Author Topic: v3.6.0 : Battlemage with 5 kills after promotion to Archmage is not an Expert.  (Read 1428 times)

TotalNoob

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Hi

As said in the topic: I set a battlemage with 5 kills to promote to archmage. After becoming one it is not an Expert Archmage although he has enough kills to be one. Screenshot: https://pzt.me/4f4t


titi

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Well, how to fix this?

I think the correct way would be to remove the kills from the unit when it is morphed, becasue a new units is born. So Battlemage with 5 kills promoted to archmage results in Archmage with 0 kills.
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MuwuM

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I think the correct way would be to remove the kills from the unit when it is morphed, becasue a new units is born. So Battlemage with 5 kills promoted to archmage results in Archmage with 0 kills.

That sound's quite strange!

A Swordman morph to a Guard is more like he trains and get a new equipment and not like: he disappears and a new Guard appears from nothing.

Reallife Example: Imagine...

You are a soldier and have killed 7 people in the last war. Now you became commander. You still have killed 7 people, haven't you?

tomreyn

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Who is you? The commander has slain zero people. I'm with Titi.
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MuwuM

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Who is you?
You is the person who read this post.

The commander has slain zero people. I'm with Titi.
Yes but before becoming commander he killed the people. Imaginge I kill you (tomreyn) and titi.  So I have 2 kills. Then I became  governor. So I'm the governor and that's why the governor has killed 2 people.

If that would not be I could kill everyone I'd like to, became e.g. politican and I have 0 kills again and I can't be punished.

Ishmaru

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I'm with MuwuM a unit should keep its kills when its upgraded. If anything it would make more sense to upgrade swordsmen to guards with more kills so they will be closer to elite guards than to upgrade swordsmen with no experience at all. If we set kills to zero than it would make more sense to upgrade rookies than veterans... that doesn't make any sense  :confused:

 If you guys really are against that then at least make it moddable. I can think of a few mods where setting kills to zero would be a problem. For example the transforming mech in the scifi pack, it will loose all experience each time it switches from air mode to ground mode. That makes even less sense then before... :confused:
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Ok so this is about two different things really:
* 'Elite' units should remain 'elite' when they mutate/are upgraded.
* Kills should never be reset.

I agree it might be nicer to not reset kills with upgrades, but it doesn't seems like much of an issue to me if they are reset. But I definitely agree that promoted  ('elite'/'arch') units should remain promoted after mutation/upgrades. If this depends on them having made a given number of kills then either this relation needs to be broken up or they need to keep their kills during upgrades.
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Bloodwurm

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I would suggest two things:

- Add an option to determine if the kill count must be reset or not when completing the morph command. This way every unit can decide.
- How about changing the kill count vs experience to a counter instead of a static value (actually again both behavior should be configurable per units/morph commands)?

What I mean to say is it does make sense for a unit to "remember" it killed two units. And UI-wise, it might also be nice to display the total kill count for the unit. But some transformation should invalidate the kills in regards to elite advancement. For instance, If I set up a unit as being a sword bearing guy and then I morph into an archer, why would my previous melee combat experience influence how good an archer I am? Furthermore, how fair is it for my newly morphed archer to be closer to advancement than my newly constructed archer (not morphed, built from barracks directly)? So if the kill count was not static, then a unit could have 100 kills, morph into an archer but still require to get 5 more kills to get to elite.

will

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Yes, clearly this should be configurable in the unit xml

Omega

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I must agree with MuwuM. Levels and the unit should be impartial, since they are two separate things. With the default leveling boost, a unit gains +50% max HP, +50% max EP, +50% armor, and +20% sight. A swordman has 700 HP, 20 armor, and 10 sight. An elite swordman would have 1050 HP, 30 armor, and 12 sight. A guard has 950 HP, 40 armor, and 10 sight, inferior in all but armor, to the elite swordman (though an elite guard, needing 4 kills, would have 1425 HP, 60 armor, and 12 sight).

Not to mention the issue with morphing that is just meant to morph between forms of units (such Ishmaru mentioned).

On the issue of the actual bug report itself, yeah, the level should be correctly applied when morphing.

As for whether it should be configurable, I'm all for more modder choice, though don't see any application in current mods to change how it already keeps the killcount. After all, you could be in the army or the delta force, but personal experience in battles would persist regardless of which you have.
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