I want to run an idea past you...

[Rainbones]

Hello, this is my first post in this forum, and as you can probably guess, I am new to Glest. Now here is my idea. I know that Glest is a real time strategy, but what i want to do is perhaps make a mod that's a bit more squad based, and have sort of an rpg-esque feel to the units that you control. I haven't fully mapped out all the features that this is going to have, but i do tend to be a little ambitious with most of the things I do, so I'm limiting my scope at the minute in order to keep the project plausible. At the moment however, I am looking to change/add this to Glest.

1. Some sort of cover system. by this I mean add a skill that provides limited protection to the unit from being fired upon. I know that I will have to make models and animations to this effect, but as I'm making this Mod as a sort of a near future style, I was already planning on making fresh graphics. (Little side-note, because this is squad based, and as such will have less units because of its squad based nature, could the models I make be higher poly than the current Glest models?). Now my question on this point. Will adding the cover system be as simple as tweaking the xml files? or is it what I'm suspecting and I'm going to have to delve into source code for this? (don't mind doing this, but it does mean i'm going to crack on and finish my learning of C++).

2. I want to have each unit nameable, and have their own stats and skills and talents, in accordance with some rules/guidelines that i'm in the middle of making. I'd also like to incorporate some sort of Ranking system. (longer serving people have higher rank.)

3. I'd like to be able to save these squad's to a file, so you're not constantly starting from scratch. This is almost definitely going to require some source code work, I'm guessing?

p.s. I am going to be using Glest Advanced Engine, just because of its features.

Thanks for your time,
                        Rainbones.

[-Archmage-]

Sounds like an RPG to me. Yes that will require quite a bit of code work.

PS: It's Glest Advanced Engine, not Edition.

[Rainbones]

Sorry about the typo, I get it mixed up quite a lot. Cheers for the input, and Looking over what I've said, it does sound a lot like an rpg. And although i know people are probably thinking "if he want's to make something that close to an rpg, why not just use Glest's rpg equivalent?" It's a fair point, but i would like to note that although yes what i'm thinking of is technically an rpg, you wouldn't have 'direct' control over the squad-members, so to speak, but would instead have a sort of RTS control over the squad, whereby you use tactics like covering fire and such to accomplish a mission. the RPG elements, though important, are only there to add a further layer of tactics, because in my view it really fleshes out a game when you have units that you designed for their role in your strategy.

Just my two cents.

Again, Thanks for your Time,

Rainbones.

[John.d.h]

1. While it isn't exactly cover, emanations can make a unit give bonuses to nearby units.  For example, you could have a "barricade" unit that gives +10 armor to units within two spaces.

2 & 3. These are both going to require some coding, I think.

Depending on your visual style, you could have a look at Omega's Military mod or Ishmaru's upcoming Annex for art assets.

[Rainbones]

Thanks, I knew about the emanation thing, and was going to use it, but wasn't sure if the emanation can be made to apply only to the unit using it. But this would require a neutral emanation as the cover should be able to be used by both teams. Also, as an aside, if I made the pieces of cover as neutral units, could I make them destroyable? i.e. they absorb only so much for you before they start to break up and bullets get through. if not it doesn't matter, would just mean that people wouldn't be able to camp in one spot. I was ready to resign myself to coding on 2 & 3, but i think that if i can implement the cover system, and then get some generic units (medic, rpg unit...) until I started to crack open the source code, then that could work as well. (unfortunately there'd be no way to save or progress the units.)

Cheers,

Rainbones.

[Zoythrus]

well, many of your ideas wont work with our engine, sorry. but i am all for squad-based combat!

[Rainbones]

Just for clarification, (and to be a bit of a pain in the arse, lol.) which of my ideas won't work, and by won't work do you mean I'll have to script them myself? or that there is no way GAE will ever be able to Include those things without the engine being totally rewritten?

Sorry if i'm Being annoying,

Rainbones.

[John.d.h]

They don't work yet, until you code them.

[Rainbones]

Oh right, I'd pretty much figured out that I'd need to get coding to see some of the more outlandish ideas take form.

Thanks again for all the input,

Rainbones.

[Tununias]

The problem with naming them is units tend to die frequently.  :'(

[Ishmaru]

So sounds scenario based. There may not be lots of player character but there may be lots of enemies. Since you will see your team more often they can be higher poly. Enemies should be lower poly.

The problem with naming them is units tend to die frequently.  :'(

Then its the players job to keep them alive!

[Rainbones]

The problem with naming them is units tend to die frequently.  :'(

Yes, I agree. the normal kind of RTS units do tend to die a lot, but that's why I came up with the idea of giving them extra stats and unique skills that can be purchased. that way, they're a step above the enemy, but then the enemy are a larger number.

So sounds scenario based. There may not be lots of player character but there may be lots of enemies.

I think it will work quite well for multiplayer, with multiple squads, all on the same side, and a computer player controlling the enemy. But people are still allowed to play as the enemy if they wish.

Since you will see your team more often they can be higher poly. Enemies should be lower poly.

Thanks, that's a good idea.

Once again, I thank you guys profusely for all the feedback,

Rainbones.

[Psychedelic_hands]

This sounds really awesome, but one little bit of advice I want to say is don't hard-code everything into the engine, and try to make features as flexible as possible. That way other mods could come out of your work as well, maybe things like RPGs and Warcraft style hero units etc.
Here are some ideas:
*Lua based unit abilities.
*Squad leaders.
*Inventories.
*Obtainable point’s e.g for control the map type game modes.
*Some kind of graphic (in engine) way to show which units are in a squad together, if you're going to have lots of squad’s controllable at once. e.g Different selection circles.

I also suggest talking to silnarm (GAE's leader) about things you want to implement and how you're going to implement them.

Later on when this project gets going and I'm less busy with the mod I'm working on at the moment, this is something I'd love to help out art-wise with.
I'm not the best, but I like to think I'm a capable modeller and hopefully I'll have improved significantly by then

[wciow]

Heres my thoughts on your ideas.

1. Models can be much higher poly count than original Glest. Individual models can have several thousand polies. What you need to work out is  how many units/objects are likely to be rendered at any one time and the overhead from unit particles/shaders. Trail and error is usually the way to go here.
As for a cover system, you can either create a new field (i.e land, air, water, cover) which would need to be specified in the map format or simply use a tileset object as cover and hard code it to give certain units a bonus. Also if you can code destroyable tileset objects that would be awesome 

2. Adding individual names and unit stats to units (RPG style) is gonna be alot of code, if your new to coding in general you might wanna start on some of the easier stuff. Ranks are already in the engine (known as levels) and you can have as many customizeable ranks as you want. Currently units advance through levels with number of kills, but it wouldn't be hard to add some other triggers for levels.

3. This idea seems perfectly doable, just a simple XML file with the squad make-up in it.

[anonymousjim]

1. Some sort of cover system. by this I mean add a skill that provides limited protection to the unit from being fired upon. I know that I will have to make models and animations to this effect, but as I'm making this Mod as a sort of a near future style, I was already planning on making fresh graphics. (Little side-note, because this is squad based, and as such will have less units because of its squad based nature, could the models I make be higher poly than the current Glest models?). Now my question on this point. Will adding the cover system be as simple as tweaking the xml files? or is it what I'm suspecting and I'm going to have to delve into source code for this? (don't mind doing this, but it does mean i'm going to crack on and finish my learning of C++).

This would require code changes, though I think there is some form of stealth system in GAE

2. I want to have each unit nameable, and have their own stats and skills and talents, in accordance with some rules/guidelines that i'm in the middle of making. I'd also like to incorporate some sort of Ranking system. (longer serving people have higher rank.)

Glest already has a rank up system and if you wanted to make named people just make them as different units

3. I'd like to be able to save these squad's to a file, so you're not constantly starting from scratch. This is almost definitely going to require some source code work, I'm guessing?

That would definitely require some code changing

This sounds much like an idea I'm working on at the moment, the squads thing can be done with the pet system in GAE, I'm working on a tactical rts in the style of generals at the mo' and I've also been investigating these very same questions, I gave up the cover system, but I'm going to make squads of units, and units with riot shields, I figured that two riot shields and two gunners behind them would make up for the lack of a cover system.  I was also considering making a campaign with names units, sort of a progressive story following a squad.

[Zoythrus]

ive been wanting squads ingame for the longest time! make sure that you make is flexible enough for a plethora of different ideas to be created.

also, make sure that squads respond as one unit, not tons of "linked" units.

[wyvern]

it would be cool if there was something like the squads in warzone, in warzone 2100, all units are independently produced but can be assigned to a command turret tank if necessary, that way you can create whole brigades, squads and companies to whatever standards you may have, I personally prefer a very organized method of combat so the ability to organize squads is very useful.

[Rainbones]

ok, so from the multitude of replies I can see that there are three way's of looking at 'squad-based'

1. x no. of units grouped together in a squad, where the squad is selectable as a single unit, but the individuals are still calculated... individually. This is the sort of system that would enable units to be grouped into different squads, and maybe assigned to a hotkey like in empire earth, or aoe. This would allow for macro management of large numbers of troops divided into separate squad of varying size.

2. (what i originally meant by 'squad-based') You control just the one squad of individuals, with each individual having unique talents that are customizable and so give that character more gravity. (noone want's to lose a high ranking officer and have to replace him with a newbie.) i guess you could say this idea's like a real-time version of the old x-com games.

3. squads of men created and treat like a single unit, not like no. 1, because the squad action and function like a single unit, but as their health is diminished, the members of the squad are slowly killed off. [think halo wars.]

I like all the ideas, and would certainly be willing to put time in to implement all three systems in Glest, however for the moment i'm going to focus on number 2.

By the way, Psychedelic_hands, I love the idea of having command points to capture, and it's definitely going on my list of features, which i might show you all, if you're interested. It could also pave the way for an awesome Campaign mode, where you have orders like "Capture that LZ!" or, "Protect the scientist!"

2. I want to have each unit nameable, and have their own stats and skills and talents, in accordance with some rules/guidelines that i'm in the middle of making. I'd also like to incorporate some sort of Ranking system. (longer serving people have higher rank.)

Glest already has a rank up system and if you wanted to make named people just make them as different units

Thanks for the heads up anonymousjim.

ive been wanting squads ingame for the longest time! make sure that you make is flexible enough for a plethora of different ideas to be created.

also, make sure that squads respond as one unit, not tons of "linked" units.

I will. (I'm pretty obsessive about ensuring flexibility for others.)

it would be cool if there was something like the squads in warzone, in warzone 2100, all units are independently produced but can be assigned to a command turret tank if necessary, that way you can create whole brigades, squads and companies to whatever standards you may have, I personally prefer a very organized method of combat so the ability to organize squads is very useful.

That's an interesting way of handling squad behavior, however i do like the warzone 2100 unit customization features, where you can choose a chassis, wheels and turret/tool. brilliant system, in my opinion.

ok, one last thought. what if the squad managing was done externally, and the squad member data stored in xml files. then when playing multiplayer, people  choose their squad. they can have many, like factions. then what happens is each system loads their squad, and the other players squad are loaded from over the connection before gameplay just for the game session.

Sorry for the long post, and thanks for reading,

Rainbones.

[John.d.h]

It could also pave the way for an awesome Campaign mode, where you have orders like "Capture that LZ!" or, "Protect the scientist!"

We will all love you forever if you implement a decent campaign mode into Glest.

2. I want to have each unit nameable, and have their own stats and skills and talents, in accordance with some rules/guidelines that i'm in the middle of making. I'd also like to incorporate some sort of Ranking system. (longer serving people have higher rank.)

Glest already has a rank up system and if you wanted to make named people just make them as different units

More info on how that works: https://docs.megaglest.org/GAE/Unit_XML

ok, one last thought. what if the squad managing was done externally, and the squad member data stored in xml files. then when playing multiplayer, people  choose their squad. they can have many, like factions. then what happens is each system loads their squad, and the other players squad are loaded from over the connection before gameplay just for the game session.

One slightly dirty hack for doing unit selection like that is to start with a spawn-point building that can instantly recruit units, and enough resources to recruit however many you'd like for them to have.  That's what I've done in Project Green, and it works alright without any programming.  You might do well to take a look at it, as it is basically a squad-based deathmatch mod for GAE.

[Rainbones]

It could also pave the way for an awesome Campaign mode, where you have orders like "Capture that LZ!" or, "Protect the scientist!"

We will all love you forever if you implement a decent campaign mode into Glest.

2. I want to have each unit nameable, and have their own stats and skills and talents, in accordance with some rules/guidelines that i'm in the middle of making. I'd also like to incorporate some sort of Ranking system. (longer serving people have higher rank.)

Glest already has a rank up system and if you wanted to make named people just make them as different units

More info on how that works: https://docs.megaglest.org/GAE/Unit_XML

ok, one last thought. what if the squad managing was done externally, and the squad member data stored in xml files. then when playing multiplayer, people  choose their squad. they can have many, like factions. then what happens is each system loads their squad, and the other players squad are loaded from over the connection before gameplay just for the game session.

One slightly dirty hack for doing unit selection like that is to start with a spawn-point building that can instantly recruit units, and enough resources to recruit however many you'd like for them to have.  That's what I've done in Project Green, and it works alright without any programming.  You might do well to take a look at it, as it is basically a squad-based deathmatch mod for GAE.

thanks for the link, will check that out asap. and i'll look over project green, but I'm more enthralled with the campaign idea.

Cheers,

Rainbones.

[Rainbones]

New question, would i be able to write a lua file that would update an xml file at the end of a game. (for example change a value and save it so in the next scenario the unit is the same as when you left it.)

Cheers,

Rainbones

[Omega]

New question, would i be able to write a lua file that would update an xml file at the end of a game. (for example change a value and save it so in the next scenario the unit is the same as when you left it.)

Cheers,

Rainbones

You can't do that. Lua's writing options are disabled in Glest for security reasons (otherwise, you could write anything to any file, from ads on the desktop to a full virus).

[Rainbones]

Ah, ok thanks, understandbly so, but still a bit of a bummer. back to the drawing board then... 

Cheers,
Rainbones