Author Topic: Continuous mode (dead factions replaced by new ones)  (Read 920 times)

MirceaKitsune

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Continuous mode (dead factions replaced by new ones)
« on: 30 September 2013, 17:48:08 »
Someone close once told me that a reason they don't like RTS games is because you always build everything just to start over again. I remembered that as I was thinking of an idea for MG earlier today. I doubt this would be possible to do in practice, but still wanted to comment the idea.

When you destroy all enemy players, you get a message saying "You have won, press OK to quit". But what if there was a way to have a game that never ends? Whenever you defeat your enemies, new ones appear, who also develop and eventually fight you. This could be achieved by having each defeated player start over again instead of being booted from the game, with the default units and resources. In single player, people could save such games and play them for as long as they want like a story. In multiplayer, people could fight over conquering a map for weeks, each defeated player having the ability to return and build a new nation which will fight the victorious player again. Unfortunately there are at least two major issues which likely make this impossible:

First one is that a new player would be severely underpowered on a map where an evolved player already exists. We couldn't simply have a faction with one castle & 3 workers appear, when a player which has an army of hundreds could simply walk to them and wipe them out in a second. There would need to be some way to keep the victorious player from harming a newly created player until they're strong enough, but any way I can imagine would be an ugly hack.

Second issue is resources. Supposing the defeated player already mined all the gold at his spawn location, the new nation taking his place wouldn't have any gold to mine. So the only way would be all resources getting reset whenever a new faction "arrives" to the map. But what if a building or unit is standing where a forest that was harvested used to be, when attempting to place the trees back? Once again, likely impossible since any solution would be weird.

Still, I'm hoping the idea might be inspiring and someone could think of a system for a "continuous mode". In real life, every empire that fell had another taking its place. Either a larger empire divided itself, or new people came and made their own. Being able to simulate this in Glest games would be pretty neat :)

MoLAoS

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Re: Continuous mode (dead factions replaced by new ones)
« Reply #1 on: 30 September 2013, 20:14:44 »
Honestly that is not really a feature for an RTS game. Maybe you should play some paradox games. That style is more suited to grand strategy.

I am doing a much longer game length in my project, like 8 hours a map or something but, its not an RTS really and its not even 1/10th the length of a paradox game.

As far as respawning players, this won't work because the living player would simply have armies all over the map. The map sizes in Glest derivatives are WAY too small for this. If you want to avoid building up each time just have a scenario where players start with a ton of stuff or something.

You should consider that maybe you shouldn't want a single game/engine to contain what are essentially dozens of different games.

TBS, Grand Strategy, RTS, Wargames, Citybuilders and so forth really need to stay in their own genres because mix and match rarely works well.

Ishmaru

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Re: Continuous mode (dead factions replaced by new ones)
« Reply #2 on: 30 September 2013, 23:57:09 »
I think this could be very possible via a scenario, and I do agree a map should be bigger at least 256. to solve the power difference each empire should spawn larger than previous empires.

I think it's an interesting idea.
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MirceaKitsune

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Re: Continuous mode (dead factions replaced by new ones)
« Reply #3 on: 1 October 2013, 09:13:03 »
I think this could be very possible via a scenario, and I do agree a map should be bigger at least 256. to solve the power difference each empire should spawn larger than previous empires.

I think it's an interesting idea.

Ah, yes. Lua might be able to do this already... it should have the scripting functions needed. And sure, the map needs to be big enough for this to work out well.

Omega

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Re: Continuous mode (dead factions replaced by new ones)
« Reply #4 on: 1 October 2013, 16:22:12 »
I think this could be very possible via a scenario, and I do agree a map should be bigger at least 256. to solve the power difference each empire should spawn larger than previous empires.

I think it's an interesting idea.

Ah, yes. Lua might be able to do this already... it should have the scripting functions needed. And sure, the map needs to be big enough for this to work out well.
Well, technically, Lua can do this, but there's complications. For example, we'd have to create a new base for the enemy (or enemies) after the previous ones were defeated. The problem is that the player may already have units located where we'd spawn the new base, which looks unusual.

There's also the problem of resources, since Lua does not allow resources to be changed (well, you can give actual resources, but you can't place them on the map).

In order to ensure that the enemy scales well, you'd need to have handlers on every unit creation and death, so that you can count the number of units the player has, and size the enemy bases appropriately.
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MoLAoS

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Re: Continuous mode (dead factions replaced by new ones)
« Reply #5 on: 1 October 2013, 17:37:09 »
You would need a 1024x1024 map AT LEAST for this to be at all viable. Also since late game would last so long the unit counts would be huge.

Not sure most computers could really handle something like that.

Omega

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Re: Continuous mode (dead factions replaced by new ones)
« Reply #6 on: 1 October 2013, 17:46:14 »
You would need a 1024x1024 map AT LEAST for this to be at all viable. Also since late game would last so long the unit counts would be huge.

Not sure most computers could really handle something like that.
Not necessarily, especially if limits are imposed on the maximum number of units at any given time.
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