point asking for more and more features just to play re-textured magitech clones. Whilst I would love to do this alone its just not possible, a full scale TC needs a team.
Well Project Red has to be finished first. Maybe that could be applied to Project Red too, but then it'll take even longer to finish...

Omega

  • MegaGlest Team
  • Dragon
  • ********
  • Posts: 6,120
  • I'm totally not a robot
    • View Profile
    • Glest Wiki
    • Email
Re: Glest forks to join forces?
« Reply #143 on: 8 June 2011, 23:59:44 »
<angry-rant>
Tis a very sad day. I am not changing my signature though! I believe that if we stopped all new features and realized that nobody cares how long it takes, we would get it done one day. Now, this is just going to be a bigger rift in the community (very very bad) that will continue to grow until GAE implements an improved Multiplayer similar to MegaGlest's, in which case MG becomes obsolete, as, to be blunt, the multiplayer is the only feature actually big enough to make MG worth playing over GAE. Sure it has improved AI and cliffs, but those are small enough that GAE's mass features win hands down, and the cliffs would be simple enough to replicate, seeing there is less changes to the way the map is drawn than probably any other part of GAE from MG.

If the code isn't compatible to be truly merged, do a "group" merge, where we simply all work together to rebuild MG's features into GAE, but unlike a direct port, both the MG team and GAE team would work together on this one project, starting with Multiplayer, then progressing to the MDC (preferably with a prettier layout and more room for information), followed by the rest of the changes.

Obviously, nobody expected a merge to be easy nor quick, if it takes a year to merge, fine, it'll better the community on the long run. So you don't have the energy to do it all by yourself, fine, there just happens to be a lot of people here, Silnarm, Hailstone, Yggdrasil, Titi, Softcoder, and any others that could be enticed to help, so if everyone did one small thing, it would eventually be complete. After all, all MegaGlest features were programmed in once, so they can surely be done again. Sure, it took a while, but you would now have more experience, know how it was done (even if the theory must be changed a bit), and above all: more programmers.

In all honesty, I never supported the idea of having two separate engines for such a small community in the first place, and the merge would be the best way to make Glest greater, and, hopefully, return her to her glory days where she was winning awards, gaining dozens of members every day, and more.

To sum that all up, please, do not abandon the merge. While I cannot speak for the entire community, I'm sure that the majority of players would rather have a merge than a dozen new features to both engines (bearing in mind that once merged together, the development team is also merged, thus making it faster and easier to implement new features in the future). The bottom line? A strong, powerful Glest like the one we saw when we first came to this site.
</angry-rant>
Edit the MegaGlest wiki: http://docs.megaglest.org/

Comprehensive documentation is our goal. Help us reach it!

Gabbe

  • Airship
  • ********
  • Posts: 3,450
  • Ugly starts with "u" and awesome ends with "me"
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Glest forks to join forces?
« Reply #144 on: 9 June 2011, 00:03:35 »
WikiLeaks thats important, Constellus NEEDS THE MERGE! Too bad though... :(

Omega

  • MegaGlest Team
  • Dragon
  • ********
  • Posts: 6,120
  • I'm totally not a robot
    • View Profile
    • Glest Wiki
    • Email
Re: Glest forks to join forces?
« Reply #145 on: 9 June 2011, 00:15:47 »
Unification equals good. Not to get too offtopic, but wouldn't you consider the German reunification of 1990 to have been a very good thing? Think of the merge here as that same event. We have two rather different, yet very similar, forks that started as one project, but later split into two. Before this reunification, it was a state of chaos, and that reunification was wanted. After that unification, Germany emerged stronger, better, more peaceful, and overly a unified country. Being German, I'm sure you know that and I do not need to teach you history, but look at this GAE and MegaGlest merge as the same thing.

You don't necessarily have the same opinions, but that's a good thing, as it is difficult to ever do something unless all sides can be considered, but overly, it betters on the long run. I don't see the "different philosophies" to be so different, anyway. MG focuses on stable multiplayer (though, it has had times of being just as buggy as the worst GAE releases, so we'll just say it focuses on multiplayer), while GAE focuses on single player. Those aren't opposites! Both exist in the same game, just one does better than the other in each category, which makes the merge only a better idea.

So again, I plead, don't give up.
Edit the MegaGlest wiki: http://docs.megaglest.org/

Comprehensive documentation is our goal. Help us reach it!

ultifd

  • Airship
  • ********
  • Posts: 4,450
  • The Glest Video Guy :) The one and only. :P
    • View Profile
    • My Youtube Channel
    • Email
Re: Glest forks to join forces?
« Reply #146 on: 9 June 2011, 01:08:05 »
Constellus needs the merge? Well, it's my turn to be blunt. Just release a mg version, and once you have a website people will also try the GAE version. That's the other best option out there, which has been available for a long time.

If the code isn't compatible to be truly merged, do a "group" merge, where we simply all work together to rebuild MG's features into GAE, but unlike a direct port, both the MG team and GAE team would work together on this one project, starting with Multiplayer, then progressing to the MDC (preferably with a prettier layout and more room for information), followed by the rest of the changes.
All of you do know, that this was the plan...right?  :| This was, basically, the plan. What do you think the plan was, Omega? (It just seems like you thought something else was the plan.)

Quote
Now, this is just going to be a bigger rift in the community (very very bad) that will continue to grow until GAE implements an improved Multiplayer similar to MegaGlest's, in which case MG becomes obsolete, as, to be blunt, the multiplayer is the only feature actually big enough to make MG worth playing over GAE. Sure it has improved AI and cliffs, but those are small enough that GAE's mass features win hands down, and the cliffs would be simple enough to replicate, seeing there is less changes to the way the map is drawn than probably any other part of GAE from MG.
I honestly doubt GAE will ever stabilize or implement multiplayer themselves any time soon.  I hope they would "stabilize" GAE in general first anyways, after 4.0. That means making sure every single feature in GAE works  correctly with no bugs or glitches, or almost every single one. And maybe documenting all the features too. When my resolution bug is fixed, I'll try to help test what I can myself. Although this will be limited as since GAE is more of an engine than a game, a lot of it's features is revolved around modding. That'll probably be the real area where testing will be needed.

Back to GAE and multiplayer, even if it happens in the next couple of months the real hard part is stabilizing. With MG, it took a little bit more than a year for it to be fully stabilized. Therefore, maybe 2 years for GAE... Or maybe not, but there wouldn't be any testers for them anyways and during the time the mg team stabilized multiplayer, we tested it for at least 5 days a week...in our free time. MG won't become obsolete, not because of this at least.

Quote
I don't see the "different philosophies" to be so different, anyway.
When Softcoder said that, I'm pretty sure he means in terms of coding.

Omega

  • MegaGlest Team
  • Dragon
  • ********
  • Posts: 6,120
  • I'm totally not a robot
    • View Profile
    • Glest Wiki
    • Email
Re: Glest forks to join forces?
« Reply #147 on: 9 June 2011, 01:26:45 »
Constellus needs the merge? Well, it's my turn to be blunt. Just release a mg version, and once you have a website people will also try the GAE version. That's the other best option out there, which has been available for a long time.
That would NOT work, since Constellus uses even more GAE features than Military (for now) and is incredibly dependent on it. MG... would just not be the same.

All of you do know, that this was the plan...right?  :| This was, basically, the plan. What do you think the plan was, Omega? ...
I thought that was what the plan was at first, but I must be wrong, seeing they didn't even TRY it. Giving up without even trying is an extreme letdown. :thumbdown:

I honestly doubt GAE will ever stabilize or implement multiplayer themselves any time soon.  I hope they would "stabilize" GAE in general first anyways, after 4.0. That means making sure every single feature in GAE works  correctly with no bugs or glitches, or almost every single one. And maybe documenting all the features too. When my resolution bug is fixed, I'll try to help test what I can myself. Although this will be limited as since GAE is more of an engine than a game, a lot of it's features is revolved around modding. That'll probably be the real area where testing will be needed.
If there was a merge, it would have stable multiplayer ;D. And in the stable (not git-master) releases, there's usually no more bugs than most MegaGlest releases, and I try and document the features, though, it's no worse off than MG's documentation (come on, make some more wiki pages!).

Also, if there was only one engine, it'd be easier to get testers because we'd have the testers of both MG and GAE, since there is only one option.

Overly, I am still deeply disappointed in the poor attempt.
Edit the MegaGlest wiki: http://docs.megaglest.org/

Comprehensive documentation is our goal. Help us reach it!

ultifd

  • Airship
  • ********
  • Posts: 4,450
  • The Glest Video Guy :) The one and only. :P
    • View Profile
    • My Youtube Channel
    • Email
Re: Glest forks to join forces?
« Reply #148 on: 9 June 2011, 01:39:12 »
Constellus: Right, that's too bad, they should have done that a long time ago...

Quote
I thought that was what the plan was at first, but I must be wrong, seeing they didn't even TRY it. Giving up without even trying is an extreme letdown.
All the merge discussion and "trying" was available and done at IRC, basically. :| I think tomreyn has lots of logs...
 
If there was a merge, it would have stable multiplayer ;D. And in the stable (not git-master) releases, there's usually no more bugs than most MegaGlest releases, and I try and document the features, though, it's no worse off than MG's documentation (come on, make some more wiki pages!).

Also, if there was only one engine, it'd be easier to get testers because we'd have the testers of both MG and GAE, since there is only one option.
I know, I'm just talking about the forks themselves. And for testers, while that is true we still wouldn't have enough. We had more last year, actually.

-Archmage-

  • Moderator
  • Dragon
  • ********
  • Posts: 5,767
  • Evil is ambitious. But good is simply better.
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Glest forks to join forces?
« Reply #149 on: 9 June 2011, 02:06:22 »
Constellus is crushed by this. Constellus revolves around GAE, a port to MG would require a total re-working. We were counting on the merge to bring stable multiplayer for Constellus. The AI doesn't use the mod well at all, but a human would have great fun. Constellus was going to be a large scale mod that would be completely revolutionary in gameplay. So much for that. :P

I would test a merged engine. But I just don't see a point in these two forks, they're making a huge rift in the community and making modding a lot less fun.

I think I'm gonna give up on Glest modding and sorta retire, I caught the end of the "glory days".

I don't really care if the devs are pushed or not, they got the merge on the road, then pushed it off. It's like offering someone something they really want, telling them you'll get it for them in a month, then kicking them in the balls, and telling them you're just messing. They should've checked this stuff before they said it was going to happen. :(
Check it out! Join maybe?
MegaGlest Refit Project!!!