Poll

What would your home server have to provide to make you pay USD 100 for it?

Local file shares and backup to USB drives/flash, web based management (like your existing router)
0 (0%)
All of this plus: WLAN router
0 (0%)
All of this plus: ad-free webmail (remotely accessible), file + image hosting (access restricted downloads for your Internet friends)
0 (0%)
All of this plus: e-mail anti-spam/-virus proxy, web anti-spam/-virus proxy, Tor entry point (from LAN only)
2 (40%)
All of option 4 plus: Internet telephony server (can be used with separate LAN/WLAN attached VoIP handset or wired headset)
0 (0%)
All of option 4 plus: web hosting (webserver + PHP + sqlite)
0 (0%)
All of option 4 plus: e-mail en-/decryption gateway (works with anyone using OpenPGP)
0 (0%)
All of option 4 plus: VPN gateway, allowing secure access to all running computers in your LAN from abroad
0 (0%)
(Almost) none of this sounds useful to me.
0 (0%)
This sounds useful to me, but the price is still too high.
3 (60%)

Total Members Voted: 4

Author Topic: Your personal home server, which also runs a MegaGlest game server...  (Read 1962 times)

tomreyn

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As you know, one of the issues with broader adoption of MegaGlest is the lack of always-on / dedicated / headless servers. This is what made me play some mind games (and this is really all this is about, not a serious offer now or any time in the foreseeable future) about shipping pre-installed mini home servers to people with a reliable Internet connection who are willing to host network games.

Obviously someone would have to pay for (at least) the hardware there. Since the total donations MegaGlest received so far alot to 0.7 bitcoins + 8 USD those are not going to pay for it. So the other option is to provide added value by means of software running on such a home server (in addition to a MegaGlest server) and possibly simple remotely hosted services, convincing people to want such a gadget for their homes.

However, even then the price tag for the plain hardware (incl. enclosure) is still at ~100 USD incl. shipping. So I'm wondering which added features it would take for you to buy such a device.

Just to give you an idea what such a device could look like (and what size it is - what you see on the left are LAN and USB connectors):

atibox: Ryzen 1800X (8 cores @3.6GHz), 32 GB RAM, MSI Radeon RX 580 Gaming X 8G, PCI subsystem ID [1462:3417], (Radeon RX 580 chipset, POLARIS10) @3440x1440; latest stable Ubuntu release, (open source) radeon (amdgpu) / mesa video driver
atibox (old): Core2Quad Q9400 (4 cores @2.66GHz), 8 GB RAM, XFX HD-467X-DDF2, PCI subsystem ID [1682:2931], (Radeon HD 4670, RV730 XT) @1680x1050; latest stable Ubuntu release, (open source) radeon / mesa video driver
notebook: HP envy13d020ng
internet access: VDSL2+

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-Archmage-

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Why can't a computer just host a game?

The issue with this is, nobody really wants people leeching on their internet speed.
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will

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Remind me again what kind of CPU/RAM/net a single server would need?

I have one hobby VPS and its got 1 virtual core, 256MB RAM and 5 GB/month network.

And I run a git server on it.  So if anyone knows enough linux to tell me how to set up accounting so that I can give a glest server a max of 128MB RAM and 3GB/month net, I could make it available.

tomreyn

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Why can't a computer just host a game?

To provide a stable service, you need to do so on a computer which is not impacted by varying workloads. Ideally this systems should also be online (and connected to the Internet) 24/7. A desktop computer usually sees varying workloads, which can very much impact the gameserver and the players' experience. You usually want to shut it down at nights, too, or when you stop using it, which makes sense since desktops usually draw a lot more power than such a s small factor home server, which will usually consume way less than 10W.

The issue with this is, nobody really wants people leeching on their internet speed.

Well MegaGlest really only consumes very little bandwidth, so for the very most connections you would not ever notice it. Traffic shaping would be good to setup on your router if it supports it, but unless you fully load your line regularly, that's not too much of a concern.

Remind me again what kind of CPU/RAM/net a single server would need?

Well at least a CPU comparable to a single core x86_64 gigahertz CPU would be good to have, this can be partially spread if you have more cores, but still you want a minimum comparable to an 800 MHz ARMv5 per core there. For memory, I guess you can get away with 500 MB system RAM is you run a standard Linux 3.x image, though 1 GB would be better if you run other services there, too. Both CPU and memory allocation surely depend much on the number of players and map size you have there.

I have one hobby VPS and its got 1 virtual core, 256MB RAM and 5 GB/month network.

And I run a git server on it.  So if anyone knows enough linux to tell me how to set up accounting so that I can give a glest server a max of 128MB RAM and 3GB/month net, I could make it available.

Not enough RAM. Linux will already eat a remarkable part of it. The virtual CPU may also be insufficient, depending on what it is backed by and how the slicing is setup. Thanks for the offer, though.

http://wiki.megaglest.org/Dedicated_Server

The system configuration I had in mind for this home server is an ARMv6 single or dual core with 0.5 or 1 GB RAM which draws about 5 watts average, that's about what you get at this price tag - taking into account that you also need storage, enclosure, cooling, wiring, handling / shipping fees, and - should anything be left - maybe even a minor donation to the projects involved.

To compare:
The lightest netbook (with integrated graphics, single multi-core CPU, 1 RAM chip, SSD) costs about 300 USD, lasts for 3-5 years, and draws about 10 watts minimum (not average).
The lightest desktop (with integrated graphics, single multi-core CPU, 1 RAM chip, single HDD, monitor, wired keyboard + mouse) costs about 350 USD, lasts for 6-8 years, starts at about 40 watts (this may be lower now, I haven't looked into this for a while).
« Last Edit: 3 September 2013, 16:55:33 by tomreyn »
atibox: Ryzen 1800X (8 cores @3.6GHz), 32 GB RAM, MSI Radeon RX 580 Gaming X 8G, PCI subsystem ID [1462:3417], (Radeon RX 580 chipset, POLARIS10) @3440x1440; latest stable Ubuntu release, (open source) radeon (amdgpu) / mesa video driver
atibox (old): Core2Quad Q9400 (4 cores @2.66GHz), 8 GB RAM, XFX HD-467X-DDF2, PCI subsystem ID [1682:2931], (Radeon HD 4670, RV730 XT) @1680x1050; latest stable Ubuntu release, (open source) radeon / mesa video driver
notebook: HP envy13d020ng
internet access: VDSL2+

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biel

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Re: Your personal home server, which also runs a MegaGlest game server...
« Reply #4 on: 13 September 2013, 18:52:22 »
So, the idea is about creating a device of the size of a router containing a light and linux-based computer that runs a MG server? Does this kind of thevices exist? Or do you want to create it yourself? Also, how will you distribute this to the user who is going to host?

It's a crazy (or better say "random") but good idea!!

tomreyn

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Re: Your personal home server, which also runs a MegaGlest game server...
« Reply #5 on: 13 September 2013, 20:00:05 »
It's indeed just an idea. If there were a couple people who wanted this it could maybe become a reality, but I don't see this happening at this time, based on the amount of votes this has received.

Such devices exist, the price is realistic IF development time does not go into the equation. I.e. any programming would have to be done voluntarily or pre-existing software (to provide the described functionality, and to manage the device and operating system) would have to be re-used - which should be possible for the most part.

Distribution would be pretty classic: snail mail. ;-) There are distributors who sell these devices, allow you to provide them with an image which they pre-install, and they also do the shippng for you (both obviously needs to be paid for, but this is included in the given price already - assuming the number of devices sold would reach certain numbers).
atibox: Ryzen 1800X (8 cores @3.6GHz), 32 GB RAM, MSI Radeon RX 580 Gaming X 8G, PCI subsystem ID [1462:3417], (Radeon RX 580 chipset, POLARIS10) @3440x1440; latest stable Ubuntu release, (open source) radeon (amdgpu) / mesa video driver
atibox (old): Core2Quad Q9400 (4 cores @2.66GHz), 8 GB RAM, XFX HD-467X-DDF2, PCI subsystem ID [1682:2931], (Radeon HD 4670, RV730 XT) @1680x1050; latest stable Ubuntu release, (open source) radeon / mesa video driver
notebook: HP envy13d020ng
internet access: VDSL2+

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will

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Re: Your personal home server, which also runs a MegaGlest game server...
« Reply #6 on: 13 September 2013, 22:41:10 »
To be honest, the cheapest options are never sexy:

1) find someone at a university or with free bandwidth who can dedicate some old and otherwise un-utilised computer to be a server 24x7

2) use any money raised for mg to pay for cloud VPS hosting.  I think Amazon even have a free tier, but I know little about it.

biel

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Re: Your personal home server, which also runs a MegaGlest game server...
« Reply #7 on: 14 September 2013, 08:49:49 »
Yes, that sounds like a good idea but i think the game has to get more players and improve its content. Another option could be creating an auto-updatable device with an api that allows all games in the Free Game alliance to use it.

Anyways good idea! If it ends to be released, i'm going to offer to get one of it in my home!

tomreyn

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Re: Your personal home server, which also runs a MegaGlest game server...
« Reply #8 on: 14 September 2013, 11:45:56 »
To be honest, the cheapest options are never sexy:

1) find someone at a university or with free bandwidth who can dedicate some old and otherwise un-utilised computer to be a server 24x7

Right, this would be the best option. I don't care too much about gadgets really (but I know others do, so this is a "selling point"), whatever works is fine. Sadly I do not know someone who would be able to place an old computer somewhere where rackspace, bandwidth and power are "free" (and where those resources are not used for other projects which are deemed more importantly already).

2) use any money raised for mg to pay for cloud VPS hosting.  I think Amazon even have a free tier, but I know little about it.

This would be the easiest option, but there are not enough donations to make paying even 10 USD for a VPS sustainable. The free-for-one-year tiers of Amazon, Azure and others are not an option because they provide insufficient memory. The only remaining option would be sponsorships. Initially we tried not to depend so much on these but this has changed a bit since, but we're still trying to keep it small. I'm not sure there's any company who would offer free hosting to an open source game, but have also not tried to find out. There are two more options I'm aware of, namely OSUOSL and TuxFamily, but I assume the former may not be so much into gaming and the latter are already quite stuffed (and mostly do shared hosting while we'd essentially need VPS).

And then I like the idea of distributed infrastructure (but it's true, I also like stable and reliable servers and hosted services, and this rarely goes together well).
atibox: Ryzen 1800X (8 cores @3.6GHz), 32 GB RAM, MSI Radeon RX 580 Gaming X 8G, PCI subsystem ID [1462:3417], (Radeon RX 580 chipset, POLARIS10) @3440x1440; latest stable Ubuntu release, (open source) radeon (amdgpu) / mesa video driver
atibox (old): Core2Quad Q9400 (4 cores @2.66GHz), 8 GB RAM, XFX HD-467X-DDF2, PCI subsystem ID [1682:2931], (Radeon HD 4670, RV730 XT) @1680x1050; latest stable Ubuntu release, (open source) radeon / mesa video driver
notebook: HP envy13d020ng
internet access: VDSL2+

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MightyMic

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Re: Your personal home server, which also runs a MegaGlest game server...
« Reply #9 on: 17 September 2013, 22:20:21 »
I don't  know if this is even related, but slashdot just posted this article... http://m.slashdot.org/story/191727
Might lower the requirements for a server if we could get MegaGlest running on this