Author Topic: Project Red: official announcement  (Read 35216 times)

John.d.h

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Project Red: official announcement
« on: 29 April 2011, 10:12:07 »
Since there has been a lot of discussion about this mod going on in various parts of the forum, and since a lot of work is actually getting done now, I figure it's as good a time as any to give it its own thread (if only to consolidate the discussion).

Thus, I officially announce Project Red.  So, here's the what, who, when, why, and how of it all.

What is Project Red?
Project Red is an effort to compile some of the best factions available from the Glest community and enhance them in hopes of becoming the flagship tech of Glest Advanced Engine.  Existing units will be modified to take advantage of GAE-specific features (such as emanations), new units will be added where necessary (e.g. boats), and factions will be tested and balanced against each other.  Essentially, the idea is to create GAE's equivalent of the Megapack.

What is its purpose?
Currently, I believe that one of the reasons why MegaGlest is more popular than GAE is that it's a full game packaged with a full suite of content.  That is, it has its own factions that are under constant development, and thus it takes advantage of all its features as they become available.  In contrast, GAE is an engine whose potential is largely untapped because of a lack of content.  GAE does not have this same side-by-side development process that MG has, so players don't actually get to experience the power and flexibility of the engine (especially if they don't go looking for mods).  Project Red intends to remedy that.

Obviously the upcoming merger changes things significantly, but I really am not looking forward to seeing a new Glest with the Megapack as its flagship.  While useful, there are many things I don't like about the Megapack.  "What, like you could do better?"  With the help of others, I plan to. ;D

Who will benefit from this?
By growing alongside the engine and incorporating as many of GAE's new features as possible, this should bring a benefit to everyone involved.  Players will be able to do more, giving them a more dynamic and enjoyable gaming experience due to the new gameplay features.  Modders will be able to become part of an ambitious project and get the opportunity to show off their work without having to generate an entire faction or tileset single-handedly.  The GAE programmers will have more people using new features as they are developed, giving them greater playtesting (and debugging) than ever before.  The GAE project as a whole gets new content and screenshots to show off for publicity, hopefully attracting more players.  After the merger, these benefits should apply equally to the new Glest.  The larger game development community gets new content that they are free to use in their own FOSS projects.

Why is it called Project Red?
Many developers try to come up with a name that encompasses the main idea of the project, and it ends up restricting their progress as they try to maintain that original idea, instead of exploring new possibilities.  I want this to be more open-ended and flexible, so I picked something arbitrary.

What factions are currently planned?
Magic, Tech, Dwarves, Elves, Undead, Woodsmen.  I selected these factions because they have high artistic quality, a coherent fantasy theme, and should appeal to players and modders alike.  Factions may be added or dropped as time goes by, depending on scope and constraints.  gAMeboy has shown interest in revamping his Elves to include units with GAE features, such as boats, and Mr War is already working on a version of Tech that includes boats, so I'll hold off on working on those two factions.  Additionally, wciow has stated that he's taking another look at the Dwarves and Undead, so I plan to be in touch with these modders in the next couple days and hopefully we can all paddle in the same direction.  My first priority right now is Magic, since I'm fairly sure nobody else has dibs on that.

How much work are we talking about here?
That is very subject to change, but I'm currently looking at one to four units per faction, and some existing units could be improved, so a ballpark estimate would be that it's roughly equivalent to making one complete faction.  This is a very rough estimate.

Why don't you include my favorite faction?
A few people have asked about including Japan or other factions.  While I personally feel it would clash with the overall fantasy theme the project has so far, I'm leaving the possibility open, as multiple people have said they want it.  What it really comes down to is whether or not someone is willing to put forth the effort to make it a reality.  Factions that are clearly not up to the standard of quality or don't fit the prevailing stylistic themes of the project at the time will not be part of the official project, but there's nothing stopping anyone from making them into a compatible add-on.  I don't pretend to have a monopoly on anything here, and I expect that others will merge other factions into Project Red to really make it their own, in keeping with the true spirit of Free and Open Source software.

Who will be working on this?
While I'll be putting a great deal of effort into this myself, I've been in touch with other members of the Glest community who I would like to work with and who I feel would be beneficial to the project, and I plan to contact more whenever it becomes appropriate to do so.

How can I help?
If you're skilled at modeling, texturing, animation, sound recording, voice acting, and/or icon making, then this project will probably have a use for you.  If not, there are less-technical areas that could use contributors to take some of the stress off of others -- things like XML and wiki editing.  Texture photographers and concept artists may also be useful.  Barring any of that, we'll be needing playtesters for balancing and quality assurance.  We reserve the right to deny any volunteers who are unpleasant, and art contributions that aren't useful or aren't good enough will not make their way into the project's development.  This helps to ensure that this project will be fun and rewarding for the developers.

Under what license will the content be released?
Currently, the plan is to release all content generated from Project Red under the Creative Commons Attribution Share-Alike 3.0 license (allowing later versions).

When will this all be finished?
It will take as long as it takes, but hopefully that won't be egregiously long.  I can't predict the future and I don't like deadlines, so I'm under no pretense of making one.

Why aren't there any screens yet?
Projects and exams.  I'll get around to it shortly. :)

Where will development be hosted?
The Project Red Github page is always up to date, including source files.

I have another question!
Post it below and I'll do my best to indulge your curiosity.
« Last Edit: 17 December 2011, 02:27:00 by John.d.h »

will

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Re: Project Red: official announcement
« Reply #1 on: 29 April 2011, 11:35:07 »
Where will development be stored?

Why don't you put your development in the open on github during development?

John.d.h

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Re: Project Red: official announcement
« Reply #2 on: 29 April 2011, 13:37:40 »
Where will development be stored?
I have a copy on my hard drive, one on an external drive, and one on Dropbox.  Psychedelic Hands also has a copy shared with him, and now I have it up on github as per your request.  There is plenty of redundancy in case my house burns down and I get eaten by an alligator.

Quote
Why don't you put your development in the open on github during development?
Good idea.  Done. 
Code: [Select]
[url=http://git://github.com/johndh/Project-Red.git]git://github.com/johndh/Project-Red.git[/url]
« Last Edit: 7 April 2016, 05:32:40 by filux »

will

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Re: Project Red: official announcement
« Reply #3 on: 29 April 2011, 13:52:02 »
For browsers: https://github.com/johndh/Project-Red :)

Everyone else do this too, super cool.

John.d.h

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Re: Project Red: official announcement
« Reply #4 on: 29 April 2011, 15:33:58 »
https://github.com/johndh/Project-Red now includes wiki entries for how to access the repo, and project conventions.

wyvern

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Re: Project Red: official announcement
« Reply #5 on: 29 April 2011, 17:07:42 »
Should I stick GW-pack into this project, I have several new tech models and have also worked on tech ships. I think GW-pack could gain a lot from GAE as I have plans for transport units. Plus, my G3d exporter doesn't work and I can't get it to work so this way I'll get the whole thing done, placed in GAE and looking decent after over a year of little visible improvement.

John.d.h

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Re: Project Red: official announcement
« Reply #6 on: 29 April 2011, 17:26:05 »
Should I stick GW-pack into this project, I have several new tech models and have also worked on tech ships.
I'm certainly interested in taking a look.  If you want to upload them for me, I'll see if I can find a place for them. :)

wyvern

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Re: Project Red: official announcement
« Reply #7 on: 29 April 2011, 17:56:53 »
Ok, I'll hopefully have them uploaded tomorrow, The models I currently have done is the following w/ out animations.
Mechanon worker
Helicopter
flame tank
tank
artillery tank
heavy battleship
rocket ship
stone tower
Transport
commando(partially done)
Rocket wagon(Finished but minus horse)
Airship bomber
Wingflapper fighter(un-textured)
Pretty much, if I had decent animating abilities I could finish but being unable to do so I have just textured and completed the models.
For magic I don't have anything except for some modified mages and am working on the marauders as of now

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Re: Project Red: official announcement
« Reply #8 on: 30 April 2011, 02:33:04 »
If this is aiming to be the flagship of GAE I think it needs to rise above the average animation quality standards, which are (frankly) very low. :|
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Re: Project Red: official announcement
« Reply #9 on: 30 April 2011, 03:21:45 »
It will be good once this merges with MG though, and if someones willing  they can do good anims on my models :)

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Re: Project Red: official announcement
« Reply #10 on: 30 April 2011, 06:47:59 »
Just worth noting that we should avoid putting in too many factions (and if some, such as tech, are expanded, don't over expand, for both balance and anti-bloating). The Megapack already suffers from being too large, which makes it slow to download, slow to load in game, and heavy on memory. For optimal audience, it should be fast to download, fast to load, and easy enough on memory for everyone (even those with computers that belong in museums) can play.
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ultifd

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Re: Project Red: official announcement
« Reply #11 on: 30 April 2011, 07:04:06 »
Hmm...good luck.

Just worth noting that we should avoid putting in too many factions (and if some, such as tech, are expanded, don't over expand, for both balance and anti-bloating). The Megapack already suffers from being too large, which makes it slow to download, slow to load in game, and heavy on memory. For optimal audience, it should be fast to download, fast to load, and easy enough on memory for everyone (even those with computers that belong in museums) can play.
Sorry but for the average person, it's not slow to download. It's also doesn't take a lot of time to load it either...remember only the factions that are used are loaded. Memory use...what? That's really untrue...

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Re: Project Red: official announcement
« Reply #12 on: 30 April 2011, 13:24:50 »
I agree that the megapack is bloated. It's quality does not match it's filesize in my opinion.

John: Maybe 4 factions instead of 6 would be a wise decision. :| Oh, and with Constellus we're shooting for the flagship title, so we are now rivals! :D
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will

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Re: Project Red: official announcement
« Reply #13 on: 30 April 2011, 14:02:17 »
I dislike the 'frank' dissing of others efforts.

When the merge happens, all mods will be downloadable.  People can choose what to play; unofficial sanctioning by some self-chosen elite will not be necessary.

So, with project red on github, it is easy for everyone to collaborate - git works for artists as well as programmers.

So Wyvern, for example, creates a git-hub account and creates a GW project there.      He gets backup and hosting (you can at any time get any version as a tar.gz or zip - ideal for any mod installer surely) and others can fork, enhance, offer changes etc.

John can choose to link to Wyvern's project at any time, or borrow and adapt bits; anyone can start a git thread in the forum if we want to go into the various ways to link together things, its very flexible.

We are all so happy that programmers adapt and extend the original glest code; we should be equally sharing about the art too - to have someone borrow or adapt your unit, even without seeking permission, is the sincerest flattery.

I think github is a major step forward and maturing of the glest community.  Thx John!

Omega

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Re: Project Red: official announcement
« Reply #14 on: 30 April 2011, 17:07:45 »
Hmm...good luck.

Just worth noting that we should avoid putting in too many factions (and if some, such as tech, are expanded, don't over expand, for both balance and anti-bloating). The Megapack already suffers from being too large, which makes it slow to download, slow to load in game, and heavy on memory. For optimal audience, it should be fast to download, fast to load, and easy enough on memory for everyone (even those with computers that belong in museums) can play.
Sorry but for the average person, it's not slow to download. It's also doesn't take a lot of time to load it either...remember only the factions that are used are loaded. Memory use...what? That's really untrue...
Indeed, I do recall someone complaining about the megapack though because there was so many textures, etc to load from all those different factions that it was hard on their computer.

And yeah, apparently most people get pretty good internet. Is this true?
Code: [Select]
[img]http://digg.com/story/r/Average_broadband_speed_by_country_graph[/img]Man, where's my share? And interesting to note that canada is well above USA (and well behind Japan).
« Last Edit: 26 September 2016, 15:11:21 by filux »
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Re: Project Red: official announcement
« Reply #15 on: 30 April 2011, 17:29:47 »
And yeah, apparently most people get pretty good internet. Is this true?
Code: [Select]
[img]http://digg.com/story/r/Average_broadband_speed_by_country_graph[/img]Man, where's my share? And interesting to note that canada is well above USA (and well behind Japan).

everyone! we're going to Japan!  :P
« Last Edit: 26 September 2016, 15:11:39 by filux »

John.d.h

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Re: Project Red: official announcement
« Reply #16 on: 30 April 2011, 19:13:12 »
If size is much of a concern, I can make it more modular.  For example, project_red_magitech.7z, project_red_dwarves.7z, etc., since GAE automagically merges them together at run time.  Also, the number of factions is really dependent on a lot of external factors.  Currently I'm trying to find out what wciow's plans for the Dwarves and Undead are, and what gAMeboy is doing with the Elves, because I don't want to step on either one's toes or anything, and I'd rather not duplicate efforts.  Also, the scope of the project may change as time goes by, depending on how much help and how much time I have.  Thus, the first step is Magic, and we should know what's going on by the time that's done.

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Re: Project Red: official announcement
« Reply #17 on: 30 April 2011, 21:45:11 »
if your starting with magic, I might be able to help, by the way, have you considered not giving the magic faction ships and instead give it stuff like the kraken, sea serpent and mermen

John.d.h

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Re: Project Red: official announcement
« Reply #18 on: 30 April 2011, 21:51:54 »
Okay, so I've conferred with wciow, and I've got the green light for delving into the Dwarves.  The Undead aren't high on the priorities list, but hopefully there will be time to get to them later.

if your starting with magic, I might be able to help, by the way, have you considered not giving the magic faction ships and instead give it stuff like the kraken, sea serpent and mermen
Why float when you can teleport? ;D

wciow

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Re: Project Red: official announcement
« Reply #19 on: 30 April 2011, 22:01:58 »
Well most of the magic faction can teleport (or be teleported) across water, but what if the enemy has ships in the water that are bombarding your base from range? You need a unit which can go get them in the water.

I think that there should be a Kraken unit for Magic, not sure wether it should be summoned directly by a summoner/archmage or whether it could be like the behemoth ritual. An initiate could build a kraken statue or similar in the shallows which could be turned into a kraken.
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Zoythrus

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Re: Project Red: official announcement
« Reply #20 on: 30 April 2011, 22:09:40 »
not a bad idea, wciow

John.d.h

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Re: Project Red: official announcement
« Reply #21 on: 30 April 2011, 22:35:47 »
Well most of the magic faction can teleport (or be teleported) across water, but what if the enemy has ships in the water that are bombarding your base from range? You need a unit which can go get them in the water.
What's wrong with the Dragon?

wyvern

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Re: Project Red: official announcement
« Reply #22 on: 30 April 2011, 22:39:12 »
Its aerial, and you gotta admit, it would be cool to have a kraken smashing ships with a seaserpent. Sea serpents could be cheap and krakens like a hero ship killer unit

Zoythrus

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Re: Project Red: official announcement
« Reply #23 on: 30 April 2011, 22:41:28 »
actually, i prefer John's idea, just give the dragon a bonus against ships

wyvern

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Re: Project Red: official announcement
« Reply #24 on: 30 April 2011, 22:49:06 »
making everything teleportable seems kinda cheap, but I don't mind.