Author Topic: main buildings always face south when game starts  (Read 892 times)

andy_5995

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main buildings always face south when game starts
« on: 4 March 2017, 12:09:34 »
I realized that many, if not all, of the "Top vs Bottom" maps are "uneven". The player on top will always have the advantage. Even if the "top to bottom" mirror function of the map editor is used. Here is one reason:

Quote
<andy_5995> do you remember that time I played a game against Damned?
<andy_5995> we played on the "fight for your golden right" map
<andy_5995> you were an observer.
<david123> hmm
<andy_5995> After I beat him, he said, "this map is uneven"
<david123> yes
<david123> I remember
<andy_5995> I just now realized.. he was correct.
<andy_5995> because at the bottom, the main building faces south
<andy_5995> so his workers have to walk more distance than mine
<andy_5995> to build outward, my workers can exit my main building and don't have to walk around the main
<david123> Maybe just his gold is far more?
<david123> I think I understand you
<andy_5995> for the bottom player, to build outward, the workers have to travel the distance of the height of the pyramid
<andy_5995> Yes, Imagine if each player starts out with the same amount of resources and can begin building immediately...
<andy_5995> The top player can build defenses in front of his base much more quickly
<david123> I think we should turn it to Titi
<andy_5995> The bottom player would always have to send his workers to the other side of his main base to build "in front".

As for the mirror function of the map editor, on a top vs bottom map, a true mirror doesn't take place unless the gold and stone is at the sides. If the gold for the top players is two spaces below the starting position, after the mirror, the gold will be 2 spaces above the players in the bottom positions.

When the game starts, the workers at the bottom position exit from the south of the main building, and have to travel the distance of the height of the main building.

This issue may not be much of a concern in a human vs CPU game, but more of a problem in a human vs human game.

Even if the gold and stone were put at the sides during the making of the map.. the trees near the base would have to be manually moved to create a "true" mirror.

But that still wouldn't solve the imbalance talked about by David and myself (above). To build "outward", the bottom workers have to travel further because they exit from the "bottom" and have to go "up".

One possible solution? A value hard-coded into the map that say "This is a top v bottom map. Rotate the buildings 180 degrees when starting the game. Also, the appropriate code in MG to interpret that value.

I opened GitHub ticket 156 to track this.
« Last Edit: 4 March 2017, 12:19:42 by andy_5995 »

Omega

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Re: main buildings always face south when game starts
« Reply #1 on: 13 March 2017, 01:57:32 »
Quote
One possible solution? A value hard-coded into the map that say "This is a top v bottom map. Rotate the buildings 180 degrees when starting the game. Also, the appropriate code in MG to interpret that value.

A more generally helpful approach would probably be to have the players on the map have a few extra options. Namely the direction that the main building should face (hence allowing for similar with left/right, etc). Problem, however, is that buildings in mods don't really have a well defined rotation. That's totally up to the mod maker.

There may be other interesting things a map could suggest to players, making such an approach extensible.
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titi

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Re: main buildings always face south when game starts
« Reply #2 on: 14 March 2017, 09:34:25 »
1.  this is no bug but a feature request!

I did not look into the code yet, but if its possible its a good idea.
This must be carefully added to not break old things.

Here some things to think about :
- willl this break map compatibility ?
- Player position can have a direction ( default is current behaviour )
- if direction should be editable in map editor and it should be shown in editor.
- the unit placement logic in the game code must get a new "facing" parameter.
- I think that the default facing of every single building should still be "south" as this is what the models are designed for. They don't look that good from hte backside.

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Coldfusionstorm

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Re: main buildings always face south when game starts
« Reply #3 on: 23 March 2017, 21:06:45 »
1.  this is no bug but a feature request!

I did not look into the code yet, but if its possible its a good idea.
This must be carefully added to not break old things.

Here some things to think about :
- willl this break map compatibility ?
- Player position can have a direction ( default is current behaviour )
- if direction should be editable in map editor and it should be shown in editor.
- the unit placement logic in the game code must get a new "facing" parameter.
- I think that the default facing of every single building should still be "south" as this is what the models are designed for. They don't look that good from hte backside.

Titi, This -IS- a bug, in the sense that one player has such a clear advantage over another.
This should -REALLY- be fixed.
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