Auto heal/repair

[Ishmaru]

I remember a time where you could select a unit ,egyptian priest for example, click heal then click the ground. This would make the priest automaticaly walk up to and heal surrounding damaged units (the ones he could). However i'm playing 3.5.2 and this no longer happens.... Unit just stands still.

Thank you.

_{Edit by Omega: Removed bug from title, since it's not a bug.}

[ultifd]

That must have been a dev version, actually. I think titi was working on an "area repair" but never got it stabilized, now he's working on something else.  He accidentally added it a while ago, then he removed it cause it wasn't finished. Otherwise, I don't think 3.5.1 had this...

[titi]

Its exactly like ultifd said ... ( it never really worked and I only accidently checked it in ).
I will work on it agin if I have more time.

[will]

"click on the ground" seems a neat accidental trick - its how the AI does it IIRC?

but I think its not a good user experience.  A proper dedicated command ought to be available so you select this mode with a button etc.

[tomreyn]

To heal the unit itself you can just click the heal command icon, then click on the unit for a while now.

[titi]

What I had in mind with the ground heal command is the following:

The command has a given center ( thats where you clicked ) and the units have a heal range ( I thought about using the sight value for this too ). After giving this command the unit starts to heal all units in range  of the centerd command point.
What would be needed for these kind of commands is a possibility to show the commands range/center for the user. I think a new overlay/rendering will be needed to show it to the user. It simply draws a circle of any special color and a center point/cross .
But as I said, its not done yet and i dropped the work I did becasue it wasn't that good.

[Ishmaru]

What I had in mind with the ground heal command is the following:

The command has a given center ( thats where you clicked ) and the units have a heal range ( I thought about using the sight value for this too ). After giving this command the unit starts to heal all units in range  of the centerd command point.
What would be needed for these kind of commands is a possibility to show the commands range/center for the user. I think a new overlay/rendering will be needed to show it to the user. It simply draws a circle of any special color and a center point/cross .
But as I said, its not done yet and i dropped the work I did because it wasn't that good.

Sounds like its a good idea. What i was more simple as the regular repair skill, when clicked on the ground unit would walk over and repair closest unit, when its complete go to next damaged unit (within its sight), and repair it. I wasn't thinking of indicators, ranged repair, or anything like that. If this is what your attempt was like i was fine with it. It did what i wanted it to do, and I didn't see any issues with it at that time.

[Omega]

You know, this is basically what GAE's auto-repair does better. If the unit is idle, and you didn't give it a command, it heals nearby damaged units, and this can be disabled real-time. After all, why waste time clicking the ground when you can just toggle a button on or off? At any rate, just another reason to merge.

[ultifd]

No, GAE's auto repair is messy. In fact, some there should be "rules" where auto repair is not on for some units...or else it's suicide.  This is better because it's more controlled, and it's actually real nice. I don't think titi should give up on it. And titi isn't the biggest supporter of auto-repair, if you remember. I think it's good, but there should be more rules so it's not so messy. The only real chance of having a merge is porting GAE features to MG when they are both stable... Softcoder seems to be a lot more busy now too, I haven't seen him for days.  

Anyways I believe this feature would be great, but first it needs to be stabilized and perhaps there should be a button for it too...

[Omega]

No, GAE's auto repair is messy. In fact, some there should be "rules" where auto repair is not on for some units...or else it's suicide.

There is rules. Your commands take first priority. If an enemy is around, they won't heal something until that mean attacking foe is dead first. You can toggle it on or off in game if you need the unit to hold its position.

And titi isn't the biggest supporter of auto-repair, if you remember.

It can be disabled in the INI anyway [for GAE]. It just brings forth the "just because you don't like it doesn't mean others think the same way" argument.

[ultifd]

Well yes it has basic rules, but I'm talking about some more specific ones. Maybe it's just bad AI, or both, but it just doesn't seem as nice as other auto repair in other games.

It can be disabled in the INI anyway [for GAE]. It just brings forth the "just because you don't like it doesn't mean others think the same way" argument.

GAE is just about singleplayer though, which makes a big difference when disabling if it was in MG. That argument is faulty, as most of the MG community (at least when we were discussing about this before didn't like it.) Anyways, once we evolve on this "area repair", it'll be nice enough. (Now, please apply your own argument to this. Just because you don't like it, most of us actually do like it.)  

[Omega]

Well yes it has basic rules, but I'm talking about some more specific ones. Maybe it's just bad AI, or both, but it just doesn't seem as nice as other auto repair in other games.

Well, that can be improved. What do you suggest?

GAE is just about singleplayer though, which makes a big difference when disabling if it was in MG.

How so? Balance isn't an issue since you can use it if you want, but those who really believe that it is a negative can just... not... use it... If you find it "unbalancing" to not use, then just...use...it...

That argument is faulty, as most of the MG community (at least when we were discussing about this before didn't like it.)

If I recall, it was never put to a general consensus, just the one line statement that Titi opposed it. But may as well solve that, I'll add a poll.

[Ishmaru]

Ok for clarification reasons the auto- heal I talked about in first post is not same as what gae has... the difference is in how auto heal is engaged gae is either on or off set beore match begins, while the version that I saw before was initiated by targeting ground. Its controlled and used only when player decides on a per situation basis.
 Yes I know u can turn it off as an ini setting but there are times within a single game where i would want this and times were I wouldent. Titi proposed version lets me decide when to use it.

 This way would be a good compromise between those who like to micromanage and those who don't.

Edit: Im not totally against GAE system but If we were to implement Gae system, lets set some rules for its functionality.

1) we need to have a way to enable and disable this on an unit level (ex some enabled other not) within game (actually game mode not menu)  (maybe done already?)

2) there should be an option to decide weather auto repair is initially enabled or disabled from that units creation. whats default setting for unit. Probably as an option menu or ini setting.

3)... i forgot   -__-   ill add it when i remember...  The first two are the most important anyway.

[ultifd]

Edit: Im not totally against GAE system but If we were to implement Gae system, lets set some rules for its functionality.

1) we need to have a way to enable and disable this on an unit level (ex some enabled other not) within game (actually game mode not menu)  (maybe done already?)

2) there should be an option to decide weather auto repair is initially enabled or disabled from that units creation. whats default setting for unit. Probably as an option menu or ini setting.

3)... i forgot   -__-   ill add it when i remember...  The first two are the most important anyway.

Yes, it's rules like this...and probably more, if it was to be implemented. If so it would a be in the ini...
In my opinion to make it work the best, it should be off by default, and then it would be easier for specific groups to auto repair and such...at least in Warcraft III, it was like this. It worked really well.

How so? Balance isn't an issue since you can use it if you want, but those who really believe that it is a negative can just... not... use it... If you find it "unbalancing" to not use, then just...use...it...

Because in multiplayer, all settings should be the same for each human...or else it wouldn't really be fair. In singleplayer, no one cares. Can't you see that?

If I recall, it was never put to a general consensus, just the one line statement that Titi opposed it. But may as well solve that, I'll add a poll.

Is a poll really the way to do it? As I said before it should only be people who actually play MegaGlest...and a poll can't really justify that. Just wait until we try this area repair more, please. Then we should actually think about this.

[Omega]

Ok for clarification reasons the auto- heal I talked about in first post is not same as what gae has... the difference is in how auto heal is engaged gae is either on or off set beore match begins

Have you played GAE's git-master? You can turn it on and off real time in game on a per unit basis. Bam. The INI is the more permanent setting for those who really hate autorepair, for some reason.

The compromise for multiplayer is to either always have it off in multiplayer, or to have a "universal" toggle for it in multiplayer. Besides, regarding balance, if you really think the other player has an advantage by using autorepair, just man up and use it yourself (harsh, but true). It doesn't really give a huge advantage, and you must have an idle worker (I rarely have idle workers, only usually in the beginning when I am still building a lot, in which case the newly produced unit goes straight to production).

2) there should be an option to decide weather auto repair is initially enabled or disabled from that units creation. whats default setting for unit. Probably as an option menu or ini setting.

Agreeable.

Is a poll really the way to do it? As I said before it should only be people who actually play MegaGlest...and a poll can't really justify that. Just wait until we try this area repair more, please. Then we should actually think about this.

1. Does that justify removing the poll?
2. This is the MegaGlest board, why would someone who hasn't at least played MG a little be here (I may be mostly a GAE fan, but I have played MG, though it is incompatible on my home network because there is not yet any method of reconnecting).
3. Why not ask people if they prefer auto-repair, area-repair, or old fashion "click and it shall be done" repair?

[ultifd]

Is a poll really the way to do it? As I said before it should only be people who actually play MegaGlest...and a poll can't really justify that. Just wait until we try this area repair more, please. Then we should actually think about this.

1. Does that justify removing the poll?
2. This is the MegaGlest board, why would someone who hasn't at least played MG a little be here (I may be mostly a GAE fan, but I have played MG, though it is incompatible on my home network because there is not yet any method of reconnecting).
3. Why not ask people if they prefer auto-repair, area-repair, or old fashion "click and it shall be done" repair?

1.) Yes, unfortunately.
2.) Because since MG is more about multiplayer, with singleplayer there is little change from Glest, besides added data, better AI and pathfinding, and everything related to particles. For reconnecting, Softcoder said before that MG would have to have save games implemented first, as it's a base...or something like that.
3.) Well not everyone has actually tried area repair yet, so that wouldn't be fair.

[Omega]

2.) Because since MG is more about multiplayer, with singleplayer there is little change from Glest, besides added data, better AI and pathfinding, and everything related to particles. For reconnecting, Softcoder said before that MG would have to have save games implemented first, as it's a base...or something like that.

That doesn't seem to reply to my second point... I have played MG's multiplayer a bit (more so than its single player) on other connections. Even in a multiplayer game, I think autorepair would be great.

Again, balance is not an issue:

3.) Well not everyone has actually tried area repair yet, so that wouldn't be fair.

And never will get to unless it is readded. Besides, is there a reason they can't try both?

[ultifd]

2.) I was replying to your (...)

And never will get to unless it is readded. Besides, is there a reason they can't try both?

Yes, so simply have the patience to wait for it to be readded. We have more important things to deal with it. Try both? Anyone can try it in GAE.

[Omega]

Try both? Anyone can try it in GAE.

Indeed, though the multiplayer difference may be a deciding factor, so... At any rate, I simply wouldn't mind both being an option. The way I see it, Glest should be as customizable as possible. Why limit the user unnecessarily? Obviously, we can only do so much at once, but on the long run, we should try and be open. Give users the ability to play the game the way THEY want to play it.