Author Topic: Discussion about Resource Modifiers  (Read 4311 times)

Ishmaru

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Discussion about Resource Modifiers
« on: 17 June 2011, 02:08:42 »
Hi just wanted to go over some various ideas/opinions surrounding resource multipliers.

Why are resource multipliers considered and advanced option?
I don't understand why this is a hidden option especially considering all Ai options rely on multipliers (somewhat i know mega is also more aggressive but its base multiplier is still 3x). Customization is key to making matches more interesting, plus fine tuning settings around player skill.  Also might make game more approachable toward new players since they can make it easier or harder by a little bit instead of jumping to next level cpu. Why not just show multiplier from start?
If no difference between Ai how bout just cpu and cpu mega with multipliers in custom game?

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titi

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Re: Discussion about Resource Modifiers
« Reply #1 on: 17 June 2011, 09:08:31 »
There are differences between the cpus beside the multiplier!
I think just cpu and cpu-ultra are still the same. these were kept for backward compatibility reasons and because they are more speaking to beginners.
In fact we have: cpu-easy , cpu and cpu-mega which have different behaviour.

some of the things the mega cpu does:

- production balancing: Maybe you saw that an ultra has ordered more than 20 units in one building. This will not happen with mega.  It will balance the production for all available buildings which can produce the unit. If all of them have 2 production orders already, the mega tries to build a new building of this kind.

- bigger armies: The army size of the mega which is used to attack is more variable and can be bigger too

- don't abort production to attack: if for example a summoner is producing a ghost armore the production is not aborted to attack the enemy. This happens to normal cpu very often

... and more

for the cpu-easy: I don't remember exactly how I crippled its behaviour, but its definitly playing bad  ;D

About the initial thought on the multiplier not shownig in normal state:
I personally also wasn't that happy with hiding it, but this custom game setup is already quite complicated for people who start Megaglest the first time. But if many other people think too its ok to show the multiplier by default I will change this  :)
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Ishmaru

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Re: Discussion about Resource Modifiers
« Reply #2 on: 18 June 2011, 04:23:29 »
I see. i just asked because I thought you were going to hide ultra in custom game.

Perhaps there should be an option in options menu to have "advance options always on" or at least resource multipliers, and have it initially set to off when first installed.
This will make it less overwhelming to newbies and have convenience for experienced players.

Also why do humans not have the ability to add resource multipliers to themselves?
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ElimiNator

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Re: Discussion about Resource Modifiers
« Reply #3 on: 18 June 2011, 05:01:04 »
Because that would be cheating!  :o
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Re: Discussion about Resource Modifiers
« Reply #4 on: 18 June 2011, 05:28:09 »
Because that would be cheating!  :o
It could still be interesting in a single player game. Rather than decreasing what your opponents get, increase what you get, so that you can produce more units faster, etc... In fact, now that I think of it, it could be a very fun feature, and as long as used properly and not hidden, it would even be fine in multiplayer. Make that a feature request!
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ultifd

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Re: Discussion about Resource Modifiers
« Reply #5 on: 18 June 2011, 08:43:38 »
Because that would be cheating!  :o
It could still be interesting in a single player game. Rather than decreasing what your opponents get, increase what you get, so that you can produce more units faster, etc... In fact, now that I think of it, it could be a very fun feature, and as long as used properly and not hidden, it would even be fine in multiplayer. Make that a feature request!
No thanks, if we wanted that we wouldn't have removed that in the first place. Could be evolved into something more, but now is not the time.
Perhaps there should be an option in options menu to have "advance options always on" or at least resource multipliers, and have it initially set to off when first installed.
This will make it less overwhelming to newbies and have convenience for experienced players.
Well, that would be nice. I think the resource multipliers and the observer mode should always be on or they should be on by default, though.

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Re: Discussion about Resource Modifiers
« Reply #6 on: 19 June 2011, 07:03:16 »
Why not make it so it affects all players? It does sound really fun.

ultifd

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Re: Discussion about Resource Modifiers
« Reply #7 on: 19 June 2011, 07:31:18 »
If the value could be same for every single human, I suppose that would be better...but I still wouldn't really like it for the same reasons. Well, it's up to titi.

Ishmaru

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Re: Discussion about Resource Modifiers
« Reply #8 on: 19 June 2011, 16:28:22 »
Ok lets not fight about this, If we need to stabilize first then lets stabilize, i know there is a lot of bugs caused with HUD and Will's patches. That being said lets just discuss this as a future feature:

But as for my opinion GLEST as a whole (both gae and megaglest) is about customization, Glest's modability is its best selling point. And why is that? Because of customization, play the way you (player) wants! Dont like midevil Knights vs wizards, then Play with aliens, or modern military, or demons and angels, if none of this pleases you you can create your own, in a way far easier than any other RTS.

Now this is matters because customizing resource modifiers is yet another way we could customize your experence as a player. Ever thought it will be fun to play 3 v 1 player game where 1 one man army gets a huge multiplayer bonus and other players have to struggle and work together to defend themselves vs an massive and relentless wave of invaders?? Sure you could set the big guy as a cpu player, but woulden't it also be fun to play the role as the massive evil army, and do it against real players? Can this be fair? Of course if that was the intent of all the players, can this be abused? Yea it could but it will be the same if finding that one unit that has the best firepower for its cost and just spamming that one unit. Should we remove the unit all together?

If we do wana make this fair, what kind of methods could we use to have this feature an not allow people to cheat in serious megaglest games?

1)
Why not make it so it affects all players? It does sound really fun.

2) Make multipliers only editable to host player. In my eyes the host (initiator) of a game is like the game master for D&D he should make the rules for his and his fellow players.

3) have a toggleable option for Official Mode or Custom mode so players could customize there experience but know how the game was originally intended to be played.

Any other ideas welcome!

« Last Edit: 19 June 2011, 16:30:31 by Ishmaru »
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Re: Discussion about Resource Modifiers
« Reply #9 on: 21 June 2011, 02:34:04 »
Off-topic discussions in this thread have been moved to https://forum.megaglest.org/index.php?topic=7295.0.

 

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