Author Topic: Generic MG Refit Discussion (renamed)  (Read 34559 times)

-Archmage-

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Generic MG Refit Discussion (renamed)
« on: 15 December 2012, 09:05:30 »
MG is too corny, that's why it isn't gonna take off like Glest. Glest had a feeling, it managed to do steampunk and magic without being ridiculous. MG for me is just.. no. Glest was a ton better with mods, but it feels to me like MG needs them to be fun. Another thing that really turns off the feeling is that every faction is smothered in fantasy, strange birds with fireballs, beetles and snakes fighting....

I can't get through a game of MG without getting bored, the games are short and don't give me much fun.

I've rarely brought up the poor art quality in MG, simply because I thought someone was gonna fix it eventually. But here we are years later and the worker is still killing people by hammering the ground... And the animations.... nuff said.

When I played tech and magic in the good old days of Vanilla Glest I remember a feeling, the dark music, the clings and clangs of the tools. It all fit together to create a mood that swept you in. Now.. when I play MG, I hear this oh so cheesy horn sound every time it's about to get serious, and most of the factions are goofy feeling. Indians and Norsemen are pretty good considering they don't have much context in the game. The rest are just mood killing right from the start!  :-[

I tried to help with art improvement but I lost interest halfway through the first faction, because I had to play test art and as soon as I actually tried to play a game I got bored!

Megaglest has really failed to deliver for me, and I believe I have voiced some of the reasons it is less addicting than VGlest. :bomb:

No offense I know you guys work hard on this but it isn't gonna go anywhere in this direction.
« Last Edit: 19 December 2012, 09:30:13 by -Archmage- »
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MoLAoS

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Re: I've been thinking this for a looong time.
« Reply #1 on: 15 December 2012, 12:42:19 »
Thank god I'm not the only one who thinks this. I was afraid to say it cause I figured everyone would get pissed.

I can't get through a game either.

Coldfusionstorm

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Re: I've been thinking this for a looong time.
« Reply #2 on: 15 December 2012, 15:33:32 »
Your guy's arn't the only ones.

Not to mention the annoying UI that sometimes feel's like it's working against you.
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MoLAoS

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Re: I've been thinking this for a looong time.
« Reply #3 on: 15 December 2012, 16:29:58 »
Your guy's arn't the only ones.

Not to mention the annoying UI that sometimes feel's like it's working against you.

To be fair every UI feels like that. Hell even real life feels like that when you know what you want to do but you can't execute.

-Archmage-

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Re: I've been thinking this for a looong time.
« Reply #4 on: 15 December 2012, 17:58:25 »
I think the biggest issue is that the MG devs are probably not going to recognize this as an issue and nothing will be done. :(

Your guy's arn't the only ones.

Not to mention the annoying UI that sometimes feel's like it's working against you.

To be fair every UI feels like that. Hell even real life feels like that when you know what you want to do but you can't execute.

Yea, like when you see this really pretty girl and all of a sudden you have to chase down your gui. :P
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MoLAoS

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Re: I've been thinking this for a looong time.
« Reply #5 on: 15 December 2012, 18:32:50 »
Your field of view is obscured by the sides of your face and you walk into a telephone pole.

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Re: I've been thinking this for a looong time.
« Reply #6 on: 15 December 2012, 20:12:30 »
I think the biggest issue is that the MG devs are probably not going to recognize this as an issue and nothing will be done. :(

I've read your first post twice, trying to understand what you are suggesting should be done to improve the issues you are seeing, and how you think it will be possible to achieve this realistically, and I'm having a hard time coming up with anything tangible. Maybe if you could rewrite the post from this perspective it could become constructive, and it would be possible to discuss what's doable, and how, and what's not possible (due to lack of volunteers who are into a given field of work).
« Last Edit: 15 December 2012, 20:19:41 by tomreyn »
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MoLAoS

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Re: I've been thinking this for a looong time.
« Reply #7 on: 15 December 2012, 20:25:27 »
He is suggesting that the flagship techtree for MegaGlest should be remodeled by an experienced modeler to be on par with the Magitech tree from the original game because having such bad art assets in the primary tech tree puts people off from the game.

How is the solution of having it remodeled not obvious?

-Archmage-

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Re: I've been thinking this for a looong time.
« Reply #8 on: 15 December 2012, 20:36:52 »
Well I mean all the art and faction trees need major makeovers.

1st Problem: It's a lot of work. But it can be done.
2nd Problem: Whether we could actually do this and have it replace the current stuff in MG is up to the MG devs, mainly Titi. Who I doubt will agree with me on this.
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Re: I've been thinking this for a looong time.
« Reply #9 on: 15 December 2012, 20:37:00 »
One other thing which might improve the look and feel of Megaglest is to remodel the Menus (I'd be happy to give designs, but not actually make the change as currently I have no Idea how to do so!  :) ). I won't go into detail here because this is more of a feature request.
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Re: I've been thinking this for a looong time.
« Reply #10 on: 15 December 2012, 20:47:01 »
Another point I'd like to make is, when playing offline, I find the games too short. This is because on other games the war lasts a very long time but you can just play for a little while and then save it for another time, so the game lasts longer and I get more fun out of it. But online the brief games work really well, because it means everybody has time to stay for a whole game so the games actually get finished. I don't have a clue though how this problem could be fixed.
"All right, I've been thinking. When life gives you lemons? Don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back! Get mad! 'I don't want your damn lemons! What am I supposed to do with these?'" ~Cave Johnson, Portal 2

Pizza90

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Re: I've been thinking this for a looong time.
« Reply #11 on: 16 December 2012, 02:58:43 »
If the problem is the fact that some models/animation are not of high quality i think someone can remake them and then we could replace the older ones. But i think that the real problem with megaglest is that the factions are not tied with a story. We have various factions but (except for magic and tech) we dont know why they are there and why they fight,their stories etc. I think this is a crucial thing because without a good story behind every faction the factions seem to be put in the game, random and this is not nice imo. With the campaign mode could be made a "story mode" explaining why the factions are in the game and so on :)
I translated Megaglest in italian and i keep the translation updated.

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Re: I've been thinking this for a looong time.
« Reply #12 on: 16 December 2012, 04:10:43 »
Yea I was thinking the same thing Pizza, but simply put the factions themselves barely pertain to their names. Take the hats off the romans and they could be scottish. I think if anything is gonna be done about this that first a more or less sensible story of a mythical land, something like wesnoth, needs to be written and agreed upon. I don't think Romans, magic, and Native Americans can fit all in one story though.

Ideas for names:

Kingdom of the South(Tech)
Society of Magic
Eastern Republic(Roman Influence)
Imperial Northern [EPIC NAME] (Norse Influence)
Native Rebels(Indians)
Empire of the Desert(Egypt/Persia Influence)

I think this would be a possible way to tie the current factions together. In the process the art would be updated and the faction trees restructured and extended to fit the name/story.
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ElimiNator

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Re: I've been thinking this for a looong time.
« Reply #13 on: 16 December 2012, 05:54:24 »
This isn't going to happen unless a lot of people agree.

I have re-done/fixed many thing that Titi rejected saying "That is the first thing we made, I think it will stay that way".

However I can fix Romans, give me ideas and Ill do some fixes.
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Zoythrus

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Re: I've been thinking this for a looong time.
« Reply #14 on: 16 December 2012, 06:07:27 »
I have returned from the grave to add to this discussion!

Okay, I am a firm believer in the need for MG reform, both in features and in gameplay. While features can be discussed elsewhere, the gameplay factor needs to be addressed ASAP. If anyone wants to actually get tech tree reform started, talk to me and we'll work on devising a more fun MG (after all, I am an experienced mechanics/gameplay conceptualist).

Now, about story. I want someone to look up the very old thread "Glest RPG." Sadly, that story was never finished (much to my dismay), but it may give us a nice starting point if we want to rewrite a story.

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Re: I've been thinking this for a looong time.
« Reply #15 on: 16 December 2012, 06:10:53 »
Personally, when it comes to art I would be able to listen more to people who actually finished something and tried to help instead of complainers. People like:

Hakegura
Ishmaru
Elimnator / Tiger

I hope I did not forget any larger type of contribution, but if you don't like the current art (in megapack, hmm i heard nothing about the others there), nothing stops you from making something awesome and showing it to us. The above people have done a great job in my opinion. Others have made great tilesets and maps which is appreciated, but if the developers see that you are actually dedicated in making something nice beyond a 2 month abandoned project (actually showing something from time to time and not just talking about vapour ware), guess what... the developers actually add features and try to please those who contribute in this way. This is not a rant, nor should anyone take offence, but 'built it and they will come'.

Thanks

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Re: I've been thinking this for a looong time.
« Reply #16 on: 16 December 2012, 07:49:26 »
I have been waiting for MG to get some graphical improvements. I did some improvement art for Egypt, but the source files got messed up, no idea how. I still have the project on my computer, but I have the opinion that it won't be much good because I don't really like egypts gameplay, style or over fantastic approach to history. To put it short I got very disinterested when I had to play test. I'm afraid that if I spent time putting together a new techtree with new art, that time would be wasted because it wouldn't be included in MG. I'm kinda looking for some agreement/approval of the whole idea before I get into it more.

BTW I am making the Jungle HD tileset specifically for MG, because let's face it MG is behind graphically in every way, and I figured a good way to get started would be to produce some better environmental art. Not that all tilesets are bad, just that Jungle had very old and simple art. Textures done with a gimp tileable brush and such. :)

Thank you for the animated tileset objects and tileset particles though, they are simple but considerable improvements to the graphics, and both will enable me to bring out a more detailed enviroment.
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Psychedelic_hands

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Re: I've been thinking this for a looong time.
« Reply #17 on: 16 December 2012, 11:13:38 »
Unfortunately, what we're all suggesting is against the vision of the MG developers... Which is why I always prefered to mod using GAE as the engine. The issue there is that GAE isn't currently developed, whereas MG IS being developed BUT in a way which isn't to everyone's liking because it is made intending to be a game and not as an game engine.
I believe that design philosophy really does limit the project... Unfortunately I don't that the MG guys are the devs who will change that.

On the other hand, I do still kind of like what MG is. It does have it's own seperate character which, hey is something. And philosophically? I think the MG devs should continue to do what they feel is their vision of what MegaGlest should be, as you know, they're the ones takings us there.
« Last Edit: 16 December 2012, 11:24:37 by Psychedelic_hands »

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Re: I've been thinking this for a looong time.
« Reply #18 on: 16 December 2012, 14:45:27 »
Perhaps the key is: why, in MegaGlest standard installations, I see TWO techtrees, and the second (Megapack) contains also the factions of the first (Magitech)?

If Magic and Tech were identical in both techtrees, I would propose:
- removing them from Megapack, so preserving the glorious Magitech techtree, which existed from origins of Glest;
- renaming the rest of the Megapack to "Ancient World" or something similar. It would become a self-consistent techtree, and other factions could be added, like Egyptians for example.

What about, for example, a Roman campaign, in which Romans fight against barbarians (Norsemen) and other threatening empires (Persians, Egyptians)? It would be EPIC... and game, perhaps, could last longer.

And so on: there are many mods, some with only one faction, with different historical (or fictional) contexts, which could be combined in other techtrees... possibilities are infinite.

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Re: I've been thinking this for a looong time.
« Reply #19 on: 16 December 2012, 14:47:29 »
Serperating the tech trees seems like a good idea, it sucks playing either magi or tech vs the new factions since they seem ridiclously overpowered against the old ones, and the old ones seemed more balanced.
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MoLAoS

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Re: I've been thinking this for a looong time.
« Reply #20 on: 16 December 2012, 14:50:36 »
Everyone who posted in this thread has produced real game additions, if not to MG specifically.

The reason people are mentioning the MegaPack is because the later art is actually decent as the artists became more proficient in their modeling and texturing skills.

The MegaPack was the first techtree so obviously its going to be the most outdated graphically.

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Re: I've been thinking this for a looong time.
« Reply #21 on: 16 December 2012, 17:12:47 »
The first thing that needs to be done is a plan.

After a solid plan is produced we can set up a poll for public opinion and ask MG developers what they think.

All the changes you guys talk about aren’t going to happen, I don't even like a few I have heard.

So start posting your ideas and a refined plan can be made.

For example I don't like the idea of multiple tech trees, many people like to play them all together.
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-Archmage-

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Re: I've been thinking this for a looong time.
« Reply #22 on: 16 December 2012, 17:24:25 »
How about my idea of renaming, restructuring, and remodeltexanimating Megapack into a simple storyline?
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ElimiNator

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Re: I've been thinking this for a looong time.
« Reply #23 on: 16 December 2012, 17:29:15 »
How about my idea of renaming, restructuring, and remodeltexanimating Megapack into a simple storyline?
This doesn’t sound to radical, but first the re-structured tech-trees and storyline need to be planed.
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Zoythrus

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Re: I've been thinking this for a looong time.
« Reply #24 on: 16 December 2012, 18:33:12 »
Once again, I really liked the overall story of the "Glest RPG," but that's just me (also wished that it was finished).

Well, if we're going to redesign the feel of the MegaPack, we need to think of gameplay styles for each of the factions.

Norse - Offense (and how!)

That's the only one I can think of, how should the other factions play?