Author Topic: Proposed changes to Magic  (Read 1465 times)

biel

  • Battlemage
  • **
  • Posts: 40
    • View Profile
Proposed changes to Magic
« on: 20 January 2017, 00:06:24 »
Magic is underpowered. And no, I'm not basing it only in the fact that the AI loses every single game in the same conditions. I get it. Magic is a different kind of faction an the AI just does not know how to play it.
Doing maths you can see that the power of the faction is just lower than, lets say Tech. (And tech is not overpowered by any means)
I could create an algorithm that calculates the perfect strategy that takes into account all factors from the faction plus some of the map and environment. In fact, i will do that and post the results in another post.
But for now, I would like to know if the project managers are open to balance changes in the tech tree.
If it is the case I could come up with a set of changes that can then be revised and approved or rejected independently.
I keep in mind that magic is a special kind of faction and that giving it more power doesn't mean converting it into mass producing unit factory.
Proposed changes:
1 - As an initial idea, I would increase the building speed of the initiate. This would give the faction the possibility to build new bases quickly. To avoid this messing with the initial base establishment, it could be applied through an upgrade (that would be original since there is no upgrade like that in the game, but the game is capable of doing this). It could be added into the energy sharpening upgrade.
Think of this. Because they build things magically, it makes sense that they are fast doing so.

2 - Also, magic initiates are the only worker units that can attack. The attack effect is cool and all of that, but in practice they are pretty useless. I would not buff them enough to make of them a useful offensive unit, but I would make the effect of the attack noticeable. A quick fix would be making the effects of the energy sharpening upgrade affect the initiate as well.

If the community and the mg team agrees with that, I can make a pull request to megaglest-data on github with the changes.

titi

  • MegaGlest Team
  • Airship
  • ********
  • Posts: 4,240
    • View Profile
    • http://www.titusgames.de
Re: Proposed changes to Magic
« Reply #1 on: 20 January 2017, 00:28:13 »
Did yo try latest development version?  Filux made many changes to the magic faciton and added hints for the AI too, so it should be better now.
Try Megaglest! Improved Engine / New factions / New tilesets / New maps / New scenarios

biel

  • Battlemage
  • **
  • Posts: 40
    • View Profile
Re: Proposed changes to Magic
« Reply #2 on: 2 November 2017, 16:35:54 »
I'm reviving this with a very concrete proposal:
  • Initiate upgrade (Summoner's guild): (Affects: Initiate) +250% build speed, +30% walk speed, +50% repair speed, +50 Damage (Requires Hell Gate)
  • Hell gate (Library): (Affects: Daemon, Ghost armor, Evil Dragon) Damage +50, Armor +20 (Cost: +50 gold, +50 stone)

Currently, nobody is playing magic (not even advanced players who know how to play it), and this could shake the meta a bit and encourage players to use it. This could give it just the push it needs without losing its strategic and high skill essence.

Golkombie

  • Battlemage
  • **
  • Posts: 42
    • View Profile
Re: Proposed changes to Magic
« Reply #3 on: 8 November 2017, 00:39:29 »
The problem I see with Magic is that once they start losing, they start losing hard. Attrition hits magic like a truck, since Magic has very high inefficiency in converting its production to military.

Instead of buffing Initiates, I would either decrease the cost of Battlemages through an upgrade or allow an upgrade to directly produce Battlemages.
Both of these would lessen the burden on a Magic player towards the lategame and any losses occurred. Personally, I favor having an upgrade to allow the direction production of Battlemages; this would lower the micromanagement required to manage both the economy and the army.
To be honest, I'm just honest..

andy_5995

  • Moderator
  • Ornithopter
  • ********
  • Posts: 478
  • Debian Linux user
    • View Profile
    • Andy Alt's home page
Re: Proposed changes to Magic
« Reply #4 on: 22 December 2017, 01:41:03 »
Jammy and I are working on this. If anyone wants to share an idea or suggestion, let us know here or open a ticket on the GitHub repo

Here are the changes so far:

Code: [Select]
diff --git a/techs/megapack/factions/magic/units/battlemage/battlemage.xml b/techs/megapack/factions/magic/units/battlemage/battlemage.xml
index 4cab871a..6f58bbe9 100644
--- a/techs/megapack/factions/magic/units/battlemage/battlemage.xml
+++ b/techs/megapack/factions/magic/units/battlemage/battlemage.xml
@@ -9,7 +9,7 @@
  <armor value="30"/>
  <armor-type value="leather"/>
  <sight value="12"/>
- <time value="75"/>
+ <time value="50"/>
  <multi-selection value="true"/>
  <cellmap value="false"/>
  <levels>
@@ -24,7 +24,9 @@
  <unit-requirements/>
  <upgrade-requirements/>
  <resource-requirements>
- <resource name="gold" amount="75"/>
+ <resource name="gold" amount="150"/>
+ <resource name="stone" amount="25"/>
+ <resource name="wood" amount="50"/>
  <resource name="energy" amount="1"/>
  </resource-requirements>
  <resources-stored/>
diff --git a/techs/megapack/factions/magic/units/energy_source/energy_source.xml b/techs/megapack/factions/magic/units/energy_source/energy_source.xml
index 497f418d..bd924a45 100644
--- a/techs/megapack/factions/magic/units/energy_source/energy_source.xml
+++ b/techs/megapack/factions/magic/units/energy_source/energy_source.xml
@@ -10,7 +10,8 @@
  <armor-type value="stone"/>
  <sight value="5" />
  <time value="50" />
- <multi-selection value="false"/>
+ <multi-selection value="true"/>
+        <uniform-selection value="true"/>
  <cellmap value="false"/>
  <levels/>
  <fields>
@@ -33,7 +34,7 @@
  <resources-stored/>
  <image path="images/energy_source.bmp"/>
  <image-cancel path="../archmage/images/magic_cancel.bmp"/>
- <meeting-point value="false"/>
+ <meeting-point value="true" image-path="../mage_tower/images/meeting_point.bmp"/>
  <selection-sounds enabled="true">
  <sound path="../archmage_tower/sounds/magic_click.wav"/>
  </selection-sounds>
@@ -60,6 +61,9 @@
  <anim-speed value="100" />
  <animation path="models/energy_source.g3d" />
  <sound enabled="false" />
+            <particles value="true">
+                ‎‎ <particle-file path="particle_beam_idle.xml" />
+            </particles>
  </skill>
  <skill>
  <type value="die" />
@@ -73,6 +77,29 @@
  </sound>
  <fade value="false"/>
  </skill>
+ <skill>
+ <type value="produce" />
+ <name value="produce_skill"/>
+ <ep-cost value="0" />
+ <speed value="300" />
+ <anim-speed value="300" />
+ <animation path="models/energy_source.g3d" />
+ <sound enabled="false" />
+            <particles value="true">
+                ‎‎<particle-file path="particle_beam.xml"/>
+                <particle-file path="particle_ball.xml"/>
+            </particles>
+ </skill>
  </skills>
- <commands/>
+ <commands>
+ <command>
+ <type value="produce"/>
+ <name value="produce_battlemage" />
+ <image path="../battlemage/images/battlemage.bmp"/>
+ <unit-requirements/>
+ <upgrade-requirements/>
+ <produce-skill value="produce_skill"/>
+ <produced-unit name="battlemage"/>
+ </command>
+ </commands>
 </unit>
diff --git a/techs/megapack/factions/magic/units/initiate/initiate.xml b/techs/megapack/factions/magic/units/initiate/initiate.xml
index 7afdec1e..f54ecf38 100644
--- a/techs/megapack/factions/magic/units/initiate/initiate.xml
+++ b/techs/megapack/factions/magic/units/initiate/initiate.xml
@@ -9,7 +9,7 @@
  <armor value="0"/>
  <armor-type value="leather"/>
  <sight value="9"/>
- <time value="40"/>
+ <time value="75"/>
  <multi-selection value="true"/>
  <cellmap value="false"/>
  <levels/>
@@ -79,7 +79,7 @@
  <type value="move"/>
  <name value="move_skill"/>
  <ep-cost value="0"/>
- <speed value="150"/>
+ <speed value="250"/>
  <anim-speed value="130"/>
  <animation path="models/initiate_walking.g3d"/>
  <sound enabled="false"/>
@@ -326,7 +326,7 @@
  <resource name="gold"/>
  <resource name="stone"/>
  </harvested-resources>
- <max-load value="20"/>
+ <max-load value="25"/>
  <hits-per-unit value="1"/>
  </command>
  <command>
@@ -345,15 +345,5 @@
  <max-load value="20"/>
  <hits-per-unit value="1"/>
  </command>
- <command>
- <type value="morph"/>
- <name value="promote_to_battlemage"/>
- <image path="../battlemage/images/battlemage.bmp"/>
- <unit-requirements/>
- <upgrade-requirements/>
- <morph-skill value="morph_skill"/>
- <morph-unit name= "battlemage"/>
- <discount value="0"/>
- </command>
  </commands>
 </unit>
diff --git a/techs/megapack/factions/magic/units/mage_tower/mage_tower.xml b/techs/megapack/factions/magic/units/mage_tower/mage_tower.xml
index b0abb37f..a4d11589 100644
--- a/techs/megapack/factions/magic/units/mage_tower/mage_tower.xml
+++ b/techs/megapack/factions/magic/units/mage_tower/mage_tower.xml
@@ -31,9 +31,9 @@
  <unit-requirements/>
  <upgrade-requirements/>
  <resource-requirements>
- <resource name="gold" amount="150"/>
- <resource name="stone" amount="350"/>
- <resource name="wood" amount="50"/>
+ <resource name="gold" amount="250"/>
+ <resource name="stone" amount="250"/>
+ <resource name="wood" amount="100"/>
  </resource-requirements>
  <resources-stored>
  <resource name= "gold" amount="1800"/>

andy_5995

  • Moderator
  • Ornithopter
  • ********
  • Posts: 478
  • Debian Linux user
    • View Profile
    • Andy Alt's home page
Re: Proposed changes to Magic
« Reply #5 on: 22 December 2017, 03:08:13 »
It was quite a battle!