[done]health bars (old topic relaunch!)

[FreshDumbledore]

One more approach on the health bar / 'how-to-show-selections' topic.
Technically, health bars could be done easily.
Last time the topic was discussed (i found some thread here in the forums) there was resistance against them, but at least titi gave that resistance up :-)

I would like them - as optional xml tag to be enabled or disabled.
This questions should be cleared before (some i see, feel free to add more ):
* Do we want them at all?
* Do we want them to be enabled in options, xml or both? Options would make it a player choice, xml a modder choice (im in favor of both, so if either options or xml tells to enable health bars display them).
* How to deal with overlapping bars, unit selection, different heigths?
* Should it be the well known standard bars or something else / what should they look like?
* Should they be displayed only for selected units or for all.. or make that an option too?
 
regards

[titi]

ideas:

health bars should be:
enabled by an xml tag whith more options:

1: enabled: never|always|on selection 
1.1:  Show them "on damage" only

2: height: by default something based on given unit height but it should be able to set something individual

3: a way how the health bar is shown: 
- in selection circle
- as real toolbar on top
- ( and later maybe as segmented circle or extra circle inside showing the damage )

[Coldfusionstorm]

Im asking for health bars like these in these videos.

Units health bars

Code: [Select]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=hW2vVbJSi2E#t=3552
Building health bars

Code: [Select]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=hW2vVbJSi2E#t=2549
Alsoa  +1 til titis 1.1

That's really all there is to it, And a way to define it in the code via a single value if the modder choses to do a fullscale mod.

[titi]

There are several bars shown above the buildings, we should start with one at a time ;-)

[Coldfusionstorm]

These are mana and shield for these paticular units.

but yes, Im just starting with a Vision, Then we can take the implementation one step at a time .

[FreshDumbledore]

So, before this idea gets forgotten again, how about we start making a bar floating above a unit, only shown on selection, displaying HP and EP?

we can still extend it to optional 'always show' and 'show on damage' later.

[Coldfusionstorm]

I agree, It's also a good starting point for adjusting how it should look "baseline" i recommend a bar like in the videos with small fractions of hp.

[Ishmaru]

I agree, It's also a good starting point for adjusting how it should look "baseline" i recommend a bar like in the videos with small fractions of hp.

How about we just make a system that can define a series of .png files (or whatever) as a health bar then cycle through them depending on health (or ep) amount. This will allow modders to design their own health bars, rather than a single hard coded one.

[Coldfusionstorm]

A interesting idea, but what exactly would you mod in a health bar?. The colours?, That could be added in the tag/health tag options file.

Anyhow, Yes for now just a basic floating healthbar over units (buildings are also units btw).( i still like the bars inside be chopped up like in the video in small healthblocks).

 

Thanks for working on this FreshDumbledore

[Omega]

I think that health bars would be better off as a *player* option, not a mod option.

However, setting the height may be an issue. One solution is to always display the health bar above the height. So if the unit's height is correctly configured, a health bar should always be visible (although it may be too high). This would mean that health bars could be enabled by the player to work with existing mods. I'm assuming, however, that the health bar is an actual bar.

The selection circle *should* work too. As far as I know, the majority of units are appropriately sized so that they won't overlap with the selection circle, and using the selection circle won't have issues with height. Only problem is that using the selection circle as a health bar means removing the means of figuring out which units are selected. Thus, I think we should use *just* the actual bar, and use the selection circle purely to show that something is selected.

I also think that the health bar display options should be toggleable by a hotkey (switching between the display modes that Titi mentioned). Thus, we can quickly turn the health bars on and off in real time.

[jammyjamjamman]

Currently in MG you can tell (but only when the unit is selected) what the health of a unit is by the colour of its ring (this can be helpful if you've multi-selected). If you were to add a health bar, I'd also ask for this ring-colour feature to be removed; It's hard to tell if you've selected the unit when the unit's health is low because the ring becomes very dark.

[Omega]

If you were to add a health bar, I'd also ask for this ring-colour feature to be removed; It's hard to tell if you've selected the unit when the unit's health is low because the ring becomes very dark.

Agreed. The ring can be used to show selection, only.

[titi_son]

I just wanted to note that the HP-Bar doesnt need to be a 2d texture. I think a 3d bar which is not affected by light would look very nice too! In Addition, this would make the bar very changeable and the modder can not only make bars but everything. For example a ring which shows the hp like a clock or a bubble which size is affected by the hp.
So the hp-percentage says which frame of the model is shown!

[Coldfusionstorm]

I think that health bars would be better off as a *player* option, not a mod option.

At least make it both then, so that a mod can specify the default style of selection in the glest.ini file.

[FreshDumbledore]

I just wanted to note that the HP-Bar doesnt need to be a 2d texture. I think a 3d bar which is not affected by light would look very nice too! In Addition, this would make the bar very changeable and the modder can not only make bars but everything. For example a ring which shows the hp like a clock or a bubble which size is affected by the hp.
So the hp-percentage says which frame of the model is shown!

Very nice idea. I think mg should offer an official default bar then but modders can overwrite it with their own g3d if they want

[titi_son]

Thats why i made a new topic

[titi_son]

screen1
screen2 

Soooo
What about the xml tags now
in techtree,units or in options menu?
Do we want ep-bars (like in the second picture) ?
Do we only want the bars when the units is selected?
Should the width depend on the unit size?

I would suggest them in techtree. The width depends on unit-size and there are ep-bars. But i am not sure about the selection thing.

[John.d.h]

screen1
screen2 

That looks so much worse than what we have now.  Is there any benefit at all to doing this?  The only reason I know of is "it's what everybody else does", which is, if anything, a better reason not to do it.  (Mega)Glest is one of the few RTS games that don't use health bars.  That gives it a little bit of differentiation, so when you see a screenshot you know that it's not Age of ConquerCraft.  They also make it easier to tell which unit they belong to, especially when two units overlap (like a person walking through a building).  They also show the bounds of a unit, which is a nice bonus because most other games in the genre have a separate outline for that.  The rings take care of showing the health, EP, and radius of a unit, instead of having to have two different things to do that job.  The rings also aren't dependent on the unit's height, which can be important when it comes to viewing tall buildings at an angle, where a health bar could potentially be out of view because it's up so high.

Strictly speaking, it doesn't hurt to have the option, but if there's the option then somebody might actually use it.

[Coldfusionstorm]

Awesome, is this in GIT?, This looks really nice, Screenshot two is really good.

[FreshDumbledore]

@John: there is a simple reason why  'everybody else does it'. With healthbars on top you can actually see the HP. Period :-)

I like the 2nd image too

[FreshDumbledore]

@Titi_son: i like them with ep, width like you did (depending on unit width) and would make them a player choice. Maybe defaulting to on-for-selected but possible to change that in the options and with a hotkey.. Should be part of some tutorial how to adjust settings like that then

[titi]

some thoughts abput this:

Circles vs healthbars: I have the same feelings like John d.h. , but there are some points which make trouble with the rings:
color: currently the rings show red color for enemies, yellow color for teammates ( blue for ressources )
This means you cannot have a colorchange for the circles in case of damage, without getting mixed up with other collections. 
Showing only parts of the selection cicle is also no option, as this shows, as the name says, the selection too.
Maybe there is a way to show selection and health state with circles ??

Features I can imagine for the health bars:
In the unit xml you should be able to specify:
- position of the health bar ( heights and left/right )
- size of the health bar ( width and length )
- a texture which surrounds the health bars ( and this means no borders for the healthbars like it is now )

Maybe those settings can be done using Omegas tags-feature somehow? Or these settings should also be available for a whole faction ( for those who make sense ) 

more options are:
- show HP-bar:  for selected/always/never/on damage

But as I mentioned before, maybe someone has an idea how to show the health state with the circles in a more visible way?

[Ishmaru]

Personally I love them, like the border and the color change when hp is low. I want them even if it means just as an option in the menu.

I think before you go changing anything, I think a test/patch should be released so we can see test it ourselves before we praise or condemn it.

[GunChleoc]

How about having two circles, an outer one for selection/team color and an inner one for EP/health. Or vice versa.

[FreshDumbledore]

The main problem with circles, in my opinion, is that its hard to see the hp of units that stand in the middle / behind other units. So its also hard to manage units like retreating with low hp units to allow them to recover and so on

I think hp above units is way better for this. Its default in most games for a reason x)