Generic MG Refit Discussion (renamed)

[Omega]

I think having this kind of discussions is fine... sometimes.
At least it could serve to stimulate a community some. It seems community activity recently (especially modding section) is very dead. So even a discussion about less possible plan is better than nothing.　hmn... How should I put it? well,  Even a dead tree brings prosperity to the mountain.

Well, I'd think we'd be best off planning things out carefully before we do any modding. After all, if it's going to be a community effort, it will become a mess VERY quickly if we don't  have a strong plan from the start.

As well, personally, part of the problem I see with the MegaPack is that all the factions are just random. We got a bunch of steampunk medieval guys, some mages with demons and dragons, a real-life based Egyptian faction, an Indian faction stereotypic right down to its name, a bunch of viking guys mixed up with random norse mythology figures, and a bunch of persians with flying carpets and the cast of Arabian Nights. Diversity is fine, but what's linking these all together?

And some of the factions, such as Indian and Norsemen, have a very large number of units that are merely retextured magitech units. If a mod tries that today, it'll get lumped in a pile of a dozen other retextures.

[-Archmage-]

Hage: I did that some, but never released it due to the source files getting messed up. I am solid on my opinion that MegaPack needs much more than an art upgrade, and minor adjustments. It honestly feels like it brings little new, especially these days it's been around for ages!

I don't like the randomity of the factions, my idea is to restructure them more sensably taking out the over fantastical units, and get back to the more serious style of Magitech that was so addicting.

I love the story ideas Omega, some of the names are a little weird but those are simple to change as you stated.

The reason I prefer skype is it's a fast network that tons of people already have, irc channels don't support voice chatting do they?

@Omega Animation: I can teach you. Perhaps I'll make a tutorial...

I actually think that Indians and Norsemen are among the better of the factions.. But in my opinion almost all Megapack content will need to be either enhanced or remade, especially the animations.

[Hagekura]

Wow you made a quite a big post while I post. The map is very interesting. I'll read the detailed storyline you made carefully afterward.

I think having this kind of discussions is fine... sometimes.
At least it could serve to stimulate a community some. It seems community activity recently (especially modding section) is very dead. So even a discussion about less possible plan is better than nothing.　hmn... How should I put it? well,  Even a dead tree brings prosperity to the mountain.

Well, I'd think we'd be best off planning things out carefully before we do any modding. After all, if it's going to be a community effort, it will become a mess VERY quickly if we don't  have a strong plan from the start.

As well, personally, part of the problem I see with the MegaPack is that all the factions are just random. We got a bunch of steampunk medieval guys, some mages with demons and dragons, a real-life based Egyptian faction, an Indian faction stereotypic right down to its name, a bunch of viking guys mixed up with random norse mythology figures, and a bunch of persians with flying carpets and the cast of Arabian Nights. Diversity is fine, but what's linking these all together?

And some of the factions, such as Indian and Norsemen, have a very large number of units that are merely retextured magitech units. If a mod tries that today, it'll get lumped in a pile of a dozen other retextures.

Certainly, An unified view of the world will bring strong enchantment to the techtree.

[Omega]

I love the story ideas Omega, some of the names are a little weird but those are simple to change as you stated.

The names are all grabbed from random name generators. Presumably whatever we go with, the names of factions are the easiest to change and we'd have months to come up with a finished name.

The reason I prefer skype is it's a fast network that tons of people already have, irc channels don't support voice chatting do they?

I'm really not a fan of voice though. Myself, I have a hearing loss that makes it impossible to understand people over voice chat, not to mention the Glest community is really diverse. In addition to timezone difficulties, we have a diverse set of accents and the like. Not to mention multiple people talking at once is a royal pain.

@Omega Animation: I can teach you. Perhaps I'll make a tutorial...

Do ittttt.

I actually think that Indians and Norsemen are among the better of the factions.. But in my opinion almost all Megapack content will need to be either enhanced or remade, especially the animations.

Well, they're a bit less random, maybe, but they have lower quality media, in my opinion. Lots of magitech retextured models, stiff animations on the unique models, low quality artwork (particularly icons), etc. It was good for its time, but its time was long ago.

[-Archmage-]

Names can be finished later. We just need a clear idea of what's to be done.

How about we communicate however we can, and set a dedicated topic for art and gameplay updates so people can watch our progress.

@Tutorial: I'm pretty bad at tutorials but maybe I'll give it a try... After the rig though I think that's where people are doing it wrong. I'll make 2 tutorials maybe..

I just played a game with Indians, yea it could use massive amounts of work but the tone of the faction is good and enjoyable. Except what really annoys me is how it takes 20 arrows to kill a freaking battlemage. I think that's something we need to address, a LOT higher damage so the battles have more realistic amounts of dying. Along with 5x building health and strength so a little man with a stick doesn't piledrive my poor little castle.

[Perplesso]

A seriously organized, well balanced and and complex techtree for Glest is a great idea. But what about mods? Also these need a serious reorganization:
- too many single factions, which could be grouped;
- too many small techtrees, which could be combined into more complex ones;
- some unfinished factions, whose models could be included in other ones;
and so on. The basic idea could be: what if Glest world would be divided into "continents"? Or "planets"? Each one represented by a techtree?

[-Archmage-]

A seriously organized, well balanced and and complex techtree for Glest is a great idea. But what about mods? Also these need a serious reorganization:
- too many single factions, which could be grouped;
- too many small techtrees, which could be combined into more complex ones;
- some unfinished factions, whose models could be included in other ones;
and so on. The basic idea could be: what if Glest world would be divided into "continents"? Or "planets"? Each one represented by a techtree?

Ideas are good man, but we're already talking grandscale complete reform and makeover of MG tech tree. I think we'll just be sticking with this techtree, if we can even get it done.

[Pizza90]

Megaglest as "game engine" evolved in these years, most of the megapack factions didn't. Romans have some of the recent features, but the rest of the faction dont.

Making new animations, replacing old/ugly texture with better ones, improving models and so on are all things that surely will help megaglest, but we (as community) can't pretend that titi or softcoder work on it, there are many good artists here they should work together to implement the changes (that should be approved by the team and by the community).

We could organize the community in "groups" like:

animation group: people who make the animations of the models
story group: people who write various plots for each factions (then after a poll the best plot win)
texturing group: people who texture the models
modelling group: people who make the models

and so on. (by the way i am willing to be the part of the story group )

Of course to do this we need people willing to work on it.

I support the fact of having 1 techtree, and i still dont understand why you are able do download mods from the mod centre which are not compatible with the main techtree! The "average user" expects to download a mod and play it, without getting compatibility errors. (it's like finding ie addons in the mozilla addons site!)

[-Archmage-]

I'm only gonna pitch in if we restructure the factions into new factions like omega and I suggested/elaborated on.
a simple art upgrade isn't gonna do it, and isn't going to encourage me to work on it.

[Perplesso]

I'm only gonna pitch in if we restructure the factions into new factions like omega and I suggested/elaborated on.
a simple art upgrade isn't gonna do it, and isn't going to encourage me to work on it.

I agree, they should be rethought. But "Magic faction" and "Tech(nological) faction", in my opinion, should only be renamed, because they already have a well defined identity, and their flavour is already "legendary-medieval", like in original Glest storyline. Other factions, instead, are too much historically based to fit into this base philosophy, and their identity is... a "copy" of existing historical identities.

[-Archmage-]

I think the other factions stray to far from history. Too many fantastical units that distract from the feeling. But yea pure history and magitech won't mix. That's where the whole restructuring + historical elements + a little mild fantasy will create the perfect blend! 

[Zoythrus]

I'd like to become a part of the "story" group (I used to be a writer). I also plan on assisting Softcoder and Titi in coding, for I have some C++ experience (although I prefer Java).

Oh, and Omega, I really liked your story framework! There is something I would like to mention, though, and that's about the Norsemen and their lack of ranged units. The game "Age of Mythology" gave me a really great idea that I think should be implemented. The Norse there were still melee fighters, but they did have a ranged infantry - that did melee damage! He was an axe thrower, and his axes did melee damage as well as got a good bonus against flying units. Really, that's why they can't be a solely melee faction, because then they'd have no way of combating air units (assuming that we'll still have those).

And Archmage, about 20+ arrows killing a Battle Mage, that is a little extreme, but we could handwave it by saying that he has a "magical shield" that lessens the effects of ranged weapons.

So, where's this Google Doc?

[-Archmage-]

I'd rather just boost the attacks a lot, the way they hack and get hit by all sorts of deadly things and just stand there and take it again and again before they die is just ridiculous! 2-3 arrow hits should kill the average unit. Same with melee.

[Zoythrus]

Well, you also have to keep scale in mind. Because there are smaller armies, units have to last a little longer than usual. I would suggest 4-6 arrows should kill a battle mage. It's small enough to be believable, but large enough to let your guys last more than 3 seconds on the battlefield.

EDIT: I noticed that the MG menu just seems....overwhelming, especially the options menu. Is there any way that we can make it simpler?

[tomreyn]

It's great what this thread is starting to evolve into, something creative and positive. I really appreciate to see this (after the somewhat negative beginning).
If interested, I'll be happy to help testing and packaging new mods which will come out of this.

Keep going, this can grow into something big!

[Zoythrus]

Hey, due to my love of the Norse (and my related heritage), I would like to lead their redevelopment.

I honestly think that we should completely redo them! After playing a game with them, they are completely unbalanced with the rest of the factions (in a bad way). Besides that, many of the units have very overlapping jobs. Oh, how I wished that MG did tooltips, so then I could know what each unit did!

[-Archmage-]

It's great what this thread is starting to evolve into, something creative and positive. I really appreciate to see this (after the somewhat negative beginning).
If interested, I'll be happy to help testing and packaging new mods which will come out of this.

Keep going, this can grow into something big!

Gotta dig into the ground to plant the seed!

We're going to need more skilled artists, this is such a large undertaking.

I'm going to start a new topic specifically for showcasing new content and to contain the roster and plan of popular choice. That will be the first foothold in a long journey to make MG a beastly game.

[Zoythrus]

More artists? I've asked Seanachaidh if he wants to come back, and he said that he'll think about it. Who wants to help me spam his email? 

[titi]

I just want to mention, that I welcome such a project! ( But I will not have much time to help )
If you have something playable , just call and we will happily upload it to the Mod-Center to make more people play/test it .( but it should really be playable then )
This is what the mod-center was made for and maybe if it gets better than original megapack one day, it will replace it or it will be part of MG too.

[-Archmage-]

Glad to hear it Titi!

maybe if it gets better than original megapack one day, it will replace it or it will be part of MG too.

The entire point of this project is to be better than the megapack and replace it.

[victorj]

This work is extremely great wonder, I wanted to give you a hint, but is only a hint, you could follow more faithfully the basis of historical faction?, Such as the faction "Japanese", but how to do this with "units air "?
   Simple, we must apply the story, only the units that fit well with whom, what I mean exatamenente, we can merge with mitlogia and history, as there is already being done in some factions, but it is still "means" disorganized, because the megapack still had many original models magictech, this mix of mythology with history is to me what else is different and leaves megaglest more fun than other RTS classics.

The opinion is given, you can like it or not , but I really want to thank this great community effort.

[Zoythrus]

Glad to hear it Titi!

maybe if it gets better than original megapack one day, it will replace it or it will be part of MG too.

The entire point of this project is to be better than the megapack and replace it.

The entire point of this project is to make MG actually fun. We want to see Glest rise again to its former glory.

[Omega]

This work is extremely great wonder, I wanted to give you a hint, but is only a hint, you could follow more faithfully the basis of historical faction?, Such as the faction "Japanese", but how to do this with "units air "?
   Simple, we must apply the story, only the units that fit well with whom, what I mean exatamenente, we can merge with mitlogia and history, as there is already being done in some factions, but it is still "means" disorganized, because the megapack still had many original models magictech, this mix of mythology with history is to me what else is different and leaves megaglest more fun than other RTS classics.

The opinion is given, you can like it or not , but I really want to thank this great community effort.

Do you really expect a historical techtree when the factions contain giant death robots powered by steam, dragons, and flying carpets? I do agree, though, that there needs to be an in-game universe tying all the factions together, rather than just a bunch of random factions. I proposed my concept already.

[MightyMic]

This and a story would make a "campaign" much easier to create. We could choose a "good" faction and have the campaign play from that perspective. Each level of the campaign would be in a different territory with a different tile set. With the added video feature, we might even add trailers between the levels to help tell the story...

Take for instance, if the Brotherhood were the good guys. In the campaign when they attack the Wizard's Republic, the map would be mountainous and the tileset slightly snowy (maybe frost peak). When they attack Woodsmen, the map would be mostly forest and have a forest tileset... obviously.
Just something I was thinking about

[victorj]

Do you really expect a historical techtree when the factions contain giant death robots powered by steam, dragons, and flying carpets? I do agree, though, that there needs to be an in-game universe tying all the factions together, rather than just a bunch of random factions. I proposed my concept already.

Omega, I totally agree with what do you say, I want to emphasize, I wrote this before reading that topic from your post and concept, slightly change my opnion, I am very happy with o'que you are planning, I pity I can not really contribute to that, I also wanted to say that I think I made a mistake responding here, if so, I apologize, "this thread is meant more for updates and to showcase stuff".