Author Topic: Units reaching the meeting point get killed because they are not in attack mode  (Read 1896 times)

Pizza90

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As per title. I noticed how the units that get created from the building to where they reach the meeting point they just walk. if they get attacked they don't answer til they reach the point. You may say "just put the meeting point closer to your base" but that does not work well, especially if you are under siege even a short distance is enough to have your units going towards the meeting point and getting butchered by the enemy before they have time to counter-attack

I think it would be good if units going from the building to the meeting point are able to counter attack if they get attacked, after the enemy is killed they could proceed to reach the meeting point
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filux

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Yep idea sounds good in case when meeting point is set in short distance from the building,
but in case long distance imo it will kill management in many battles  :( e.g.:
"set meeting point in the opponent's base > click click click.../produce as many units you can > end game".

titi

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I prefer the walk to meeting point instead of instant attack. By this you can tell the produced archers to walk to a good place( behind a building for example) before starting to attack.
For melee attacking units its a bit different. On the one hand you can first make a small group of for example stickfighters before they attack so they don't get killed one after abother. On the other hand you maybe just need these stickfighters immidiatly in attack mode in front to give your archers time to shoot.

Maybe the real problem is another: Current default meeting points are on top left of the building no matter where the entrance is. Maybe this is somethingt o think about to fix this ?
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andy_5995

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As per title. I noticed how the units that get created from the building to where they reach the meeting point they just walk. if they get attacked they don't answer til they reach the point. You may say "just put the meeting point closer to your base" but that does not work well, especially if you are under siege even a short distance is enough to have your units going towards the meeting point and getting butchered by the enemy before they have time to counter-attack

I think it would be good if units going from the building to the meeting point are able to counter attack if they get attacked, after the enemy is killed they could proceed to reach the meeting point

Where I really get hammered is when I change the meeting point to an area I am sure is secure, but then suddenly it's overrun. I then have to change the meeting point on several different barracks while trying to fight battles, and losing new units that walk right into the battle without fighting (because it's difficult to direct each new incoming unit to attack or to go some place else)

-Archmage-

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I think just switching units to attack mode based on whether they are attacked might fix the problem.

This would also resolve units getting hit from outside their site range and just sitting there until they die.
« Last Edit: 16 June 2016, 23:35:46 by -Archmage- »
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jammyjamjamman

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Re: toggle auto-attack mode
« Reply #5 on: 23 February 2017, 19:35:52 »
The idea with newly created units to go into attack mode is good,

But the idea with the toggle is not very clear to me yet.  Or do you think about having the original "move" to be an "attack command" when clicking to the ground?
Then we will have a problem to move fighters in a battle, because they would stay in attack mode as long as there is an enemy in range. So we would need a new way to give a command like "move without attack".

Personally, I agree with replacing the original "move" to be an "attack" command. I see so few situations where "move" is advantageous that I'd just have all buildings set to deploy attacking units in "attack" mode (the ones that can attack. Also, units which mine, harvest or repair should still do this when deployed to gold/ stone, wood or a building respectively).
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andy_5995

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Re: Re: toggle auto-attack mode
« Reply #6 on: 24 February 2017, 04:50:08 »
Personally, I agree with replacing the original "move" to be an "attack" command. I see so few situations where "move" is advantageous that I'd just have all buildings set to deploy attacking units in "attack" mode (the ones that can attack.

Agreed.

Quote
Also, units which mine, harvest or repair should still do this when deployed to gold/ stone, wood or a building respectively).

This I didn't understand. Workers do start mining when deployed to resource. What am I missing now, Jammy? :)

jammyjamjamman

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Re: Re: toggle auto-attack mode
« Reply #7 on: 24 February 2017, 13:11:02 »
This I didn't understand. Workers do start mining when deployed to resource. What am I missing now, Jammy? :)

Oops err... Looks like I didn't complete this statement!
I meant this should not be changed.
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titi

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Re: Re: toggle auto-attack mode
« Reply #8 on: 1 March 2017, 09:54:11 »
The more I think about this the more I think its a bad idea. For example the indian archers. If they spawn in attack mode and enemy is near, the stay inside their tent adn shoot. This will look dumb, a catapult shot would kill them all inside the tent and the player has problem to see them and maybe control them. Attacking indian stickfighters also make some noise which would be very annoying if you are not attacked.
Thinking about this I tend to vote to keep it as it is.
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-Archmage-

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Re: Re: toggle auto-attack mode
« Reply #9 on: 1 March 2017, 16:49:47 »
The more I think about this the more I think its a bad idea. For example the indian archers. If they spawn in attack mode and enemy is near, the stay inside their tent adn shoot. This will look dumb, a catapult shot would kill them all inside the tent and the player has problem to see them and maybe control them. Attacking indian stickfighters also make some noise which would be very annoying if you are not attacked.
Thinking about this I tend to vote to keep it as it is.

After the archers are done attacking they would walk out to where the attack arrow is pointing. All this would change is they would fight back before going to rally point, instead of after.
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titi

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I think just switching units to attack mode based on whether they are attacked might fix the problem.
Think about persian or magic workers, those would start to auto attack if produced.
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This would also resolve units getting hit from outside their site range and just sitting there until they die.
No this would not fix this "problem". And its not a problem its a desired feature! This happens when attackers attack range is bigger then view range of the one beeing attacked. So if you think its a bug its more a data bug. For me its fun to kill cudgel ladies with archers and they cannot see me :D . ( This is offtopic here. If there is need to discuss this further, please open a new topic in general megaglest forum section )

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-Archmage-

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Think about persian or magic workers, those would start to auto attack if produced.

This would mean that the base is under attack, so you probably want them to fight if enemies are that close to your main building.
And even then, I said "switching units to attack mode based on whether they are attacked". So the workers wouldn't switch unless they were hit by something.
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andy_5995

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With multi-building select now, it's quite a bit easier to change the meeting points on many barracks quickly, so I see this as less of a problem now.

If my base is under attack, sometimes I want my fire-archers to go behind the round tent before they start attacking.

I'm not sure about this feature anymore, but it's a good discussion.

GunChleoc

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How about having them attack when they are a minimum distance away from the building?

thiemo

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I can see the pros and the cons. Personally I was rather affected by the losses as described by the initial post. However, would it be possible to have a building setting that can be switched on/off? Following two "implementations" come to my mind.
a) An additional switch in the building which affects the mode the new unit is in when leaving the building. Default (switched off) might be "move"; switched on shall be "attack".
b) Two meeting point flags of which only one can be set at a time. One makes the new units just move to the meeting point, the other makes them maraud to the meeting point.

I can even see the point in having a third mode where new units sneak to the meeting point, trying to avoid confrontations. I. e. if the unit gets to see an enemy unit, it tries to navigate around it like around an obstacle but with a radius around the closest enemy field equal to the sight range + 1 of the new unit. I assume here the new unit does not know about the sight range of the enemy unit. This seems to me quite natural since they are rookie units.

 

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