Author Topic: Translatable techtrees  (Read 7627 times)

tomreyn

  • MegaGlest Team
  • Airship
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,764
    • View Profile
    • MegaGlest - the free and open source cross platform 3D real-time strategy game
Re: Translatable techtrees
« Reply #25 on: 14 May 2012, 15:12:17 »
Yet another opinion: I like this new feature, and I like the idea of translating everything. I think this is very convenient for non english-speaking players. For an example which adds to the PRO arguments given provided so far, it should now become way more obvious for a non english speaking player that a beehive is a defensive structure.

I'm also not too concerned about the counter arguments, especially the argument that players of different native language with no or limited experience with the English language may have more trouble communicating. My experience is that when people cannot describe something by its english language term then they will just describe it by other means. So the blacksmith becomes the "house where you put wood", and the ornithopter may become the "fast flying fighter" or the "flying tech man". This is actually easier to understand for anyone who isn't too much into English, since it's a combination of simple words which translate way better than specific nouns. With the advantage that new players can often immediately tell, by its name, what a unit or structure does.

So personally I'm all for translatable techtrees. I do understand there is a (very minor, I say) risk involved but I think the advantages outweigh the disadvantages. Still, whether or not they are open to giving this a try is obviously something every techtree develper team needs to decide on their own. Keep in mind that we could have both the current Megapack shipping with MegaGlest, and a fully translated Megapack available as an add-on in the mods menu so that people can give it a try and see how it works. This is a suggestion to Titi, or anyone who wants to maintain such a fully translated Megapack (if Titi is fine with it).
atibox: Ryzen 1800X (8 cores @3.6GHz), 32 GB RAM, MSI Radeon RX 580 Gaming X 8G, PCI subsystem ID [1462:3417], (Radeon RX 580 chipset, POLARIS10) @3440x1440; latest stable Ubuntu release, (open source) radeon (amdgpu) / mesa video driver
atibox (old): Core2Quad Q9400 (4 cores @2.66GHz), 8 GB RAM, XFX HD-467X-DDF2, PCI subsystem ID [1682:2931], (Radeon HD 4670, RV730 XT) @1680x1050; latest stable Ubuntu release, (open source) radeon / mesa video driver
notebook: HP envy13d020ng
internet access: VDSL2+

· · · How YOU can contribute to MG · Latest development snapshot · How to build yourself · Megapack techtree · Currently hosted MG games · · ·

TotalNoob

  • Guest
Re: Translatable techtrees
« Reply #26 on: 15 May 2012, 22:23:16 »
True tomreyn. And airships can be called hairdryers ;) Maybe an translation on the fly could be implemented. If any player would write "battlemage" then each of the co-players would see this translated to his own language. Of course a drawback is that if someone uses some abbreviations to the names of units, this would not work (like BM for battlemage).

softcoder

  • MegaGlest Team
  • Battle Machine
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,239
    • View Profile
Re: Translatable techtrees
« Reply #27 on: 16 May 2012, 05:10:07 »
I think the best compromise is to allow the player to select the language to be used for techtrees per game. This should solve most of the issues, and if you need to tell a new user how to play, tell him to pick the language that you will both use, otherwise he likely only understands his own language.

GunChleoc

  • Horseman
  • ****
  • Posts: 202
    • View Profile
    • Fòram na Gàidhlig
Re: Translatable techtrees
« Reply #28 on: 17 May 2012, 11:36:10 »
I've just had another idea for multiplayer: how about the player who sets up a new game decides on which language is used for the techtree? Then we could have all the benefits: translations for non-English speakers in signle player, and a common unit language for multiplayer that the players can pick for their game - English or another language they have in common.

Make it possible for the person who starts the game to change the techtree language before the game starts, if people decide in chat to switch. For example, maybe I'm a Japanese speaker and want to play in Japanase, but there aren't enough Japanese speakers around at the moment, so switch to English language to get enough players in. If enough Japanese speakers are around, paying in Japanese would be more enjoyable.

It can sometimes be hard to understand for monolinguals of a powerful world language how it can feel for speakers of other languages to have stuff available in their own language. So, even although I'm a fluent English (though not native) speaker, I would get a kick out of playing in Gaelic, which is why I'm doing the translation :)

will

  • Golem
  • ******
  • Posts: 783
    • View Profile
Re: Translatable techtrees
« Reply #29 on: 17 May 2012, 12:09:56 »
Are we imagining problems we don't face?  If two players chat they ought to be using a language they both know.

The driver for this if I recall was actually wanting unit names like MLRS and renaming resources etc.  I hope the default.lng allows this.

Omega

  • MegaGlest Team
  • Dragon
  • ********
  • Posts: 6,167
  • Professional bug writer
    • View Profile
    • Personal site
Re: Translatable techtrees
« Reply #30 on: 17 May 2012, 13:53:50 »
Are we imagining problems we don't face?  If two players chat they ought to be using a language they both know.

The driver for this if I recall was actually wanting unit names like MLRS and renaming resources etc.  I hope the default.lng allows this.
Will has a point. Apocalyptic Dawn translated "aa_launcher" to appear as the correct "AA Launcher" in game, where without translations, it'd end up being "Aa Launcher", which looks horrible. AD also utilized translations to display tooltips on commands, something that MegaGlest could later expand to, and the translations would aid in such a feature.
Edit the MegaGlest wiki: http://docs.megaglest.org/

My personal projects: http://github.com/KatrinaHoffert

John.d.h

  • Moderator
  • Airship
  • ********
  • Posts: 3,757
  • I have to go now. My planet needs me.
    • View Profile
Re: Translatable techtrees
« Reply #31 on: 18 May 2012, 00:29:38 »
AD also utilized translations to display tooltips on commands, something that MegaGlest could later expand to, and the translations would aid in such a feature.
I think GAE-style tool tips would mitigate this issue tremendously.  With them, you could keep the unit name in a common language for reference, then explain what it is in the tool tip.  For example, if playing in Spanish, you could have a unit called a Knight with a tip that reads "un caballero noble con armadura pesada", which would make it clear that the unit is a noble horseman with heavy armor.  Of course, this requires a lot more translation.

Omega

  • MegaGlest Team
  • Dragon
  • ********
  • Posts: 6,167
  • Professional bug writer
    • View Profile
    • Personal site
Re: Translatable techtrees
« Reply #32 on: 18 May 2012, 05:53:03 »
AD also utilized translations to display tooltips on commands, something that MegaGlest could later expand to, and the translations would aid in such a feature.
I think GAE-style tool tips would mitigate this issue tremendously.  With them, you could keep the unit name in a common language for reference, then explain what it is in the tool tip.  For example, if playing in Spanish, you could have a unit called a Knight with a tip that reads "un caballero noble con armadura pesada", which would make it clear that the unit is a noble horseman with heavy armor.  Of course, this requires a lot more translation.
But still very doable as you know. You did the Spanish Magitech translation, after all.
Edit the MegaGlest wiki: http://docs.megaglest.org/

My personal projects: http://github.com/KatrinaHoffert

John.d.h

  • Moderator
  • Airship
  • ********
  • Posts: 3,757
  • I have to go now. My planet needs me.
    • View Profile
Re: Translatable techtrees
« Reply #33 on: 18 May 2012, 15:26:46 »
But still very doable as you know. You did the Spanish Magitech translation, after all.
Indeed, and all my text for Solunar is bilingual as well, so it's very doable.  I'm just not sure how willing translators would be to do their current work and pile on a bunch of tech trees as well.  I'm not so concerned about Magitech/Megapack as I am about all of the user-made content.  Google Translate might be "good enough" for most purposes, though, at least until/unless a real translator comes along and likes the mod enough.  I still think tool tips are a great solution, but they are not without their own considerations.

Zhook

  • Guest
Re: Translatable techtrees
« Reply #34 on: 19 July 2012, 09:41:28 »
Please, describe in details how to use this feature in svn.
I have megapack_russian.lng .
(click to show/hide)
What I should do? (it's desirable with commands to terminal(cp ./megapack_russian.lng .../svn/..?))
(Ubuntu 10.04)

D.U.P.A.

  • Guest
Re: Translatable techtrees
« Reply #35 on: 22 July 2012, 14:46:21 »
I don't think that this would cause confusion, sooner or later players will very soon learn english names of units and technologies, they will forced to. If they can't speak english, but only let's say italian, they will play among italians, also because only this way could communicate at all. This is one reason to have complete translation. Other reason, like I did, is to somehow promote our language. Here in Slovenia, no one will have problems with english names, it's right the opposite, we have more problems with slovenian names, we probably don't even have names of all these fantasy creatures and spells. Even basic stuff in these games sounds odd to slovenian ears. So I'd like to make slovenian people more used to things that are in the game.

softcoder

  • MegaGlest Team
  • Battle Machine
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,239
    • View Profile
Re: Translatable techtrees
« Reply #36 on: 22 July 2012, 15:13:57 »
Follow the instructions to get the techtree lng file working:

https://forum.megaglest.org/index.php?topic=8292.0

Thanks

Zhook

  • Guest
Re: Translatable techtrees
« Reply #37 on: 22 July 2012, 15:25:03 »
I put megapack_russian.lng to megapack folder. No units translation.
Need I edit russian.lng or I did somethink wrong?

tomreyn

  • MegaGlest Team
  • Airship
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,764
    • View Profile
    • MegaGlest - the free and open source cross platform 3D real-time strategy game
Re: Translatable techtrees
« Reply #38 on: 22 July 2012, 15:51:50 »
I've added a section on how this works, based on Softcoders' instructions, to the translations page on the wiki now:
http://wiki.megaglest.org/Translations#Translating_techtrees

I did not test it myself, yet, but I have no doubt it works as long as you are doing this on a development build, not on 3.6.0.3, and follow the instructions precisely.

Zhook: I suggest you read this, too, since you seem to be missing the lang subdirectory based on your description.
atibox: Ryzen 1800X (8 cores @3.6GHz), 32 GB RAM, MSI Radeon RX 580 Gaming X 8G, PCI subsystem ID [1462:3417], (Radeon RX 580 chipset, POLARIS10) @3440x1440; latest stable Ubuntu release, (open source) radeon (amdgpu) / mesa video driver
atibox (old): Core2Quad Q9400 (4 cores @2.66GHz), 8 GB RAM, XFX HD-467X-DDF2, PCI subsystem ID [1682:2931], (Radeon HD 4670, RV730 XT) @1680x1050; latest stable Ubuntu release, (open source) radeon / mesa video driver
notebook: HP envy13d020ng
internet access: VDSL2+

· · · How YOU can contribute to MG · Latest development snapshot · How to build yourself · Megapack techtree · Currently hosted MG games · · ·

Zhook

  • Guest
Re: Translatable techtrees
« Reply #39 on: 23 July 2012, 03:46:44 »
All works, thanks very much.