The Great Ming (Chinese) Faction v0.1 Download

[Kiko]

Re GAE. Yes it could be ported across but would need to change a lot in XML, mostly removing multiple animations and particles.

I thought you might mean that GAE doesn't do particles, but read on the wiki that it does. Does this mean that I'd just need to read up on modifying the particle XML to work on GAE? Also, what do you mean by "multiple animations"? Just a few hints will do, as I don't expect anyone to do non-essential work for me.

To stop your units wandering off every time they attack use the "hold" command - most units have this (it's moddable in the xml).

I'll look that up sometime – thanks.

Re Guns. Gunpowder was pretty central to Chinese military, so hard to remove all gunpowder units. But removing musketeers would be easy. To do so....
1) copy the faction folder and rename it so that you now have a second (cloned) faction
2) rename the faction xml file in the new faction folder to match the folder's name.
3) In the units folder of the new faction, go to the buildings which build units you want to remove and in the building xml remove the command to build them.
4) if the unit being removed can be morphed into, go to the unit that morphs and remove the morph command
5) test it by playing.

WSOD + CTD, haha. Work to be done...

I have no problem with people modding my mods, just be nice about it

I'll only be messing around with my own copy, but if one day I do share then I'll always ask first and give credit where it's due. Cheers.

[Omega]

MegaGlest has a few more particle systems abilities than GAE (currently) does.

Engine feature comparison

If you're interested in removing the MegaGlest only tags, you may wish to take a look at the wiki's XML documentation to see which tags are MegaGlest only (everything with a blue background). For the most part, many extra MegaGlest only stuff should NOT have to be removed, as GAE will simply ignore it. Not sure how GAE will react to multiple animations, though. Just remove all but one <animation path="..." /> tags from each skill tag.
XML definitions on the wiki

And if you do manage to get a properly functioning version in GAE, please, upload it for other members of the community to enjoy, while giving credit to Mr War (I do believe the mod is licensed as CC-BY-SA; meaning you can change and redistribute it as you wish, as long as you credit the author(s)).

[Kiko]

Thanks Omega, Mr War and Hagekura.


The Ming mod now works on GAE, and can be found *updated* at http://www.mediafire.com/?g6e1bd7bby8wviv. It contains the mod folders with just the XML files, single animations only, and some particle emission-rate values set to integers instead of floats (as in the Japanese faction I just altered for GAE).

Omega showed how to set up max-unit-count using XML for GAE, so the mod behaves similarly to the MG version but with single unit animations (mostly attacks).

On a side note; I haven't done anything with these mods except upload them to Mediafire and share links in these forums. Huge kudos to you guys for sharing them and spending so much time creating and updating them. Personally, I'm a big Eastern history buff, and have practised and taught various martial arts for over 20 years, so these really blow my skirt up.

I have to say, Mr War, that while I wouldn't like to praise yourself or Hagekura more one than the other, some little extras you've added are really very cool. Reading Sun Tzu (and other things) causing a brazier to light in the building is neat, and I like the changes to where the icons are (ie., some in different categories/buildings). I hope you won't mind me saying though that the spinning kick looks a bit more Michael Flatley than kung-fu. Crouching Dancer, Hidden Guinness..!   (Edit: I realised it's because it repeatedly spins – one kick at a time would look cool, if it's possible).

[Omega]

How to emulate max unit counts on GAE:

1. In the resources folder of the techtree, make a new folder titled "limit" (it really could be anything, but we must always call it the same name)

2. Create a blank text file named "limit.xml" and give it the following content:

Code: [Select]

<?xml version="1.0" standalone="no"?>

<resource>
<image path="../energy/images/energy.bmp" />
<type value="static" />
<display value="false" />
</resource>
3. In the faction XML (which should be named the same as the name of the faction, and be found inside the faction's folder), looking for the <starting-resources> node (should probably be the first one) and add a new line inside of that: <resource name="limit" amount="#" /> (replace "#" with the maximum number you want to be produced).

4. In the unit in particular, edit their unit XML (which should be in their name) and find the <resource-requirements> node. Inside this, add the new line: <resource name="limit" amount="1" />

5. This will have the result of requiring one of this "limit" resource (which you start off with a limited number and cannot produce more) for each of the unit you produce, and when the unit dies, the resource will be recovered, allowing the maximum to be maintained. The resource is hidden, meaning it won't appear at the top. If you need multiple limits in a faction, you could name the resources "limit1", "limit2", etc, though each would need their own resource.

[Kiko]

How to emulate max unit counts on GAE: ... This will have the result of requiring one of this "limit" resource (which you start off with a limited number and cannot produce more) for each of the unit you produce, and when the unit dies, the resource will be recovered, allowing the maximum to be maintained.

Superb, and thanks; it works well. The limit shows as 1 on the display (no big deal), and when the limit you've set is reached it displays something like, "No more limit available". I'll try modifying it to "No more Shinobi available", etc., and see if it works out.


Edit:

I've tested the Japanese and Ming Chinese factions, and have updated my 7zip XML file set. I've used Ki for Japanese Shinobi, and Chi for Chinese Shaolin, so the interface and messages look ok.

Should I bother uploading them to Mediafire again and renewing the links in my posts, or just assume that the people reading these posts will be able to do it themselves? (I don't know the capabilities of others yet, being new here).

[Omega]

Should I bother uploading them to Mediafire again and renewing the links in my posts, or just assume that the people reading these posts will be able to do it themselves? (I don't know other yet, being new here).

Reupload, and add a link to the wiki page, for others (you should include the models though, and delete the extra models no long used from the multiple animations). Laziness is easier .

[Kiko]

Reupload, and add a link to the wiki page, for others (you should include the models though, and delete the extra models no long used from the multiple animations). Laziness is easier .

I've updated the post below, re-uploaded to Mediafire, and updated my previous post links. I don't want to mess with models just yet, and also think that the XML file set is simple to just copy over the relevant MG mod without messing around with anything else, so will be easy for GAE users. I might get clever later on, but not just now.

I've also updated the Japanese wiki page (the History section seemed ok), but can't see a Ming Dynasty page (also, the Mods List page seems incomplete).


A quick note for Mr War;

With headphones on I noticed that the "ni hao" voice clip is a bit loud and has some breath rasping on it. (I haven't checked much else out as I'm too busy just playing it). I've become too used to the Japanese mod, and yours plays a little differently. Just got hammered by one CPU player on 'normal' level! A great mod, and lots of fun.

[Omega]

The page exists now.

https://docs.megaglest.org/Ming_(faction)

[Kiko]

The page exists now.

Cheers. I've added a wiki update in the same way as for the Japanese mod.

[Mr War]

thanks man, much appreciated porting it to GAE. Sorry I've not been engaged, have been concentrating on Ludum Dare. I'd guessed it'd be more issues but I guess GAE just ignores some XML bits?

[Omega]

I'd guessed it'd be more issues but I guess GAE just ignores some XML bits?

The way XML works in general is that the engine should only be parsing tags by name which it is set to do. This means all new MG only tags will get along fine: GAE would simply ignore it. The same applied to using a GAE mod in MegaGlest (so a unit with an emanation should work in MG, though there'd be no emanation). However, when existing tags use new parameters, that's when errors start flying. So in the case of particle emission rate, only the Git master supports float values, the last stable release and the beta do not, so would crash. Same with new commands: MegaGlest understands commands, but it doesn't know what a patrol command is.

Of course, even when mods for one engine run on another, they don't necessarily play the way they're supposed to. For example, GAE has no max-unit-count (though can use hidden resources to replicate the effect (though not MegaGlest compatible: the resource would work, but wouldn't be hidden).

Once GAE 0.4 is released, which fixes the crash due to floats in particle emission rates, most MegaGlest mods should work fine on GAE (I'm actually not sure how GAE will react to multiple animations, though it doesn't crash, as Shibboleth snuck in some MG animation code). Of course, unit count limitations won't work, attack boosts and multiple animations would be ignored, and some particles may not appear as intended, but it will work. However, GAE mods will only work on MegaGlest if no new commands are used (and possibly other things). You should be able to, for example, give units bump maps or an emanation and the mod would work on both engines.

[Mr War]

I GAE, has the problem of the AI not building dockyards been solved in the stable release yet?

[Omega]

I GAE, has the problem of the AI not building dockyards been solved in the stable release yet?

There is no stable release, 0.4 is still in development.

[SnEptUne]

Hi Mr War,

Here's my two cents.

1) Regarding the text: In my opinion, the current Ming faction is overusing Ping Yin.  I think it would be much better if you limit using Ping Yin on only well known phases/units, such as Shaolin etc.. and use English for the rest unless the phase is very awkward in English.

Firstly, Chinese is a written language, which is common for almost all regions.  If the units text are in Chinese, it works perfectly, but the text is Ping Yin, which is a standardized pronounciation for the Mandarin diague, (not Cantanese or other dialogue, unlike the Chinese text which is common).  Secondly, Ping Yin without the accents (whatever you called those) makes little sense.  As a Chinese who knows Ping Yin, I found it very difficult to tell which units are what just by looking at the Ping Yin (without the accents).  Thus, it would be better to limit the uses of Ping Yin, which is ambiguous.

2) Regarding the music: Please make sure the music you use is in public domain.  I believe the current music is quite recent, so I am not sure whether it is in public domain or not.  Also the music does not fit with the dynasty or the war, it is a music more suitable for romances story or such, not wars.  Perhaps, you can try something like  東方紅 or 黃河頌 (not sure if they are public domain, but at least they are more for suitable for warring periods)

3) Regarding the units voices:  It is very odd for peasants and soldiers to say "thanks you" and "bye" all the times...  It makes them looks feebles, and I am pretty sure no soliders would say that to their commander in real life.

Here's some links to battle scenes for Ming solider's.  They may not be historical accurate, but they are good references:





not too sure if this is Ming Dynasty:


 

yeah maybe that's the answer. But would be a shame to have only one English unit description. Another unit I cannot find the pinyin for is a wagon laager.

Updated unit list

[Mr War]

Hi SnEptUne, thanks for your help

re Pin Yin.
As you will have guessed I do not speak any form of Chinese. When I started the mod in December I asked in this thread whether people would prefer Chinese (pin yin) names or English unit names. The first post of this thread, where i asked, has since been changed to give download link etc, but if you look at the first page you can see the conversation. It turns out that the Glest engine cannot accept the accented letters so I had to drop the accents.

Changing all the names now would be very time consuming and tedious. I'm working on other projects so I am not volunteering to do that I'm afraid. I understand your point though, but hopefully you can still enjoy playing the mod.

re Music.
Finding suitable public domain music was very hard, for me at least. I have since found a possible alternative and would appreciate your opinion: "Asian Drums" on this page. http://incompetech.com/m/c/royalty-free/index.html?keywords=asian+drums&Search=Search

It's not historic or accurate but it is closer to what I imagined and it's free. Music choices are subjective but I'm up for changing it if a more suitable piece is available.

re unit voices.
What we have is literally the only public domain sound effects I could find, and I fully acknowledge that they are pretty poor. If you have links to better free ones, or would like to record your own sound effects for inclusion, please don't hesitate.

re the videos.
Good watching, thanks. I'm no expert on Ming military but I did do quite a bit of research and asking around. Is the first video speaking part in Japanese and part in Chinese? That confused me.

Re the first three videos. Looks a cool movie. In general it felt like Ming as I imagine them from my readings. But in detail the armor looked too much like song dynasty I think, and one bit even looked like Qing cotton armor. At one point when some guys are lined up to be beheaded, the swords look more Qing, but not certain. And in another scene the sword looks like a civilian broadsword which I don't think was representative of Ming soldiers. BUT, this is an amateur opinion and any correction is welcome to help me learn.

One challenge with representing Ming is that the dynasty lasted hundreds of years so there is no one "typical" Ming soldiers armor etc. Also, I knowingly used Qing armor in some models for visual effect and some units, especially the ji bing (halberdier) are not particularly realistic at all. Overall I think it's a reasonably realistic faction within the engine limitations and gameplay considerations, at least I hope so.

Re the last video. Based on attire, looks like it represents the later Qing (Manchu) dynasty.

[SnEptUne]

Thanks for the quick reply Mr War.

Regarding the Ping Yin, you can add 1234 to subsitute the accents, but it would be nice if it can be reworded in English.  I can help with updating the XML.  Here's the text that illustrate the problem of using only pronounciation (Mandarin).

「石室詩史」施氏，嗜獅，誓食十獅，氏時時適市視獅。十時，適十獅適市；是時，適施氏適市。氏視是十獅，恃矢勢，使是十獅逝世，氏拾是十獅屍，適氏石室。石室濕，氏拭室。氏始試食十獅屍，食時，始識是十獅屍實十石獅。試釋是事。

The whole story is compose of just one pronounciation, "Shi".  If it is read out loud, no one will understand what it means.

I will see what I can find regarding the unit voices and music.

The videos are interesting, but they may not be accurate.  The problem is that it is hard to find how soldiers speaks in books.  I will let you know when I find something for the unit voices.

[EDIT]
Sorry, I have gotten sick during my vacation.  Now that vacation is over, I got sick again.  I will reply when I had recovered enough to work on this.
[/EDIT]