Author Topic: The Great Ming (Chinese) Faction v0.1 Download  (Read 43419 times)

Hagekura

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Re: The Great Ming (Chinese) Faction
« Reply #25 on: 1 December 2011, 23:03:36 »
Nice buildings. :thumbup: I like the paddy looks.
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Mr War

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Re: The Great Ming (Chinese) Faction
« Reply #26 on: 4 December 2011, 17:09:34 »

Formations of Liang Xien (Wolf Spears), Ji Bing (Halberdiers), Da_Xia (swordsmen), Qi Bing (cavaliers), Qi Bing Shi Shou (cavalry archers) and Qi Zhi (banners).

Hagekura

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Re: The Great Ming (Chinese) Faction
« Reply #27 on: 4 December 2011, 21:26:54 »
Beautiful formation! :)

I can recognize most of your units(some chinese words pronounces are somewhat close to japanese), but can you tell me what is the "Da_Xia" write in a chinese character? I can't recognize it.
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Mr War

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Re: The Great Ming (Chinese) Faction
« Reply #28 on: 4 December 2011, 21:32:58 »
My pinyin mandarin is probably wrong, I got it by googling. It's Da Xia is 大侠. The correct Pinyin is dà xiá but MG doesn't cope with the accents.  Source http://hktv.cc/cd/hanyupinyin/?q=swordsman

next to add some ranged units


Current unit list. Hand-held fire arrows and crouching-tiger cannon removed.


In general the correct balancing is for Ming to have weaker infantry, equal cavalry and superior artillery than Japanese I think. They get firearms quicker, but ultimately Japanese firearms are the same (both imported arquebus from Europe).
« Last Edit: 4 December 2011, 21:44:13 by Mr War »

Hagekura

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Re: The Great Ming (Chinese) Faction
« Reply #29 on: 4 December 2011, 22:18:09 »
Ah 大侠! the Hero. ;D thank you.

next to add some ranged units

Great, 五雷神機! Very nice!

I feel sorry for you removed crouching-tiger cannon from your unit list.
It would be a good portable-light cannon. They used the cannon often battle against Wako pirates.

In general the correct balancing is for Ming to have weaker infantry, equal cavalry and superior artillery than Japanese I think. They get firearms quicker, but ultimately Japanese firearms are the same (both imported arquebus from Europe).
That'll do.  :thumbup:
but Chinese also imported muskets from Ottoman turks. and Japanese also produced improved matchlock muskets soon after the arrival of european arquebus.
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Mr War

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Re: The Great Ming (Chinese) Faction
« Reply #30 on: 4 December 2011, 23:02:12 »
Now for something silly,....


So Da Xia is hero, not general shield/sword guy? Do you know what the correct pinyin would be?

Hagekura

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Re: The Great Ming (Chinese) Faction
« Reply #31 on: 4 December 2011, 23:44:09 »
lol Reminds me a mass calisthenics of North Korea. The Liang Xien spear looks very cool.

hmn for Swordsman, maybe "剑客 jiànkè" ? I don't sure about chinese though.
I think Da xia is okay, unless you pointed out a mistake from chinese. :O
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Re: The Great Ming (Chinese) Faction
« Reply #32 on: 5 December 2011, 01:12:06 »
With Chinese swords, be careful of the distinction between jian and dao.  You'll often see dao translated as broadsword, scimitar, or sabre, and they are the curved, single-edged machete-like ones, whereas a jian is a straight, double-edged long sword.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jian
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dao_%28sword%29

Mr War

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Re: The Great Ming (Chinese) Faction
« Reply #33 on: 6 December 2011, 08:30:00 »
Thanks for the research man. Yeah I didn't know much about Chinese military history when I started this but I've been doing a lot of reading and asking history buffs.

The sword guys, well really shield guys with a sword, would have used dao and I modelled it based on that.

Hagekura

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Re: The Great Ming (Chinese) Faction
« Reply #34 on: 6 December 2011, 20:14:12 »
What do you think about simply name him "Swordsman", as I did in the japanese swordsman. until you find suitable name of him.
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Mr War

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Re: The Great Ming (Chinese) Faction
« Reply #35 on: 6 December 2011, 22:51:13 »
yeah maybe that's the answer. But would be a shame to have only one English unit description. Another unit I cannot find the pinyin for is a wagon laager.

AI-v-AI. Mostly Shi Shou (composite bowmen) on the left, and Huo Che (fire carts, basically MLRS) on the right. Corpses are following exchange of wolf spears.

Updated unit list
« Last Edit: 6 December 2011, 23:24:53 by Mr War »

Hagekura

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Re: The Great Ming (Chinese) Faction
« Reply #36 on: 8 December 2011, 09:45:15 »
Nice screenshot!
I also couldn't find a correct chinese name of the Laager. Maybe you should take account of name it simply war-wagon.

btw, Mainarm of the samurai in my mod is 大身の槍(Oomiyari = Big Head Spear). Although this weapon is suitable for both slashing and piercing attacks, you should classify it as pole-arms.
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Mr War

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Re: The Great Ming (Chinese) Faction
« Reply #37 on: 10 December 2011, 09:24:02 »
Found the pinyin for the swordsmen, it's Teng Pai Bing which means Rattan shield soldier - the shield being more important than the sword it seems.

Some recent screenshots - musketeers added (thanks Hagekura for the particles help!!!)



Hagekura

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Re: The Great Ming (Chinese) Faction
« Reply #38 on: 10 December 2011, 10:22:28 »
Good, Teng Pai Bing sounds cool. :thumbup:

Looks developing goes at a good rate. :) Looking forward to release.
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Omega

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Re: The Great Ming (Chinese) Faction
« Reply #39 on: 11 December 2011, 04:29:13 »
Looks great (the particles), but the HUD overlay, particularly the way it overlaps with the minimap, hurts my eyes. Somewhat offtopic, but is there a way to disable the custom HUD's on the user side?
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Mr War

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Re: The Great Ming (Chinese) Faction
« Reply #40 on: 12 December 2011, 21:08:08 »
Thanks all for feedback. I'll try to share a beta in a day or two to complement Hagakura's latest Japanese faction. It won't have all the units or fine tuning.

Grand General Cannon and musketeers


Tech Tree. Units without icons are ones not in upcoming beta.
« Last Edit: 15 December 2011, 20:04:11 by Mr War »

Hagekura

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Re: The Great Ming (Chinese) Faction
« Reply #41 on: 12 December 2011, 21:36:25 »
Thanks all for feedback. I'll try to share a beta in a day or two to complement Hagakura's latest Japanese faction. It won't have all the units or fine tuning.

Grand General Cannon and musketeers

Sweet! :thumbup:
Both cannon and musket looks great, looking forward to release, but please take your time. ;D

For now I see the techtree map, I think ming should have some kind of "Research Center" building, Like Daimyo Yashiki.  Perhaps the building like "紫禁城(Zǐjinchéng,The Forbidden City)" would appropriate to the purpose.
« Last Edit: 13 December 2011, 13:38:01 by Hagekura »
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Mr War

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Re: The Great Ming (Chinese) Faction
« Reply #42 on: 15 December 2011, 20:01:27 »


More buildings, upgrades and key units planned for future releases. This is likely to be only release for some time though. In particular, if anyone knows of more fitting music (wav, mp3 or ogg format, must be appropriately licensed for reuse)

About Ming Dynasty
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The Ming Dynasty ruled China from 1368 to 1644 (1662 in the South of China). They replaced the Mongols (after Genghis Khan's descendants, known as Yuan Dynasty) and were replaced by the Manchurians (Qing Dynasty).

Their military might went up and down with the quality of their emperors. At their best, they had a massive professional army (up to 1 million men!!!) who were well organized and well trained. During the weaker emperors the military decayed.

The army was divided into Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery. The infantry was most numerous but cavalry were generally equally important (again varied over time). But Artillery was the characteristic strength of the Ming.

Infantry divisions, at least in the early Ming, were highly structured in composition, with 100 men (later 112 but same proportions):
40 spearmen with spears, tridents, "wolf spears" or halberds.
30 archers = with compound bows and sometimes crossbows.
20 swordsmen with either round rattan shields or oblong plank ones, and saber - the shield seems more tactically important than the sword.
10 men operating firearms

In later years this varied, but all categories remained. Often soldiers appear to have carried bows or fire-arrows in addition to other weapons, and most had a saber. Southern troops often carried large two-handed "horse cutting" swords (Chang-dao and Miao-dao).

Cavalry were divided between lancers, armed with spears or moon-shaped halberds (similar to Guan-dao), and cavalry archers. Some troops carried both.

There are reports of monks being used, particularly from Shaolin temple. I suspect that some of this is exaggerated by shaolin fans but overall they were involved in some battles, armed with spears or staffs.

The artillery was the specialty. The main weapon was the fire cart, basically an multiple-rocket-launcher on a wheel-barrow base. These things were used in their thousands, and employed both defensively and to charge the enemy. They also used lots of small cannon, notably the "crouching tiger cannon" and larger "grand General Cannon", but still relatively small. Later they imported cannon from Europe, which is ironic as cannon were a Chinese invention. But by late Ming dynasty European ones were superior, largely because of metallurgy. Trebuchets would have been used by early Ming but gunpowder ruled by then.

Firearms were already common by start of Ming, have originated as a banger on the end of a spear, hence "fire spear" being used to describe guns. By Ming the main gun type was iron and mounted on a long shaft, often with three barrels for quick firing. It doubled as a mace. As with cannon, the idea had been exported to Europe and by late Ming the Europeans were technologically ahead, so Ming imported European Arqebusers and muskets.

Other key weapons include the battle wagon, which was deployed as mobile forts (laager in modern military terms). These were particularly vital in fighting the mongols/nomads in the north. I'm not sure what the historic connections are, but equipment and tactics are very similar to the Hussites in Europe around this time. In Korea, fighting the Japanese, they seemed to have relied on cavalry, although there were lots of infantry and artillery also. Also in the late Ming, like in Europe, they trained Infantry in use of horses, making them Dragoons.

Game balancing with Japanese Faction
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The faction is designed to complement the excellent Japanese faction. We may add other historical sides also. The current beta is not complete or fully balanced.

In general the Ming have weaker infantry, equal cavalry and better artillery. Winning tactics ought to be maximizing artillery, protecting them with infantry and cavalry archers. Weakness would be against massed Japanese melee units, particularly swordsmen and samurai. at least, that's my hope.

Currently Japanese faction lacks cavalry units, so Ming Cavalry are slightly degraded to avoid being too strong.


« Last Edit: 16 December 2011, 18:29:59 by Mr War »

Hagekura

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Re: The Great Ming (Chinese) Faction (BETA Download)
« Reply #43 on: 16 December 2011, 01:47:38 »
Congrats for the release!

but Currently this faction isn't assigned AI-behavior correctly thus CPU can't play this faction well.
Code: [Select]
<resource-producer-units>
<unit name="nong_min" minimum="4"/>
</resource-producer-units>
This code is wrong. You must set pig or paddy in here. Resource producer unit = food producing unit. not worker.

Make cpu build at least 3 barracks first.

Big problem is, most upgrades of the faction are conducted in the Castle. CPU can't develop the faction because while conducting upgrade, the faction can't produce workers. This is why I said make research building separately from castle.

Any way, well done! Looking forward for the more Improvements and Development!

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Mr War

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Re: The Great Ming (Chinese) Faction (BETA Download)
« Reply #44 on: 16 December 2011, 09:26:11 »
Good spot re AI

I'm not going to rush to rerelease. I am planning to add at least two more buildings, and then refine and redistribute the upgrades. New buildings will include a temple or monastey, and a merchants house or market gate.


Mr War

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Re: The Great Ming (Chinese) Faction (BETA Download)
« Reply #45 on: 16 December 2011, 18:31:59 »
BETA-2 Download of FACTION folder (7zip) http://www.mediafire.com/?m4gribt816g68ye
Requires MG 3.6
Best played as Faction within Japanese Tech Tree but is also Magitech compatible

Added Buddhist Temple ("gucha") for upgrades (Shaolin Monks planned but not there yet - some Upgrades will move to other buildings in later iterations).

Hagekura

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Re: The Great Ming (Chinese) Faction (BETA Download)
« Reply #46 on: 17 December 2011, 23:36:31 »
Nice update! the temple looks really good! and now AI plays much better.

I like that "huo_qiang" has both ranged and melee attack skill.
When he runs out ammo(EP), He can quickly change to mace man. ;D I feel sorry for that AI can't switch their attack in melee.

It's really fun fighting with japanese faction. but of course, We need to have a lot more debates about balancing and etc.  8)

Anyway, this faction is still in beta, I expect more for complete version!
This faction has potential, so I hope you continue working on this faction hard.
keep up the good job! :thumbup:
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Mr War

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Re: The Great Ming (Chinese) Faction (BETA Download)
« Reply #47 on: 30 December 2011, 15:34:13 »
Ying Che (Eagle cart, like a Laager)



The final version will have three guys with hand cannons, and will need to deploy from travel configuration to static defense. In function it'll be as per the Ming war wagon 'Laagers', but is lighter than the ox or horse drawn ones. Real ones would have had more troops, but for balancing reasons I'll keep to 3. The winged tiger was intended to scare horses, same as was painted on some shields etc.



3 guys and still only about 1200 triangles!!! :D
« Last Edit: 30 December 2011, 23:19:50 by Mr War »

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Re: The Great Ming (Chinese) Faction (BETA Download)
« Reply #48 on: 31 December 2011, 05:37:44 »
<4000 pixels of pictures here>
Wow, very nice models and textures. Even better poly count. I'm curious how it looks to go from moving to attacking, though (too bad there's no way to make a "transition" animation).
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Re: The Great Ming (Chinese) Faction (BETA Download)
« Reply #49 on: 31 December 2011, 18:21:06 »
<4000 pixels of pictures here>
Wow, very nice models and textures. Even better poly count. I'm curious how it looks to go from moving to attacking, though (too bad there's no way to make a "transition" animation).

It probaly work like imperial's trebuchet morphing between a stationary attack mode and a mobile mode.

Cool model man!
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