Which mods in ingame downloads section?

[titi]

Which mods in ingame downloads section?
I don't want to have everything available in this section and I think we should do some preselection here!
This mods section is more meant for players so we should really not put there mods which are still in alpha state.

Here my suggestion for the minimum requirements:

For techtrees:
The factions should be somehow finished. The AI should know how to play the factions and it should have a state that is somehow playable( and fun to play )

for maps:
enough ressources
no places where units get stuck
maps are easy to do so we can be a bit more critical here

for tilesets:
not too simple please

In general I think it should not be too easy to place a new mod in the download section. By this we also force the people a bit to finish what they started  

[ultifd]

Also, all of these mods needs to be uploaded to something like dropbox...
for Mods:
MG compatible, obviously. No bugs, etc. (So we must try woodsmen again...)I think we'll have to remove munchy until the AI problem is fixed.
for maps:
we'll see, later. Just be careful because there are a lot of different versions of the same map...
for tilesets:
Include the swamp tileset...

[titi]

yes, I also think some things in there currently are maybe not good enough ( not finished enough to be exact )
But I think the they ae good for testing :-P

some things I want to see:
- A bugfixed version of the great "stranded" scenario!  ( my son is waiting for  it   )
- japanese mod
- woodsmen
- dwarfs
- some vbros packs ( the more finished once )
- nihirlian
- a bit later a better working version of dark magic
( I am shure I missed a lot , so this list is not complete! )

the munchy techtree looks promising, but I also vote to remove it until at least the Ai knows how to play it.
Best is its fixed and we keep it 

( The startship troupers mod cannot be included becasue this guy always claims copyrights ...)

[ultifd]

Yeah...for most maps and tilesets thougth, if they are "good enougth" they should probably be included in the "megapack".

Here's what I think that should be included (techs)
-Woodsmen(we must check for any XML errors, I remember there was one with "no be built" skill
-Japanese (If only was a bit more balanced)
-Dwarves
-Elves (0.9.6 but with the resources fix, we must merge)
-Dark Magic
-Vbros mods
-Etc

[Pizza90]

I'd like to see:
- Japanese
- some vbros pack

About the pack as i also suggested in another post i think it would be good to split it so you could download "X" but not "XX" which is in the same pack.

[ultifd]

About the pack as i also suggested in another post i think it would be good to split it so you could download "X" but not "XX" which is in the same pack.

Well, I think we should focus on that after everything else first...I think that'll be a bit complicated. Besides, some factions are not meant to be matched with others anyways.

[Omega]

I say most of the mods in the wiki's Lists. There may be a few of questionable content, but for the most part, I excluded retextured works and stuff. The AI not being able to play a mod is not sufficient criteria for exclusion, as players can still play each other.

[ultifd]

The AI not being able to play a mod is not sufficient criteria for exclusion, as players can still play each other.

I don't know about that...I think it's best for the modder to try to fix that problem first. All Or perhaps we could say that it's for multiplayer only in the descriptions I guess.

- nihirlian

I think it's unique enough, the only problem is that the names are pretty confusing.

( The startship troupers mod cannot be included becasue this guy always claims copyrights ...)

The modder? Or the music? I know about the music...

[-Archmage-]

Quote from: Omega on April 03, 2011, 21:45:58
The AI not being able to play a mod is not sufficient criteria for exclusion, as players can still play each other.
I don't know about that...I think it's best for the modder to try to fix that problem first. All perhaps we could say that it's for multiplayer only in the descriptions I guess.

Quote
( The startship troupers mod cannot be included becasue this guy always claims copyrights ...)
The modder? Or the music? I know about the music...

Use some sort of work-around policy that any mod can be submitted, and only the mod creator may be hassled. Copyrights are in this case ridiculous so let's get around them by all means.

[Omega]

The AI not being able to play a mod is not sufficient criteria for exclusion, as players can still play each other.

I don't know about that...I think it's best for the modder to try to fix that problem first. All Or perhaps we could say that it's for multiplayer only in the descriptions I guess.

Yes, I agree. Particularly since some people may make mods that are in no way similar to how Glest is, such as a simulator or one meant to place emphasis on expansion, which may require a human player, while others may use features the AI cannot, such as subfactions, which were broken to the AI last I saw (mind you, I haven't really checked recent versions, but nobody really uses subfactions except the planned FPM).

[titi]

.... Particularly since some people may make mods that are in no way similar to how Glest is, such as a simulator or one meant to place emphasis on expansion, which may require a human player, while others may use features the AI cannot, such as subfactions, which were broken to the AI last I saw (mind you, I haven't really checked recent versions, but nobody really uses subfactions except the planned FPM).

Thats exactly what I don't want in this mod section! If people want these kind of mods they must install it the "normal" way. I just want mods there which are ready to play. This section is not meant for modders showing their stuff, but for players who want some more....
Maybe in future there can be a section for beta mods or "technical experiments" but this is in no way the intention of this download section.

This will also force the people to
1. finish things!
2. do only things that work!

because this is what the player wants!

[John.d.h]

Thats exactly what I don't want in this mod section! If people want these kind of mods they must install it the "normal" way. I just want mods there which are ready to play. This section is not meant for modders showing their stuff, but for players who want some more....
Maybe in future there can be a section for beta mods or "technical experiments" but this is in no way the intention of this download section.

This will also force the people to
1. finish things!
2. do only things that work!

because this is what the player wants!

Have we actually asked the players what they want?  Or is this just what you personally, as a player, want?

I think that what you're suggesting would discourage modders from trying new things and experimenting (Why make a new mod that nobody is going to play?), and that just makes all mods almost the same.  Where's the fun in that, for the modder or the player?  If there is a mod that plays the same as Magitech, I don't bother downloading it because I already have that same experience with the Magitech I already have.  We should be making mods that explore new and exciting ideas, not the same bland cookie-cutter copies of what we already have.

Glest is designed to be extensible.

[-Archmage-]

Thats exactly what I don't want in this mod section! If people want these kind of mods they must install it the "normal" way. I just want mods there which are ready to play. This section is not meant for modders showing their stuff, but for players who want some more....
Maybe in future there can be a section for beta mods or "technical experiments" but this is in no way the intention of this download section.

This will also force the people to
1. finish things!
2. do only things that work!

because this is what the player wants!

Have we actually asked the players what they want?  Or is this just what you personally, as a player, want?

I think that what you're suggesting would discourage modders from trying new things and experimenting (Why make a new mod that nobody is going to play?), and that just makes all mods almost the same.  Where's the fun in that, for the modder or the player?  If there is a mod that plays the same as Magitech, I don't bother downloading it because I already have that same experience with the Magitech I already have.  We should be making mods that explore new and exciting ideas, not the same bland cookie-cutter copies of what we already have.

Glest is designed to be extensible.

+1 John.

[wciow]

It depends whether you want a true mod or an expansion to the original magitech. MG adds lots of new features on the code side, but the game play experience remains very similar to original magitech, basically an expanded version with more factions/maps/tilesets.

There have been some interesting mini mods made for GAE/MG with lots of potential for a very different gameplay experience, but most of these have been little more than tech demos to showcase a paticular feature. The new stranded scenario is a good example here, it is a good advert for Lua scenarios but could be expanded to be much more.

The big problem for mods that differ more than a little from the magitech style is that the AI becomes totally useless. The AI was specifically hard coded to play magitech, so unless the plans for exposing the AI to lua scripts happens soon anything new or different becomes more or less unplayable in singleplayer. One good example is Mr War's imperial mod. He is the first modder to really use the GAE water units,awesome for multiplayer but of course the AI will never work out how to transport units across water.

In conclusion if Softcoder/Titi want to restrict MG to adding only stable/finished magitech-esque content then that is their decision. Modding of the experimental kind will contine on this board as always. I know the MG guys have been working hard to build multiplayer community and the more people who play MG the more who will eventually filter through to modding here.  

[tomreyn]

I think that what you're suggesting would discourage modders from trying new things and experimenting (Why make a new mod that nobody is going to play?), and that just makes all mods almost the same.

I don't really agree with the conclusion that, because titi wants those mods which will be presented in the in-game Mods menu to be somewhat stable and playable, they cannot be unusual, special or innovative. I don't think mod developers will stop experimenting with new features just because, to have their mod finally listed there, it has to be playable. I think the requirement to have something mature before it goes into the download menu simply doesn't impact the way mods are developed at all, other than, maybe, some more may actually become mature in the end and not remain half-baken (which I, and many players, would appreciate much).

[ultifd]

I think we could include those type of mods...we could just state what problems they must have. Mods should be tested and etc...and they should work somehow.

Thats exactly what I don't want in this mod section! If people want these kind of mods they must install it the "normal" way. I just want mods there which are ready to play. This section is not meant for modders showing their stuff, but for players who want some more....
Maybe in future there can be a section for beta mods or "technical experiments" but this is in no way the intention of this download section.

This will also force the people to
1. finish things!
2. do only things that work!

because this is what the player wants!

Have we actually asked the players what they want?  Or is this just what you personally, as a player, want?

That is true. Do you know who are the "megaglest players" though? But, honestly though, if you're talking about yourself(ves)...you guys are really just modders, not players. Maybe just play one full multiplayer game of MegaGlest, then you guys would be entitled to call yourselves that. Until we have issues with the MDC, it should be fine. This will only be a real issue after/during the later part of the merge, anyways.

[Omega]

+9001 John. I propose we let players vote which mods go into the MDC by making a list (I also propose we use the wiki's premade lists, found at Mods/List, Tileset/List, Maps/List, and Scenarios/List respectively) and letting players decide which to exclude from the MDC (in all honesty, I personally think everything in the wiki's list pages should be in the MDC). However, this is just for existing mods. For future mods, we would just vote as normal, with majority rules, version specific, perhaps with a minimum number of votes required from reputable users to prevent the possibility of making fake accounts to cheat your mod in (polls are insecure).

[titi]

I just wanted to mention that it is exactly like wciow stated!
If a mod really gets a state that people play it( in multiplayer ) it will be included. But I will not include techdemos or complete unplayable alpha demos there

The biggest problem that I see at the moment is that people who have more finished mods don't want to be in the download section. I don't really understand it, but it seems to happen !?!
Look at the japanese mod, he does not want it there yet  

I can imagine that there will be similar problems for other mods too like sstld, nihirlian or annex conquer.
Typically total conversion mods which are made with a lot of effort which want to be their own games...

[Hagekura]

Oops . Don't get me wrong herr, I really want to my mod to be in MG's direct download section, but for now, I just want to do some polishing before it goes on direct downloading.
I'm not satisfied with the curret japanese mod's state to allow everyone download it from in-game menu.
the update won't take so long, so wait please.

[titi]

okok good to hear that, in this case I really got you wrong then!
Sorry

[John.d.h]

I just wanted to mention that it is exactly like wciow stated!
If a mod really gets a state that people play it( in multiplayer ) it will be included. But I will not include techdemos or complete unplayable alpha demos there

I guess this depends on what we define as playable, but I don't see a problem with including a mod that works fine except for the AI as long as it is marked as such (maybe have a checkbox for showing/hiding them in the list?).  Glest's AI is very picky about what it will work with, and it doesn't even handle Magitech very well sometimes.  What's the problem with a multiplayer-only mod for a game that is mostly(?) focused on multiplayer?  That is, unless the issue is just the effort and resources required for uploading, managing, and storing the extra mods.  Of course, this isn't really a big deal to me, since my only current mod release has working AI.

I can imagine that there will be similar problems for other mods too like sstld, nihirlian or annex conquer.
Typically total conversion mods which are made with a lot of effort which want to be their own games...

The author of Annex had all kinds of questions about licensing, Creative Commons, etc., when we first talked on DeviantArt, so of course it's his choice whether he wants to share or not, but maybe we just need to encourage/educate him a little.

Speaking of which, in the add-ons' description in the downloads section, maybe we should require that the authors must list licensing terms (and maybe only CC or similar are allowed ).

[Omega]

Speaking of which, in the add-ons' description in the downloads section, maybe we should require that the authors must list licensing terms (and maybe only CC or similar are allowed ).

Support. I say only free licenses that allow modification should be allowed, such as the CC licenses, the MIT license, GPL, etc;

[softcoder]

We now have the description and Preview images working with the latest svn version, which should give a little detail about each mod entity before a user downloads the whole thing.

[titi]

and beside of this its the way how mod authors can credit themselves, which I think is very important because they did all the work!