Author Topic: Project Red: official announcement  (Read 35321 times)

John.d.h

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Re: Project Red: official announcement
« Reply #75 on: 18 September 2011, 23:04:20 »
Just to let you know I'm not dead yet:


I've been on a bit of hiatus due to various stuff IRL, but I've managed to get a few things done.  I'm still more than willing to accept contributions, though. ;)

Tech is probably the closest to being done, but still needs a couple more units.  Magic still needs two new mages, and the Renewer needs a better texture.  The other factions have barely been touched.

Perplesso

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Re: Project Red: official announcement
« Reply #76 on: 25 September 2011, 11:11:33 »
I'm VERY interested in this project's idea, because there are TOO MANY interesting factions specifically designed for MG, using its specific features, so GAE is never played at its full potential.

My proposal could be this: may Project Red become the root for a set of subprojects porting ALL MG-specific factions to GAE?

For example, I've already developed a GAE port of Sci-Fi Pack (even if it lacks Alliance faction yet): could it become part of this project, obviously after being authorized by authors of MG version?

will

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Re: Project Red: official announcement
« Reply #77 on: 25 September 2011, 12:01:17 »
As long as you abide by the license terms, you don't need to ask the sci-fi pack's author for permission.

I'm sure in this case you even get their blessing.

John.d.h

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Re: Project Red: official announcement
« Reply #78 on: 25 September 2011, 20:02:37 »
My proposal could be this: may Project Red become the root for a set of subprojects porting ALL MG-specific factions to GAE?
If you want to grab a great faction like Woodsmen or Undead and GAE-ify them, I'll happily include it in Project Red, but that faction will have to be your pet project (not mine) because I just can't perform that much work myself.  I'm already struggling to make much progress on just three factions.  Regarding the Sci-fi pack, I think it might be better to include that separately, maybe under a meta-project that would include sub-projects for Project Red, Sci-fi pack, and whatever else, since it would have to be in a different tech tree.  I'd certainly like to see more mods taking advantage of GAE's awesome features, but I have a lot of work to do already.

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Re: Project Red: official announcement
« Reply #79 on: 26 September 2011, 17:56:50 »
My proposal could be this: may Project Red become the root for a set of subprojects porting ALL MG-specific factions to GAE?
If you want to grab a great faction like Woodsmen or Undead and GAE-ify them, I'll happily include it in Project Red, but that faction will have to be your pet project (not mine) because I just can't perform that much work myself.  I'm already struggling to make much progress on just three factions.  Regarding the Sci-fi pack, I think it might be better to include that separately, maybe under a meta-project that would include sub-projects for Project Red, Sci-fi pack, and whatever else, since it would have to be in a different tech tree.  I'd certainly like to see more mods taking advantage of GAE's awesome features, but I have a lot of work to do already.
Of course, ported version would start as a new project, run in parallel with original MG mod, by different developers: so, porting will be zero cost for original developers and would add value to GAE but also to mod itself. Imperial faction for example uses this policy.
And ok, I'll give a look to these two factions; in related forums they're presented as compatible with both MG and GAE, but I'll try if compatibility is still full.

Omega

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Re: Project Red: official announcement
« Reply #80 on: 26 September 2011, 18:40:32 »
My proposal could be this: may Project Red become the root for a set of subprojects porting ALL MG-specific factions to GAE?
If you want to grab a great faction like Woodsmen or Undead and GAE-ify them, I'll happily include it in Project Red, but that faction will have to be your pet project (not mine) because I just can't perform that much work myself.  I'm already struggling to make much progress on just three factions.  Regarding the Sci-fi pack, I think it might be better to include that separately, maybe under a meta-project that would include sub-projects for Project Red, Sci-fi pack, and whatever else, since it would have to be in a different tech tree.  I'd certainly like to see more mods taking advantage of GAE's awesome features, but I have a lot of work to do already.
Of course, ported version would start as a new project, run in parallel with original MG mod, by different developers: so, porting will be zero cost for original developers and would add value to GAE but also to mod itself. Imperial faction for example uses this policy.
And ok, I'll give a look to these two factions; in related forums they're presented as compatible with both MG and GAE, but I'll try if compatibility is still full.
Support; but you might want to consider making a new thread.
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Psychedelic_hands

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Re: Project Red: official announcement
« Reply #81 on: 28 September 2011, 06:18:38 »
Sounds awesome Perplesso, I'm not much good in code but if you want any new units I'll be glad to help :)

And sorry John about not finishing the healer, I kinda haven't been doing anything for awhile and just really getting back into it. I'll get to it when I have the chance.
« Last Edit: 28 September 2011, 06:27:42 by Psychedelic_hands »

Perplesso

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Re: Project Red: official announcement
« Reply #82 on: 28 September 2011, 18:16:18 »
A small update: I've tested Undead in GAE, and it does NOT work in its original format. I've corrected a couple of incompatibility issues, it works well now.

John.d.h

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Re: Project Red: official announcement
« Reply #83 on: 29 September 2011, 01:33:19 »
A small update: I've tested Undead in GAE, and it does NOT work in its original format. I've corrected a couple of incompatibility issues, it works well now.
Just to be clear, are you simply going through mods and correcting anything that doesn't work on GAE, or are you planning to add GAE-centric elements to them like I'm doing with this project?

And sorry John about not finishing the healer, I kinda haven't been doing anything for awhile and just really getting back into it. I'll get to it when I have the chance.
No problem, man.  I've been swamped with outside stuff too.  All he really needs is a texture, since he's already animated.  Well, he also needs a voice and some sound effects, but I've actually got a volunteer from OGA assigned to doing voices for me.  His first priority is going to be the Dwarves, though, so if you've got a decent mic I won't say no. ;D

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Re: Project Red: official announcement
« Reply #84 on: 29 September 2011, 17:03:05 »
A small update: I've tested Undead in GAE, and it does NOT work in its original format. I've corrected a couple of incompatibility issues, it works well now.
Just to be clear, are you simply going through mods and correcting anything that doesn't work on GAE, or are you planning to add GAE-centric elements to them like I'm doing with this project?

My idea was first of all making mods work well in GAE, keeping them as updated as original versions, then starting adding new GAE-specific features. My programming skills are good, so I won't have problems in creating new unit definitions or enhancing existing ones, techtree, skills and so on. However, my artistic skills are next to zero, so I would need help in 3D modeling.

will

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Re: Project Red: official announcement
« Reply #85 on: 29 September 2011, 17:48:56 »
How about fixing GAE to allow float emission rates?

(Its often the only incompatibility)

Perplesso

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Re: Project Red: official announcement
« Reply #86 on: 29 September 2011, 20:01:24 »
How about fixing GAE to allow float emission rates?

(Its often the only incompatibility)

Another big problem is power-of-two for icons and textures. If these are solved, ALL mods would work as-is also in GAE. And if they worked as-is, they can be GAE-powered immediately, without spending time "correcting" them. And resizing a lot of icons is frustrating :D

These (small) problems do not exist in MG. Even if merging will never happen, at least their solution could be taken from MG code?

Mr War

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Re: Project Red: official announcement
« Reply #87 on: 29 September 2011, 22:03:01 »
animate and child particles are a prob also. GAE will ignore HUD and loading screens (?) etc, Multiple animations per skill. Tile sets cannot have non-rotated objects. There are plenty of differences, at least with MG 3.5.3 which is why I stick to dev in MG and only port after release.

John.d.h

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Re: Project Red: official announcement
« Reply #88 on: 29 September 2011, 23:40:05 »
I consider MG's allowance of non-power-of-two textures to be a defect, not a feature. :look:

Omega

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Re: Project Red: official announcement
« Reply #89 on: 30 September 2011, 06:26:45 »
I gotta agree with John. For the record, it should be noted that GAE used to support non-power of 2 images, and technically, could be modified to do so again, but the entire reason this restriction was added is to hard-force modders to use such images. You see, several older graphics cards are completely unable to use non-power of 2 images, effectively crashing. I don't think the singling out of that (albeit small) minority just to cut a few bytes from the image size is worth it.

GAE is technically capable of doing more advanced HUD stuff than MG, and can match the loading screens, it just has to be done differently. As well, it should be noted that while GAE may not have animated particles, etc, it has a slew of other stuff that balances it out. Finally, as a note, changing the emission rate to a float value (currently an int) as well as allowing animated particle projectiles (the code for animated models is already heavily used; and could also be adapted for tilesets) is reasonably easy, not to mention Will released patches of his changes, so I'm confident that GAE will eventually get around to it, but they've got their arms full with the finishing touches for 0.4, first.
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Re: Project Red: official announcement
« Reply #90 on: 30 September 2011, 09:07:29 »
I thought it was a discussion on the things to consider/adjust when porting from MG to GAE not another pointless pissing match?

When porting MG mods that leverage later MG functionality you'll loose some stuff that GAE does not support. Goes for Annex, scifi pack, cold war pack, scifi tile sets etc

Psychedelic_hands

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Re: Project Red: official announcement
« Reply #91 on: 30 September 2011, 11:30:31 »
I thought it was a discussion on the things to consider/adjust when porting from MG to GAE not another pointless pissing match?

When porting MG mods that leverage later MG functionality you'll loose some stuff that GAE does not support. Goes for Annex, scifi pack, cold war pack, scifi tile sets etc

Yeah, this conversation is becoming pretty pointless, lets just note that to make a GAE mod work in MG would be just as difficult to make a MG mod work in GAE, and leave it at that.
One thing I'd love to see, is for a coder to take it upon themselves to fix pointless incompatibilities, and in the future programers take compatiblity into account more.

Mr War

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Re: Project Red: official announcement
« Reply #92 on: 30 September 2011, 12:07:22 »
Or some sort of a script /tool to auto convert or manage/help with conversion

Psychedelic_hands

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Re: Project Red: official announcement
« Reply #93 on: 30 September 2011, 12:09:13 »
That would be good.... But then it would need to be updated everytime a new feature is implemented.

Mr War

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Re: Project Red: official announcement
« Reply #94 on: 30 September 2011, 14:28:35 »
A bulk patsing tool could do it, like instead of trying to start a game and then dealing with the errors one at a time, and restarting every time, being able to view and edit the errors live. Will had something like this in his GlestNG project although his approach was more towards editing XML in-game I think. Glest has useful debug outputs but I think a tool would be helpful.

Omega

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Re: Project Red: official announcement
« Reply #95 on: 1 October 2011, 01:28:20 »
As a note, if you want to continue the discussion of such a tool in more detail, please make a new topic, it does not discern project red, which is being done the (more efficient) manual way. Though I think that a tool to try and convert features is largely useless when there's so few things that exist in both engines but are done differently; most changes one engine has and the other doesn't.
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John.d.h

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Re: Project Red: official announcement
« Reply #96 on: 1 October 2011, 10:58:41 »
It seems to me that people have the impression that my project is a mere compatibility fix. :-\  This is far from the case.  If you're not going to take advantage of GAE's awesome features like effects, emanations, transports, etc., then I don't see the point in making a GAE mod at all.

Yeah, this conversation is becoming pretty pointless, lets just note that to make a GAE mod work in MG would be just as difficult to make a MG mod work in GAE, and leave it at that.
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Quote
One thing I'd love to see, is for a coder to take it upon themselves to fix pointless incompatibilities, and in the future programers take compatiblity into account more.
I agree.  Programmers are not doing us any favors by using completely different syntax for the same functionality.
« Last Edit: 1 October 2011, 11:04:37 by John.d.h »

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Re: Project Red: official announcement
« Reply #97 on: 1 October 2011, 13:39:07 »
My intention is not simply making a mere GAE port. It would be only the first (but necessary) part of work. For example, an idea within GAE-ifying  Woodsmen could be providing Hunter with a hound (a Glestimal).

John.d.h

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Re: Project Red: official announcement
« Reply #98 on: 16 December 2011, 08:01:42 »
I merged jda's changes to the Dwarf faction, so Project Red now has goats (and minor tweaks). :)

jda

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Re: Project Red: official announcement
« Reply #99 on: 16 December 2011, 16:43:20 »
Thanks for the post, John and the PM!  :thumbup:

I've just read all four pages of the thread and I must say I totally and completelly support Project Red! And I'm a fan too.  ;D

On the Dwarves faction and Wciow getting back to it, I'll PM both of you guys later - I've been off the faction myself for over an year, Wciow was off for about two years now, so... we should catch up!  ;D

Cheers!

 

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