custom doodads (objects)

[treba]

hey ho all.

i'm aware of the fact that for the next time, there won't be any new features in the near future, but i already want to mention one idea for after the merge. as soon as there is a new forum section for the merge, this topic can be moved there.

so, i thought about a option in the map editor to add custom doodads. you just specifie the size of the doodad and whether it blocks units or not, and give it a unique name/id. the engine will lookup whether the template contains the given doodad, and, if not, will just ignore it / won't draw any model for it.

of course, that would need a new mapformat again, but i don't see any bigger problem besides that. on the other side, everybody wanting to make great scenarios with many different doodads has the possability for it, just with some little changes to the used tileset.
changes to
what do you think about it?

[ultifd]

Interesting idea... Doodads? like statues? 

[treba]

exactly.

[Psychedelic_hands]

This is already possible with GAE's add-on folder... (or can't they can be just placed in the scenario folder?) But I know it will work with the add-ons folder.

It's not exactly what you mean, but it achieves exactly the same thing. Just change a map object/unit model with whatever you want, put that and the map you want in with the scenario.... For example:    
User>glestadv>addons>cool_scenario>maps>cool_map.gmb
                                                  >scenarios>cool_scenario>cool_scenario.xml
                                                  >tilesets>forest>models>doodad.g3d

You can pretty much do what ever you like with the addons, once the merge happens every mod will be able to do it.
(I'm pretty sure it can be done an even easier way, but I'm unsure at the moment)

[treba]

yeah you are right, it's possible to replace the model of a doodad. but that is replacing, not adding. the amount of different doodads is limited to a small number.
the scenarios i am thinking about need many different doodads. there is also the way to use the same doodad with more than one model for it, so the model gets randomly choosen by the engine (like for trees). but then, i never know exactly how the map looks like in the end

[ElimiNator]

You can do that in MG too, but like you said that is not what you want.

[Psychedelic_hands]

yeah you are right, it's possible to replace the model of a doodad. but that is replacing, not adding. the amount of different doodads is limited to a small number.
the scenarios i am thinking about need many different doodads. there is also the way to use the same doodad with more than one model for it, so the model gets randomly choosen by the engine (like for trees). but then, i never know exactly how the map looks like in the end

rrr... please stop refering to them as doodads, lol.

I still quite don't understand you, can you please be more specific?
Though I'm sure you could achieve what you want if you just got creative, say you make a new faction with all the "doodads" you want in it then place the "doodads" around the map. But be sure to set the faction to the same team as you..... If that's what you want with your... rrrr. doodads....

You can do that in MG too, but like you said that is not what you want.

How so?

[ElimiNator]

In the scenario folder you can have a tile-set called "your-tile-set" and modify the statue/hangman/rock/ect to different models that you want. Then point your scenario to that tile-set.

[Psychedelic_hands]

In the scenario folder you can have a tile-set called "your-tile-set" and modify the statue/hangman/rock/ect to different models that you want. Then point your scenario to that tile-set.

Ah right, but do you need to have the whole tileset in the scenario folder, or just the changed model? I thought you needed PhysFS to do that.

[Omega]

The word you are looking for is "object".

[ElimiNator]

In the scenario folder you can have a tile-set called "your-tile-set" and modify the statue/hangman/rock/ect to different models that you want. Then point your scenario to that tile-set.

Ah right, but do you need to have the whole tileset in the scenario folder, or just the changed model? I thought you needed PhysFS to do that.

You need a whole new tile-set, yes.

[treba]

rrr... please stop refering to them as doodads, lol.

in blizzard games, the things i mean are called "doodads". i thought it's a common term for them. but, if you like so, i will refer to them as "neutral objects"

I still quite don't understand you, can you please be more specific?
Though I'm sure you could achieve what you want if you just got creative, say you make a new faction with all the "doodads" you want in it then place the "doodads" around the map. But be sure to set the faction to the same team as you..... If that's what you want with your... rrrr. doodads....

i want to be able to place many different "neutral objects".
maybe your idea is a possible solution (can i make units invulnerable and unattackable? because i can't set every player in the same team and don't want the ai to attack the >neutral< objects), but still, it would be much harder to create a map this way, because i would have place all my neutral objects with lua during the startup.
that's....sub-optimal bacause i don't have a general overview over my map...thought ok as a workaround.

[Omega]

rrr... please stop refering to them as doodads, lol.

in blizzard games, the things i mean are called "doodads". i thought it's a common term for them. but, if you like so, i will refer to them as "neutral objects"

I still quite don't understand you, can you please be more specific?
Though I'm sure you could achieve what you want if you just got creative, say you make a new faction with all the "doodads" you want in it then place the "doodads" around the map. But be sure to set the faction to the same team as you..... If that's what you want with your... rrrr. doodads....

i want to be able to place many different "neutral objects".
maybe your idea is a possible solution (can i make units invulnerable and unattackable? because i can't set every player in the same team and don't want the ai to attack the >neutral< objects), but still, it would be much harder to create a map this way, because i would have place all my neutral objects with lua during the startup.
that's....sub-optimal bacause i don't have a general overview over my map...thought ok as a workaround.

Wait, attack?

[treba]

Wait, attack?

what is your question?
if i use a player for neutral objects, like a cpu whos ai gets disabled at the beginning of the game, this player cannot be in two teams at the same time. so in a normal game, where there are at least two opposing teams or players, one side will attack it.

[softcoder]

No-one will attack a unit with an empty cellmap! That could be used to display models that do nothing.

[Omega]

There's still bugs with the AI swarming to units with 0 size, as though they were trying to attack it, though...

[treba]

ok, so to be able to create blocking neutral objects, for example houses etc., we would need a "invulnerable" parameter or skill (athought i would still prefer to be able to place "real" neutral objects ).
i will create a new thread for that.

[-Archmage-]

Give the neutral objects health and a destruction model and you've got yourself a start to a destructible environment!

[treba]

the point is, that i want them to be not destructible. but blocking. like rocks. that's why i wanted to have custom neutral objects in the editor.

[softcoder]

No in MG enemy units no longer swarm to them, see Elims scenario (The military one) where he lets you 'duck down' and enemies cannot see you.

[-Archmage-]

the point is, that i want them to be not destructible. but blocking. like rocks. that's why i wanted to have custom neutral objects in the editor.

Destructible, and non-destructible, you could have both. But the AI wouldn't attack a destructible neutral object unless it was considered 'in the way'. You could make a whole destructible village, and have a few indestructible huts mixed in for kicks and ragequits.

With destructible AND non-destructible map object you could do tons of cool things.

[Ishmaru]

Soo... You essentially want to be able to add custom tileset objects more than whats already there. the only problem is that it changes the map format when u do...

[treba]

exactly